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Destroyer_KuroshioKai

How to Shimakaze

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I promised a replay to a few players here, rather than send it directly to them, I decided to open it up to the forums in general as I know a lot of people struggle with Shima and IJN DDs in general.  So here's a lesson plan broken down in the manner I do when teaching CUTE members. 

For starters good DD work is never about damage.  It's all about winning vision control and cap control.  Damage is secondary.  Let the damage come to you, by chasing damage you take far more damage and lose the ability to influence battle in the later stages.

1.  Your game starts with MMing screen.  As a DD I really only care about if its a CV game, the number and types of enemy radars, and the number and type of DDs.  Everything else is food.  Take the time to play out a few likely enemy positions for those strategic ships, and come up with your game plan.

2.  In this game I spawn far west with a Minotaur.  I use this to my favor by communicating with the rando Mino telling him I'll smoke him up at A.  This helps him as A cap is lacking in cover and by using my smoke concealment allows him to really dump a lot of support on A cap.  It also helps conceal him from the enemy CV creating an AA trap.  Regarding smoking a CA up, leave room for their smoke detection firing limits (you do have that memorized dont you?) as well as room for them to disengage safely.  You do that by using the combined fire power to drive enemy DDs beyond his spotting range.  Notice I dont pop speed boost right away.  Your boost is best used to evade damage when possible.  By rushing ahead, particularly in a CV game you over extend and are easy prey.  Play patient, and to your strengths.

3.  First contact.  Prior to smoking I ping the RPF bearing for my Mino buddy.  Get your team focused on targets the best you can.  Call targets on critical things you have spotted, like DDs, radar CAs, etc.  The enemy CV sent two fighters to scout deep at A.  I end up spotted, but my Mino buddy goes to work on them.  I pause to enter cap at this time as I dont have smoke.  For those wondering, I was clumsy activating my AA as I was playing with my 9 month old Son on my lap and he was trying to eat my keyboard.  Again.  My Dinosaurs as they are known in CUTE love this game.  Anyways, I see an opening when the enemy CV flys the fighter west out of my detection range I enter cap.  Cap shortly is contested afterwards.  With my preparations of a smoked up CL and other support near me it is to my advantage to push the cap rather than stall.  I find an enemy offender, a Shimakaze.  Like many IJN DD players, he plays very passive, in contrast to how aggressive I am with the guns.  The team and I drive the Shimakaze off.

4.  At 17:14 I have a decision to make.  Looking at the mini map we should get A, and an enemy Gearing appears to be headed for B cap where my team has nothing to contest him.  Repositioning to B denys a potential flanking enemy DD getting the side of my team mates and prevents an enemy cap.

5.  Engaging the red Gearing.  Watching the Gearing I am positive his intention is to trade shots with our Yue Yang then cap B.  The Gearing ends up hugging the island between A and B, and I pre fire torps on the corner.  The first two sets is if the enemy Gearing goes wide, the third right and the corner.   Notice how I position myself for this fight.  I am bow neutral away to the Gearing with a decent amount of speed to open the engagement range, with my guns on target ready to kite him.  This is the position you need to be successful in winning fights consistently vs US type DDs.  Unfortunately the Gearing ate a torp as I started the fight with him, so the fight was cut short.  It does display the reason why you use everything at your disposal to fight enemy DDs that torp saved me 5-10k hp to use later.  Killing a DD is far more critical than dev striking two random BBs IMO.  Not losing much HP here let me push C pretty aggressively.

6.  At 15:00 I am pushing cautiously to C cap where the bulk of the enemy is.  I am thinking of launching harassment torps north of C, but on the mini map I see two DDs with last position shown as heading towards me.  Notice I slow down and turn my guns.  I am preparing for another DD fight.  This moment is critical for any IJN DD player.  Never push while your guns are rotating.

7.  The pause in advance and my mini map awareness pays off.  I am pushed by an enemy gearing at 14:35.  Notice my position this time.  I am slightly bow into him, my guns haven't quite made the turn and my speed is much slower as I'm speeding up from preparing for combat.  I bait the enemy DD to shoot by shooting him.  Once he does I smoke quickly to limit damage.  This stage of the fight is in the Gearing's favor as its sub 5km.  I want to be outside of 7km.  I smoke to break contact, repair my engine to prepare to kite him, but just as I am getting ready to abandon the smoke I notice the Gearing is not smoking himself up, and is indecisive about rushing my smoke, and in trouble .  I am able to stay in my smoke and win a very good trade against this DD as I planned ahead by having tools available to stack the odds in my favor thanks to team mates giving me vision on the Gearing.  Had the fight drug on I am pretty sure I could win the fight, but at the cost of a lot of HP due to my poor position at the start of the fight.  Only fight when you have the advantage.

8.  After the second Gearing engagement, the rest of the game is greedy farming as we have won the game.

The game isnt clean.  There are a few things I could have done better, but it does show how a Shimakaze is able to deal with other DDs when fighting for caps.  I will keep trying to get a replay showing how I gun down DDs when all of the preparation, and vision games fail.  I have just had bad luck with DDs not wanting to fight me recently. 

Any comments and questions?

Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
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2 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

For starters good DD work is never about damage.  It's all about winning vision control and cap control.  Damage is secondary

Um no.. Good post but I beg to differ, at least inasmuch as they are equal. Spotting, cap control and damage.

As well, a DD in the late game is x 5 it's worth at the beginning if you are smart enough to survive. Shimakaze (the only DD I play since the nerfs) players learn this or they don't do well.

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32 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Um no.. Good post but I beg to differ, at least inasmuch as they are equal. Spotting, cap control and damage.

As well, a DD in the late game is x 5 it's worth at the beginning if you are smart enough to survive. Shimakaze (the only DD I play since the nerfs) players learn this or they don't do well.

Please refer to any competitive format.  A DDs primary role is vision and cap control.  Damage is very much a secondary objective.  This is established fact.

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8 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Please refer to any competitive format.  A DDs primary role is vision and cap control.  Damage is very much a secondary objective.  This is established fact.

Again I beg to differ. I did not say damage is more important, but in a Shimakaze it is your ultimate goal, equal to spotting and capping.

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14 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

Again I beg to differ. I did not say damage is more important, but in a Shimakaze it is your ultimate goal, equal to spotting and capping.

I could argue about it, but I'm in the middle of a scrimmage for KOTS.  We will have to agree to disagree.

 

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2 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I could argue about it, but I'm in the middle of a scrimmage for KOTS.  We will have to agree to disagree.

lol, fair.

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The problem with the Shimakaze is that Torpedoes are supposed to be it's greatest strengths -- 15 tubes, large caliber and long range. But, in fact, torpedoes are the Shimakaze's greatest weakness. Your torpedoes are detected 2~3x further than any other DDs torpedoes -- 2.5km seriously? Your torpedoes take the longest to reload. Your spreads are the widest and most likely to leave gaps for the enemy ships to squeak between. Sure they do a little more damage and one version can go a long way, but that is not any good if you don't hit anything and it takes forever to reload for your next salvo. You here you have a big DD with average concealment that is not the fastest, doesn't have hydro or radar and whose guns are slow to turn and slow to fire, and you have arguably the WORST TORPEDOES in the game.

Can you play the Shimakaze and be effective and win? Sure you can. But the Shimakaze is also the worst Tier X DD. I know I have the Shima, the Z52, the Gearing and the Yueyang. Everyone of those other DDs will do the things the Shima can do, and do them better. I'll take a Tier VIII HSR Harekaze over a Shima in a Tier X game!

Edited by dwightlooi
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3 hours ago, dwightlooi said:

The problem with the Shimakaze is that Torpedoes are supposed to be it's greatest strengths -- 15 tubes, large caliber and long range. But, in fact, torpedoes are the Shimakaze's greatest weakness. Your torpedoes are detected 2~3x further than any other DDs torpedoes -- 2.5km seriously? Your torpedoes take the longest to reload. Your spreads are the widest and most likely to leave gaps for the enemy ships to squeak between. Sure they do a little more damage and one version can go a long way, but that is not any good if you don't hit anything and it takes forever to reload for your next salvo. You here you have a big DD with average concealment that is not the fastest, doesn't have hydro or radar and whose guns are slow to turn and slow to fire, and you have arguably the WORST TORPEDOES in the game.

Can you play the Shimakaze and be effective and win? Sure you can. But the Shimakaze is also the worst Tier X DD. I know I have the Shima, the Z52, the Gearing and the Yueyang. Everyone of those other DDs will do the things the Shima can do, and do them better. I'll take a Tier VIII HSR Harekaze over a Shima in a Tier X game!

Why must we persist with the non sense that one MUST use the 20km torps?

Torps that WG broke intentionally to try to break up the long range torp spam that piss poor IJN DD players were resorting to.  Using those torps of course you are going to feel the torps are a liability, WG wants you to use different ones.  I have long been a proponent of removing the 20km torps all together.  I would consider that a buff to Shima, because it would force players into the more viable options, and players shouldnt have to free XP to get to viable weapons.

Regarding torp detection, Gearing torps at 1.4km and 12km Shima torps at 1.7km are similar enough that they make little difference hitting BBs.  The higher detection is needed to give CAs and DDs a chance at not eating torps or eating less torps was a balance decision.  Its that way because of the third quintuple launcher.  Remember why T8 Fubuki was so much better than T9 Kagero?  It almost always came down to the flexibility the third launcher provided.  You can see how I use it in my replay to zone out two areas making it very likely a DD would eat a torp, and later staggering the third launcher later than the first two to give myself better odds of hitting something that WASD.  With good positions even a single launcher is strong.  The real issue is the spotting planes which might be resolved in an upcoming patch. 

In my experience people that think the torps are worthless are torping from bad positions either outside 10km or at a bad aspect of the target, primarily due to wanting to avoid contact with other DDs, especially gun boats.  This is a result of players not having confidence in their guns and not knowing how to fight other DDs.  Its been a common theme in low tier IJN DDs where people here would recommend forgetting you have guns.  These players take these lessons to higher tiers and begin to fail as their boats are balanced on a certain level of gun usage.  They end up hiding as they refuse to contest good torp launch positions. 

Regarding torp reload it takes Gearing/Yue Yang roughly 10.4 seconds per torp.  Shimakaze is 7.8 seconds per torp.  The difference is the third launcher.  The only thing that gets close is a torp spec Z-52 a known torp spammer.  Are you really arguing Shima cant put out as many torps as other T10 DDs?  Stop launching waves at single ships.

The fact is Shimakaze can win fights consistently against Gearing and Yue Yang if you do your part and fight smart.  The only real struggles to fight would be any Russian DD and a smoked/hydroing Z-52 or 46. 

The T10 DDs are pretty balanced IMO.  One is always going to be "worst", but the real issue is if its usable or not.  Most of the time it comes down to if the play style of a particular boat fits how you want to play.  Them not playing how you want doesnt make them bad boats.  Trying to force them to do so makes you a bad player.

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image.thumb.png.fe8e38455819fd709a07f7843a630110.png

A screenshot of a properly angled Shimakaze. 

A secret to IJN DDs and fighting at ranges where shells land on your deck instead of hitting your hull is the number of turrets, torp tubes, and AA mounts covering common hit areas such as your stern, superstructure, etc.  These modules will often adsorb the damage saving you HP.  Your HP pool is very deceiving when you take this into account.  It is a major reason why you want to open the range in a DD fight.  Also note how narrow Shimakaze is over her rivals.  Angling works much better for her than the others.

Compare to Yue Yang and Gearing:

image.thumb.png.032bdf05cb6df569c485826bacf41a22.png

image.thumb.png.00eaadc59b58f0973d8605683243544b.png

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An almost clean game focusing support and cap control.

This game shows the symbiotic relationship that exists between a DD and its support.  This game was more about me smoking for allies, spotting for them, and contesting and controlling caps.

Its a reason why this 1v1 DD fight stuff is complete nonsense.  It might make your E Peen larger, but it wont win you any games.

shot-18.04.21_12.55.03-0955.jpg

shot-18.04.21_12.55.07-0606.jpg

shot-18.04.21_12.55.13-0986.jpg

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Watched the first replay, the only thing I would have done differently, is at the end of the game, I would not shoot at that half dead Montana without smoke or going at faster speed (I ate too many double pens from Montanas that took like 80%hp from me).

Still, I am glad that I am not too aggressive than I though I was. Lately, I actively engage enemy dds, but maybe I need to consider my surroundings more like CA support.

I am also considering using F3s to better kill dds, but radars really limit them even though they are so fun.

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results.thumb.png.d185287396c04d056b698b6dffa2ec18.png

Even a properly played shima can help a DesMoines have a good game.

The relationship between DD and Cruiser is very important to control the part of the map you are both working.

Kuro did a fantastic job in this match allowing me to position and deal as much damage as possible while taking none in return.

 

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Win some lose some

This replay the team was destined to lose.  Everything from AFK CV and a T10 DD to suicidal CAs.  I wasnt planning on smoking the CAs, thought our Gearing that wasnt really going into the cap was going to smoke them.  The funny randos will get you every time.  At the last minute I just pop mine so they would have something.  First contact has a really good example of a hit and run engagement on a Fletcher right at the start shaving about 20% of his HP off right at the start at the cost of less than 2k to me.  Guys, dont torp when you should be shooting.  Anyways the short 2-3 volley fights against US DDs heavily favor IJN DDs.  My plan was to ambush a DD in cap get my shots in as I headed for cover to lock in my HP trade. 

I torp my third DD of the day.  It is normal for me to torp that many DDs when playing any DD nation including IJN.  The IJN torps are fine. 

I try to stop the middle push by an enemy Gearing.  During the Gearing fight I take an unexpected hit from the Alsace to my South, and that forces me to play more cautiously.  Fortunately the red gearing loses his mind when he spots the AFK CV and gets farmed.  Here I guess you can see how much more consistent IJN DD guns are at range  than US DD guns.

In the end its just not enough though.  I end the fight trying to reset cap, but the game was decided a while ago.  Strangely my observations is I do far more damage in losses than I do on wins.  Most likely due to the fact I am defending and that favors DDs.  None of these are my best games.

Things I might have done different to win?

Maybe lead a push to the enemy home cap?  Not really the best option as our east flank completely fell apart at the start.  I'm iffy on that making the D into a W with how fast their Gearing pushed our home cap.

Improving stats wise, might have been better to chase the Iowa south to try to get more damage and just accept the loss then.

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56 minutes ago, Vaitmana said:

Watched the first replay, the only thing I would have done differently, is at the end of the game, I would not shoot at that half dead Montana without smoke or going at faster speed (I ate too many double pens from Montanas that took like 80%hp from me).

Still, I am glad that I am not too aggressive than I though I was. Lately, I actively engage enemy dds, but maybe I need to consider my surroundings more like CA support.

I am also considering using F3s to better kill dds, but radars really limit them even though they are so fun.

I deemed the game won by that point and started farming.  I evade more shots moving unpredictably than I do using speed.  Particularly against good shots who know how much lead to give.

F3s work well.  I run them occasionally.  Really the only issue is when you encounter teams where the enemy team flees from you all game.  Your torps are absolutely worthless then.  That alone is the only reason I run 12km.  The 12km work just fine on DDs IME.

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1 hour ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Win some lose some

This replay the team was destined to lose.  Everything from AFK CV and a T10 DD to suicidal CAs.  I wasnt planning on smoking the CAs, thought our Gearing that wasnt really going into the cap was going to smoke them.  The funny randos will get you every time.  At the last minute I just pop mine so they would have something.  First contact has a really good example of a hit and run engagement on a Fletcher right at the start shaving about 20% of his HP off right at the start at the cost of less than 2k to me.  Guys, dont torp when you should be shooting.  Anyways the short 2-3 volley fights against US DDs heavily favor IJN DDs.  My plan was to ambush a DD in cap get my shots in as I headed for cover to lock in my HP trade. 

I torp my third DD of the day.  It is normal for me to torp that many DDs when playing any DD nation including IJN.  The IJN torps are fine. 

I try to stop the middle push by an enemy Gearing.  During the Gearing fight I take an unexpected hit from the Alsace to my South, and that forces me to play more cautiously.  Fortunately the red gearing loses his mind when he spots the AFK CV and gets farmed.  Here I guess you can see how much more consistent IJN DD guns are at range  than US DD guns.

In the end its just not enough though.  I end the fight trying to reset cap, but the game was decided a while ago.  Strangely my observations is I do far more damage in losses than I do on wins.  Most likely due to the fact I am defending and that favors DDs.  None of these are my best games.

Things I might have done different to win?

Maybe lead a push to the enemy home cap?  Not really the best option as our east flank completely fell apart at the start.  I'm iffy on that making the D into a W with how fast their Gearing pushed our home cap.

Improving stats wise, might have been better to chase the Iowa south to try to get more damage and just accept the loss then.

You had great start, most of their dds dead, but then your team sort of fell apart. I would have stayed closer to the middle, maybe went to enemy base to help there. Also, that Iowa, I would have held on to the 3rd set and launched it after the first 2 hit to make sure I stick a flooding. The distance was close enough for that.

Also, I would not shoot that zao, his next target was definitely west cap, so I would pin him against that big island with torpedoes first. Sitting in smoke is not advised against him due to F3s and also, you had too low of HP, Zao HE salvo is devastating. I know it is easy to analyze replays post fact and more difficult to make decisions in actual battle, I just thought to share my... thoughts.

It is actually more interesting to see replays of lost games, where the struggle is real.

Edited by Vaitmana

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6 minutes ago, Vaitmana said:

You had great start, most of their dds dead, but then your team sort of fell apart. I would have stayed closer to the middle, maybe went to enemy base to help there. Also, that Iowa, I would have held on to the 3rd set and launched it after the first 2 hit to make sure I stick a flooding. The distance was close enough for that.

Also, I would not shoot that zao, his next target was definitely west cap, so I would pin him against that big island with torpedoes first. Sitting in smoke is not advised against him due to F3s and also, you had too low of HP, Zao HE salvo is devastating. I know it is easy to analyze replays post fact and more difficult to make decisions in actual battle, I just thought to share my... thoughts.

It is actually more interesting to see replays of lost games, where the struggle is real.

South I think would have been the only option.  I just dont think it would have changed anything.  Maybe more damage if people tried to push me.

I knew the game was lost.  I didnt want to try to pinch him on the island due to the proximity of the Hindenburg.  Honestly was hoping to bait him into shooting with in his smoke detection range, but that failed.  The final rush was just getting it over with so I could get back to port.  I did have the desired effect of stopping the cap though.

Losses are better teaching tools than wins, thats for sure.

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6 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Why must we persist with the non sense that one MUST use the 20km torps?

You don't. You CAN use the 12km torps. If you do, then you have 4.5km shorter range torps than the Gearing, your torps are still detected at a longer range than the Gearing's and they are about the same speed as the gearing's. Your guns fire at half the speed as the Gearings, you turn worse, you have the ship same detection range and your torpedoes take longer to load. OK, so you suck all around. Good luck!

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1 hour ago, dwightlooi said:

You don't. You CAN use the 12km torps. If you do, then you have 4.5km shorter range torps than the Gearing, your torps are still detected at a longer range than the Gearing's and they are about the same speed as the gearing's. Your guns fire at half the speed as the Gearings, you turn worse, you have the ship same detection range and your torpedoes take longer to load. OK, so you suck all around. Good luck!

But you forgot to mention, that you have 5 more torps than Gearing in a 3rd launcher, that your torps do 23k damage vs 18k, and that your top speed is 39 knots vs 36 of Gearing, last, but not least - gun velocity is much better. Also, shima is about to become one of the stealthiest ships in the game.

P.S. Gearing torps reload in 122.4 secs, while type92mod3s in 117 sec

Edited by Vaitmana

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On 21/04/2018 at 10:49 PM, dwightlooi said:

You don't. You CAN use the 12km torps. If you do, then you have 4.5km shorter range torps than the Gearing, your torps are still detected at a longer range than the Gearing's and they are about the same speed as the gearing's. Your guns fire at half the speed as the Gearings, you turn worse, you have the ship same detection range and your torpedoes take longer to load. OK, so you suck all around. Good luck!

This reddit reaction that a ship has X% worse stats than another automatically make a ship inferior to that ship is [edited].  Its the gaming version of getting your news by reading the head lines only.

Get to know how they work, what makes them tick.  You might be surprised by what you find.  Or just keep [edited], I dont care and its kind of funny.

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On 4/21/2018 at 8:02 AM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

It's all about winning vision control and cap control.

No-no-no! That's not how you play a Shima at all! First, at the start of the match ignore caps and sail wide on the flank. If there's a CV in play use smoke to cover yourself until danger has passed. Let DDs who are more suited for capping do the dirty work. You instead focus on doing damage to BBabies. They are at fault for all Shima's nerfs and so they must be punished.

Ignore CAs and DDs since they will just likely dodge your torps and you'll waste a salvo. No, only BBs, only hardcore. By the way, they might look like guns you have there, but they are in fact for drying wet uniforms. Don't use them, it's a fire hazard! 

Use only the 20km torpedoes, because it's what will make Shima great again and don't forget to ALWAYS fire all three sets together! Never have any in reserve, because - you guessed it - fire and explosion hazard! What if someone shoots you while you have torps loaded? Too risky!

 

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10 minutes ago, geser98 said:

No-no-no! That's not how you play a Shima at all! First, at the start of the match ignore caps and sail wide on the flank. If there's a CV in play use smoke to cover yourself until danger has passed. Let DDs who are more suited for capping do the dirty work. You instead focus on doing damage to BBabies. They are at fault for all Shima's nerfs and so they must be punished.

Ignore CAs and DDs since they will just likely dodge your torps and you'll waste a salvo. No, only BBs, only hardcore. By the way, they might look like guns you have there, but they are in fact for drying wet uniforms. Don't use them, it's a fire hazard! 

Use only the 20km torpedoes, because it's what will make Shima great again and don't forget to ALWAYS fire all three sets together! Never have any in reserve, because - you guessed it - fire and explosion hazard! What if someone shoots you while you have torps loaded? Too risky!

 

Sums up the years I've spent reading here and reddit's opions on IJN DDs.

Gold star for you.

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OP made a solid post.. then a chunk of people showed up having zero clue on how to properly play a Shima or a DD in general...

 

DD play IS about capping and spotting.   If you can hold a Cap.. and keep other DD's pushed back it gives your fleet much more room to move and press an advantage.  its another reason why Yugumo is amazing in randoms with a 5.5 detection.. can hold a cap/out spot enemy DD's all day pushing them back.

 

 

Damage is not hard to get.. it will come from doing the above.

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Call me a masochist.  Here I go again.  This game is a loss.  I had several errors, primarily in how I failed to deal with the BBs.  I was too conservative with my torps, and should have made sure I got the kills when I had the chance.  The exception is the Yamato on A cap, and my abortive torp run.  If I went through with that I would have been dead there.  I probably couldnt have won the game playing perfect, but it would have really cost them.  I was distracted much of the game by a tired and fussy Dinosaur, and that was the cause for some delayed actions, like smoking and stopping the yolo torp run on Yamato.

I really only included this replay to show a really detailed example of how [edited]survivable a well played Shimakaze is during radar and focused fire, and later gun fighting a gearing under 6km and winning the trade almost 2:1.  The real objective was to bait him into my support to preserve HP, but you can see the tactics used clearly.  During the replay I took some screenshots illustrating what I was talking about module damage and saturation.

https://replayswows.com/replay/21646#stats

shot-18_04.23_18_57.03-0198.thumb.jpg.3999e79d589787d37c47bbc742462008.jpg

  Above is an example of an AA gun saving me some HP

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There goes more AA.  IJN DD AA really does serve a purpose.

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There goes a turret, that sucks, but still saving me HP.  Notice just how saturated my stern is, as its really hard for him to hit anything but it.

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After the duel, stern almost completely saturated.  For those not aware, when you saturate an area of your ship, particularly your bow or stern you can take less damage when hit with things like HE.

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Note that while it appeared the Gearing was wrecking me, I inflicted almost double the damage than he did to me, and did so when he should have really had an advantage due to the engagement range.  This was done via evading shots, modules absorbing hits, and saturation.

I really hope this goes towards dispelling some of the myths about gun fighting in IJN DDs.

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Probably my last replay unless people want me to continue.

https://replayswows.com/replay/21656#stats

This replay is on Shatter, and due to the brawling nature of the maps means IJN DDs need to take care.  Its not a bad map for IJN DDs at all, but it can require some adjustment.  This game had little DD and radar threat, so I pretty much go ham.  I spread my torps around a lot on this map.  I only really focus a target with a full spread at the very end, and thats mainly due to the poor torp angle I had.  This strategy usually pays off pretty well as ships come though a channel and blunder into your trap. 

Exhibit one was sort of blind torped.  I got a quick glimpse of him, guesstimated speed and course and dropped blind my single reserve spread.  Its reasons like this and how often I kill DDs with torps that let me know IJN DD torps are fine.

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The game illustrates I dont really do anything different or special from my other replays.  I did spot an AFK Conqueror, and I did take a cheeky pot shot with torps, but continued to my objective as fast as I could.  Its important that DDs dont chase the easy damage when they spot an AFK ship, or in most instances a CV.  Doing so removes vision from your team and gives the enemy room to recover and react.

Regarding caps, you need to get in there.  Its ok to just dip a toe in to contest and be ready to bugger off, but it is important to your team that you do it. 

Really the key to being successful in IJN DDs is learning how to do the tasks required of almost all DDs (the Russian ones mostly excluded) and then doing them.  Smoke for team mates, spot, contest cap.  Hunt down enemy DDs, and when you get a chance get some good torps in.  Dont be desperate for damage, let it come naturally.  Watch your mini map constantly.  Learn when you can push and when you cant.  Watch your team mates.  Which way is your CA's guns turned?  Can they support you?

All of the real DDs (again excluding the fake CLs) can do this stuff.  They just go about it in different ways. 

Anyways, I hope this helped some guys.

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Edited by Destroyer_KuroshioKai
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Shima with F3 torps is like Kami R.  Prove me wrong...

I get the same feeling playing both and both are equally effective with the same play style.

Post is totally on point about DD role though, damage is always secondary.   Funny enough, I've whooper a number of gearings and fletchers with Shima, its pretty funny!

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