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NiteW0lfe

Friendly Fire & Team Kill auto system

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First off, don't know if its been said before or not and I am not a forum addict lol, I am in a hurry to vent - lol

This whole system is flawed beyond believe, lately from what i been experiencing - intentionally or unintentionally -  friendly's have been merrily sailing into torps that were launched 30s prior to them being in the area of fire- yes i do check line of sight,in case anyone want to ask. If this is unintentional then there's a severe lack of "Situational Awareness" which is one of the key elements in being successful in the game, This is day 2 of this particular event occur for me anyhow, frankly I am tried of it, whether it be ineptness or deliberate, I get disciplinary action for something that was unintended- If the issue of Teamkiller  is such a concern - Simply solution turn off Friendly Fire, other games can and do - or have matches that have it disabled. just saying if to the devs if was not a desired  type of game play happening - why, in the first place was it ever allowed through into the eventual roll-out of the game

 

Have great day

Edited by NiteW0lfe
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Never launch torpedoes from behnd a freindly.

My destroyer has taken too many friendly torps from behind as I dodge enemy torps and knife fight that contested cap.

Never launch torps at a target that will die before your torpedoes will get there.

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So I guess that must go hand in with angling and minimize broadside time, would have never guessed that one, Hi-jacking post, not about when/who/where - just to clarify in case that point was missed, its about the system

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21 minutes ago, NiteW0lfe said:

So I guess that must go hand in with angling and minimize broadside time, would have never guessed that one, Hi-jacking post, not about when/who/where - just to clarify in case that point was missed, its about the system

The system works fine 99% of the time provided you're playing well and not doing foolish things like what @dEsTurbed1 mentioned.

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Be more careful, your torps are your responsibility. The system is fine, the people that are careless and sink their allies are the problem. Accidents happen, just own up to it, move up, and be more careful next time.

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Ok - lets simplify it - WG frowns on it so, so much so it lead to implementing more overhead to by introducing a Team Kill penalty system,  so logically if its not - the Team Kill  that is - what they want a simpler solution is to disable Friendly fire, no blame, no intent, no worries

 

Just saying - why make it more complicated than it needs be, perhaps there is a hidden agenda lol

Edited by NiteW0lfe

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Your torps, your fault. 

I’m not saying that I’ve never screwed up and turned pink.  I have, but I always apologize immediately. 

My Lo Yang got wrecked today by a friendly Yugumo. Contesting B cap on Atlantic. We kill one DD and I see a smoke cloud on the edge of the cap. I turn to charge the smoke cloud with hydro - that is what the Lo Yang is for - and BLAM I get hit by 2 Yugumo torps from 2 different spreads. HE did apologize immediately. OK. 

When I’m driving a DD, I don’t know what I’m going to do 10 seconds from now in the heat of battle. Don’t assume that YOU know what I’m going to do.  

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For a while, I've been wanting a simply communication "Warning: Inbound ("friendly" is optional) Torpedoes". Closest thing I have right now is "Retreat". <go figure, but that really doesn't express or convey exactly what is coming their way. So, instead of using something simple and quick that gets their attention, I end up having to resort to the good ole in-game chat. Takes my attention away from the battle just for the chance that they may actually read it. Sometimes, the other guy is actually able to multitask and reads the message. More often than not, they do not.

 

The regular chat is often (and I mean almost never) read as people are too focused to read it while in combat. Even if you take the time to call out to them, they will often miss this vital piece of information and with one press of the A or D keys, turn right into one or all of your torps. Or even the enemies torps.

 

Not that it is vital, as you can avoid friendly fire easily simply by not firing your torpedoes at all, but in certain situations firing those torps are what saves that person that you 'might' hit. So, damned if you do, damned if you don't in those situations. Friendly fire is rare though... or at least it should be. So, play smart and check your surroundings before you fire.

Edited by Levits

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if your torps hit an ally, it's always your fault. always. it doesn't matter if they could have avoided them. it doesn't matter if you warned them. it doesn't matter if they turned into them intentionally. unless you're in a division with them and can directly communicate what you're doing, there is no excuse for reckless torps. if you go pink or orange for team damage, it is 100% on you and your decision making.

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As the other people above me say and what a good majority of others are gonna say, Its your fault that you decided to take the risk of firing behind a friendly ship.

 

You have guns, use em, even if they aren't that damaging, try to start fires.

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+1 Well said :) personally playing in higher tiers its a rare occurrence, but sometimes unfortunate turn of events take precedence. I own it if it happens

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I love threads like this where it's everyone else's fault. OP even mentions that the other players lack situational awareness for encountering his torps when it's his situational awareness that is lacking for launching them in the first place. 

Go ahead OP and argue this one with me, I'm a DD main who loves to torpedo things.

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I really care less for placing blame - its not a matter of blame for myself, WG  frowns on it so -there's a simple way to negate concerns for all parties - Friendly fire  /off - why not have that instead of such a system that by no means is perfect? I was fine with its implementation, played the wait and see game, course of events(which was a eye opener) I been seeing/hearing/witnessing - let the pondering. why not choose the simple remedy really - so lead this seeing what evolve from suggesting the simple solution

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      I have seen, in over three thousand coop and random games, just one incident where someone intentionally killed another teammate and that was well over a year ago. Every other incident, almost always at T5 or below, involved cruisers and DD throwing off torps with little regard for teammates in between. I also don't think AFKs are a serious issue either because I will say that I find myself often being disconnected on entering a battle and sometimes have to reboot the whole game to get in. I am sure other players have the same issue of losing connection and having an equally irritating time trying to reconnect. I cannot say that I have seen one single player ever go AFK with intent to screw the team or the game. Never have I seen a player say "Screw the MM" and disappear. Seriously, it is as if the WOWS devs think we are all the worst of WOT players. I do not think our community is nearly so toxic or pathetic as that. 

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On 4/17/2018 at 1:57 PM, dEsTurbed1 said:

Never launch torpedoes from bend a friendly.

 

Very well stated.  Yes, I have made some poor errors in judgement and have been awarded a Tem Killer title.  Most of the time, it was my long range torps.  I can argue against it, but the truth hurts.  So what do I do? Look, think, don't react.

When you look, look at the mini-map, look for team mates, etc.  THINK!!  There have been numerous times when I launch torps, and a team mate then changed direction, does not read my chat about torp launch warning, or mentioning ship or player name to turn away, don't kamakasi charge, etc, and KaBlamo!  Texas_Vet is now pink.  But it is more rare when I launch 10k torps at 10k and that happens.  Yes, we all need to look and protect ourselves from turning pink because of either our own error in judgement (launching torps, assume team mates will read chat and turn away or just not charge mindless into the fray).  We ahve all done it.

It is just some are better at turning pink than others.

I know there is another thread somewhere about making changes about friendly fire.  There are changes in the works for the next major release.

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3 hours ago, Texas_Vet said:

Very well stated.  Yes, I have made some poor errors in judgement and have been awarded a Tem Killer title.  Most of the time, it was my long range torps.  I can argue against it, but the truth hurts.  So what do I do? Look, think, don't react.

When you look, look at the mini-map, look for team mates, etc.  THINK!!  There have been numerous times when I launch torps, and a team mate then changed direction, does not read my chat about torp launch warning, or mentioning ship or player name to turn away, don't kamakasi charge, etc, and KaBlamo!  Texas_Vet is now pink.  But it is more rare when I launch 10k torps at 10k and that happens.  Yes, we all need to look and protect ourselves from turning pink because of either our own error in judgement (launching torps, assume team mates will read chat and turn away or just not charge mindless into the fray).  We ahve all done it.

It is just some are better at turning pink than others.

I know there is another thread somewhere about making changes about friendly fire.  There are changes in the works for the next major release.

Thursday night my French tier 8 cruiser launched its slow mines. 5 km behind a freindly cruiser sitting in new smoke behind an island. I figured since he was focused fires on he would cool for awhile and my torps would be a safe launch... nope he backed out to fire on a cruiser and I got him. My fault and I should have known better than trying to squeeze them past him.

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I have been the victim of one deliberate team kill.  As soon as the battle started a nearby destroyer began pelting me with shells and eventually torpedoed and sank my cruiser.  I did not respond since the system does not recognize self defense.  :) 

I have also been labeled with the pink badge of shame three or four times -- always my fault even though I didn't always know I'd hit a friendly ship.  I think all my punishments were the result of errant torpedoes.  Now I am a lot more careful about shooting torps.

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On 4/17/2018 at 6:09 PM, Levits said:

For a while, I've been wanting a simply communication "Warning: Inbound ("friendly" is optional) Torpedoes". Closest thing I have right now is "Retreat". <go figure, but that really doesn't express or convey exactly what is coming their way. So, instead of using something simple and quick that gets their attention, I end up having to resort to the good ole in-game chat. Takes my attention away from the battle just for the chance that they may actually read it. Sometimes, the other guy is actually able to multitask and reads the message. More often than not, they do not.

 

The regular chat is often (and I mean almost never) read as people are too focused to read it while in combat. Even if you take the time to call out to them, they will often miss this vital piece of information and with one press of the A or D keys, turn right into one or all of your torps. Or even the enemies torps.

 

Not that it is vital, as you can avoid friendly fire easily simply by not firing your torpedoes at all, but in certain situations firing those torps are what saves that person that you 'might' hit. So, damned if you do, damned if you don't in those situations. Friendly fire is rare though... or at least it should be. So, play smart and check your surroundings before you fire.

You have essentially described what we know in the military jargon as "the fog of war". 

War is chaos, and by definition, you will never know with certainty whats the right best move in the best moment.. in fact, it will be the opposite, most of the time. (That's why it is said that wars are easy to start but hard to end).   In real battles, you play it safe but you know you must win and therefore, sometimes you'll have to take risky decisions.  As long as you play quasi realistic war games, there is no escape from it. Like realwars, You 'll make mistakes, and hopefully you will learn and get to be better player.

Those painfully risky moments" are what distinguish a true warrior spirit from a bad one: when the stakes are high, decisions are tough but you take them approximately in the best moment, and learn to live with the consequences. In real wars  you usually die or get someone killed. In this game, no blood is spilled and you will live to learn for the next battle,...if you want to. 

 

This game, like a real war, is all about smartly learning when and where to take risks.

Now, some things will probably never change in this game.  Bad and Poor players in the game shun those critical moments and go into hiding, most of the time,.  Most of the time they  make possibly the worst decision: becoming passive in a cloud of smoke, behind a rock or just plainly idling about the battlefield.  Many stop fighting altogether to avoid risk of enemy fire. Those never learn from the experience of battle.   To me those are the worst offenses on any war game, including this game, because they tend to destroy the team spirit of these battles.  And they go practically unaddressed to this day. Some people just never learn, and don't care.  They ll be here to just pollute the team effort. Somehow we have to adjust for their pressence, or leave the game altogether.

Wargames net should address the 3 roots of misconduct situations that lead to these sort of problems just like a real, professional military would address it:

The 3 roots of bad conduct are:

No. 1) lack of willingness (will) to play the game right.

2) lack of technical experience and practice.

3) lack of theoretical knowledge.

Number 1: no organization can force or spent too much effort on people without motivation, or will to play right.  this situation is addressed by disciplinary action, leading to expulsion in real life scenario.  WGN can and should be doing efforts to place punitive measures.  So far so good, but maybe need some improvement and refinements in that area. (this is surely the worst case scenario, so i am sure we will return to it later on).

Number 2  Lack of technical know-how gained by experience.  This is addressed by training and number of battles.  There is a training room available.  Great job.  Now it is time to promote its use.  Come up with conflicting situations in the game and push to recreate them in training rooms.  (like friendly torps incidents.. and players drifting idle in the battlefield, leading to such incidents).  I assure you those willing to learn will get the drift, so to speak.

3) training rooms should be closely linked to training videos,that somehow must be promoted to players.   I know they are here, but some new players seem totally unaware of them.  Strategic and tactical awareness demand some mental effort in understanding the theory of space and time coordination in the battle space.

Got to go now.  There is much more to be said but that will be later on.

 

Edited by mig2004

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