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shotgun2010

Iowa torpedo belt

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so I've noticed a change to Iowa's armor scheme. the main belt used to be on the outside, but now it's behind a 25mm torpedo belt. 

so my question is, if an AP shell penetrates the torp belt, but bounces off the internal belt, is damage inflicted? if it is then this is a huge nerf to the iowa...

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2 minutes ago, shotgun2010 said:

 if an AP shell penetrates the torp belt, but bounces off the internal belt, is damage inflicted?

No.

Easy to test for yourself in a training room. Set up a bot iowa, take a little tin can, move up alongside and plink at its belt for a bit.

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3 hours ago, shotgun2010 said:

so I've noticed a change to Iowa's armor scheme. the main belt used to be on the outside, but now it's behind a 25mm torpedo belt. 

so my question is, if an AP shell penetrates the torp belt, but bounces off the internal belt, is damage inflicted? if it is then this is a huge nerf to the iowa...

Have no fear, as Lert states, your BB is safe:

 

Large HP - check.

Big armour - check.

Torpedo armour belt - check.

*Incredible anti-aircraft suite makes her highly resistant to aerial assault - check (*wiki pros).

Reinforced anti-scratch paint - check.

Big guns to kill every one else - check.

 

Mother Russia (WG) pats her BB child on the head and says: Don't worry BB, you may now move forward from the spawn point and support your team; your fun and engaging play remains intact. :Smile_teethhappy:

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To be clear here:

Hitting the torpedo protection with a shell results in the dreaded "zero damage pen".  That is, it registers as a pen for you, but the opponent does not take any damage unless that shell can also pen the armor BEHIND the torpedo protection.

As @Lert says, this can easily be demonstrated by taking a something with low-powered gun in the training room, and plinking away at the belt location.

I just did this with a Mogami that has no IFHE skill captain. The 155mm guns firing HE on it will barely penetrate 25mm of armor (but they will). 155mm AP will penetrate 25mm of armor quite easily, but won't go through the backing armor at all (it has no hope against 300mm+ belts, no matter how close).

 

The results speak for themselves:  at 1km distance, shooting HE at the torpedo protection resulted in VERY consistent "pen", but NEVER caused any damage. Shooting AP at the same distance, resulted in a Shatter 95% of the time, with a couple of pens doing actual damage (I suspect that may be me not quite hitting the torpedo protection and hitting the upper hull instead). 

Note that HE will still have a fire chance, even if it shatters. So even if I'm shooting straight at the 300mm belt armor with no torpedo protection in front of it, while the HE will consistently shatter, it still starts fires.

Edited by EAnybody

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On 4/18/2018 at 7:22 AM, EAnybody said:

To be clear here:

Hitting the torpedo protection with a shell results in the dreaded "zero damage pen".  That is, it registers as a pen for you, but the opponent does not take any damage unless that shell can also pen the armor BEHIND the torpedo protection.

As @Lert says, this can easily be demonstrated by taking a something with low-powered gun in the training room, and plinking away at the belt location.

I just did this with a Mogami that has no IFHE skill captain. The 155mm guns firing HE on it will barely penetrate 25mm of armor (but they will). 155mm AP will penetrate 25mm of armor quite easily, but won't go through the backing armor at all (it has no hope against 300mm+ belts, no matter how close).

 

The results speak for themselves:  at 1km distance, shooting HE at the torpedo protection resulted in VERY consistent "pen", but NEVER caused any damage. Shooting AP at the same distance, resulted in a Shatter 95% of the time, with a couple of pens doing actual damage (I suspect that may be me not quite hitting the torpedo protection and hitting the upper hull instead). 

Note that HE will still have a fire chance, even if it shatters. So even if I'm shooting straight at the 300mm belt armor with no torpedo protection in front of it, while the HE will consistently shatter, it still starts fires.

We need a comprehensive guide to oddball ribbons like zero damage pens, defense ribbons from no hits, and the exceedingly rare multi-compartment overpen. 

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20 hours ago, rapier_ape said:

We need a comprehensive guide to oddball ribbons like zero damage pens, defense ribbons from no hits, and the exceedingly rare multi-compartment overpen. 

Maybe a page on the Wiki entitled:

FAQ:  Stupid [edited] in WoWS

 

Edit:  Seriously, this would be a REAL good idea to have this. @Sharkbait_416, we should add this to the Wiki. Maybe a more genteel name like: 

Errata:  Weird Behaviors

 

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1 hour ago, EAnybody said:

Maybe a page on the Wiki entitled:

FAQ:  Stupid S**T in WoWS

 

Edit:  Seriously, this would be a REAL good idea to have this. @Sharkbait_416, we should add this to the Wiki. Maybe a more genteel name like: 

Errata:  Weird Behaviors

 

:Smile_Default: There's some good info here: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

Yeah, there are a few situations that can lead to non-damage penetrations. One occurs when you inflict damage to modules without destroying them. Certain modules have HP pools which can be lowered. Once it reaches zero, the module is destroyed (like gun turrets). Other situations include when a shell hits an area that is damage saturated, or when your shells explode in spaced armor (like a torpedo bulge).

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3 hours ago, Sharkbait_416 said:

:Smile_Default: There's some good info here: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

Yeah, there are a few situations that can lead to non-damage penetrations. One occurs when you inflict damage to modules without destroying them. Certain modules have HP pools which can be lowered. Once it reaches zero, the module is destroyed (like gun turrets). Other situations include when a shell hits an area that is damage saturated, or when your shells explode in spaced armor (like a torpedo bulge).

I was thinking more of a page for general information on a variety of subjects, where the behavior of the game either is different than what one would expect, or better explanations of actual bugs.

E.g. anything from the behavior of radar and hydro, to how spotter planes can spot you without you seeing them, to what the DD "superpen" is, to how much of your ship you have to expose to be spotted or do spotting, etc.  Specifically, this would be concrete examples of certain behavior that may deviate from what the more general principle discussion pages talk about.

That's why I suggested "Errata" as the page title.  It's stuff you need to know about the peculiarities of a variety of game mechanisms, that you don't want buried in topic-specific pages because it's either short (and thus easily missed amid a deep discussion) or because it may change over time, and having an Errata to refer to is helpful.

Heck, we need a place where actual verified bugs can be listed, so that people quit asking the forums about weird behavior that's technically been verified as a bug.

 

Here's a good example of something that would go on that page:

Smoke Firing:  not only does the smoke firing parameter apply to detecting your ship inside a smoke screen, but it applies to ships that are outside smoke screens.   Thus, it would apply in these situations:   a ship in a smoke screen detecting a ship outside the smoke screen, a ship behind a smoke screen detecting one in front of the smoke screen, a ship outside the smoke screen detecting one inside the smoke screen.  

(the actual realities of using smoke aren't well described on the Wiki)

Edited by EAnybody

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:22 AM, EAnybody said:

To be clear here:

Hitting the torpedo protection with a shell results in the dreaded "zero damage pen".  That is, it registers as a pen for you, but the opponent does not take any damage unless that shell can also pen the armor BEHIND the torpedo protection.

I've heard that (totally reliable source right?) plunging shells can plunge through the torp belt, bounce off the internal main belt onto a lower section of the torpedo belt, then bouncing into the citadel. 

it happens in the republique apparently... (although republique has normal armor belt, not torp belt)

5LH7bB9YEAXpeIbNkDe0IPokVvDeA9x3YSRfeXJhBMk.jpg?w=1024&s=99f59ecee9889137ce3398afcc15ed75

Edited by shotgun2010

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