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renegadestatuz

Dev Blog - ST Chnages to Varyag, Midway, Hakuryu , Z-39

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ST. Russian cruiser Varyag, tier III, American aircraft carrier Midway, tier X, Japanese aircraft carrier Hakuryu, tier X, German destroyer Z-39, tier VII.

Varyag.
Main battery reload is improved to 8 seconds, down from 9.

Midway.
Total number of planes is decreased from 136 to 116 (instead of initially planned 96).

Hakuryu.
The Type 10 mod.2 flight control now contains 3 fighter squadrons, 3 torpedo bomber squadrons and 2 dive bomber squadrons, opposed to the previous 2-3-3 distribution.

The carrier changes make these ships better balanced against each other, no matter the battle length.

Z-39.
The rear turret rotation angles from the central position are increased to 143 deg. fro 129 deg. This makes the destroyer's guns easier to use and increases the DPM while at steep angles.

Edited by renegadestatuz
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Nice to they are actually trying to do a better job of balancing the Hakuryu and Midway, not just Nerf the Midway.  This is a much better solution than the pure nerf.  Looks a lot more thought out, and will provide a better balance.

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Its about time they buffed the Hakuryu. :cap_wander:

For Refrence Hak was

2:Fighter 3:Torp 2:Dive Bomber

4:Fighter 2:Torp 2:Dive Bomber

2:Fighter 3:Torp 3:Dive Bomber

 

Now gets 3:Fighter  3:Torp 2:Div Bomber.

 

 

Once again.. WG has no clue how to do CV Balance.

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7 minutes ago, renegadestatuz said:

Varyag.
Main battery reload is improved to 8 seconds, down from 9.

Oh, wow! Amazing buff! Now instead of a tier 2.1 it's a tier 2.3!

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Oh, wow! Amazing buff! Now instead of a tier 2.1 it's a tier 2.3!

:Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Oh, wow! Amazing buff! Now instead of a tier 2.1 it's a tier 2.3!

Yup, St. Louis ROF but with two less guns, no AP, no armour, but with speed.

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Math time!  The only way this is going to work is if you give the Midway back its TX fighters,  otherwise all you've done is give the Hak air superiority while sacrificing its weakest squadron.  Alternatively,  make the Hak a 3/3/3 and knock her fighters down to T9.  That'll put her roughly on par with the Midway,  with fifteen concurrent fighters in the air to the Midways fourteen and with the Midway having slightly better fighters.

But as it is,  this is just taking the problem and reversing it.  Right now its only sort of balanced by the fact that Midways T9's can't chew through the superior but fewer fighters of the Hak very quickly,  but if you give the Hak superior numbers AND superior fighters she's just going to bury the Midways fighters and go on to dominate her bombers.

This is a step closer but its not quite there yet.

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Let's see:

Hak with 3-3-2 vs Midway with 2-2-2.

Hak will have 15 fighters in the air, tier 10. Midway will have 14 fighters in the air, tier 9. Midway is able to strafe more often, but also has less planes, less map coverage, less durability, less speed. If the Midway player is an absolute ace with strafing, Midway wins. If Hak players is at all competent, Hak wins. Advantage Hak.

Hak will have 12 torpedo bombers in the air, all tier 10. Midway will have 12 torpedo bombers in the air, all tier 8. Hak TBs have MUCH greater durability and speed. Midway's TBs hit harder but will be easily decimated by AA unless they can spot isolated battleships. Against a potato team where enemy ships go all over the place, Midway has advantage (hence why they are dominating in Random). Against a competent team who support each other with AA, Hak wins hand down. Hence why Hak is favored in competitive. No clear advantage here as it really depends on what the enemy team does.

Hak will have 10 dive bombers, all tier 10. Midway will have 14 dive bombers, also all tier 10. Midway advantage here no doubt, although it entirely depends on RNG throwing you a bone. Midway's HE dive bombers hit like trucks, but also have a giant drop ellipse that makes nailing DDs very very difficult. And Midway's AP bombs depends on matchmaking RNG giving you a bunch of German BBs, and some high tier cruisers like Des Moines or Moskva. And thank god these dive bombers are tier 10 since you need to actually fly through Des Moines or Moskva AA before actually bombing them.

Hak vs Midway actual ship: Hak has significantly better concealment. Hak is slightly faster.. Midway has better AA than Hak, but Hak has better multiplier on Defensive Fire. Hak reloads planes significantly faster than Midway (general IJN vs USN issue). Ship advantage very clearly Hak here. The concealment difference is a big big deal as Midway gets spotted a full 3km sooner! That's batshit insane. Hak not only reloads planes faster, Hak's planes are much faster AND Hak's planes get to the battle faster since the carrier can sail much closer. So while Midway torpedoes and bombs hit like mac trucks, it takes forever to actually get them there. As in Hak can strike a good deal more often. Midway torp drop pattern is godly which is why it's been doing so well with dev strikes, but it takes forever to get those planes into the fight and overlapping AA will burn them all before they can drop.

So again, Midway seems to be pretty good in Randoms due to players not knowing better and sailing alone. But against a competent team, especially a competent team with a Hak player, that Midway will have a very very bad time. When Hak was 2-3-3, at least Midway could claim a clear air superiority (assuming Hak did not go 4-2-2 which they never do in Randoms), but with Hak going 3-2-2, Midway will struggle hard, especially in an AA heavy match.

So the impression I get is that Wargaming designed Midway to be played in Randoms *only*. Am I the only one?

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The hits to Midway just keep on coming.

 

This time with a buff to Hakuryu, on top of Midway's hangar capacity nerf.

 

Wow.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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I... uhh... never knew this would happen. The last thing I expected WG to do was changing the Hakuryu's strike loadout to be stronger. 

If there's a definite thing, then it's a straight up buff to the Hakuryu's strike loadout. From 2-3-3 to 3-3-2, this means that Hakuryu players lose an extra dive bomber and gain a fighter. What are the implications?

  • Losing a dive bomber does not change the overall strike power of the Hakuryu. The damage over time via flood and fire may be lessened a bit, but this is offset by the fact that the Hakuryu gains extra ability to contest the skies better. 
  • The scouting power of the Hakuryu has not significantly changed. At 7.3, if one wants to scout but keep its fighters in defense of allied ships, the Hakuryu captain would empty the dive bomber and use it as a scout. The dive bombers move as fast as the fighters, giving them an extra scout. If the emptied dive bomber was lost, the Hakuryu may not have lost that much since the dive bombers are simply extra damage and are not as worth as the torpedo bombers or fighters.
  • Hakuryu gains greater ability to contest the skies. With three fighters, the Hakuryu now has means to contest the Midway. Currently, in 7.3, the Midway can outdo the Hakuryu due to the number of planes, ammunition, and fighter reserves. Now, the Hakuryu has "more or less" equal ground. Without Air Superiority (AS) captain skill, the IJN Tier X CV can wield 12 fighters in 3 squads versus the USN Tier X CV's 12 fighters in 2 squads. With AS, the Hakuryu can wield 15 fighters in 3 squads versus Midway who can wield 14 fighters in 2 squads.
  • The AS Hakuryu is no longer relevant. Because the strike loadout has a greater potency to deal damage while keeping its air powers adequate to meet any carrier, the strike Hakuryu has better usage against enemy ships in randoms. For the AS Hakuryu, its two torpedo bombers and dive bombers cannot rack up a lot of damage without depending on the incompetence of the enemy team. 

 

Now onto the Midway's reduction from 136 to 116. What are the implications?

  • No longer the Midway can rely on its massive hangar reserves to bully another CV's into submission. Now, the Midway has to be wary of how many planes it can send off to an enemy AA's bubble before they take losses. 
  • Assuming that the fighter planes stay at Tier 9, the torpedo bombers stay at Tier 8, and the dive bombers stay at Tier 10, the Midway may need to play much more conservatively on who and how they strike a target. 
  • On a Midway versus Hakuryu air battle, it would ultimately depend on the position of the fighters and the usage of fighters through the skill of CV players. Both the Midway and Hakuryu are dependent on their fighter reserves.
  • Assuming that all Midway planes become Tier 10, the Midway may have a slight edge over the Hakuryu, but it no longer has the reserves to make a safe cushion in case things go sour for the Midway player.
  • The Midway can no longer throw away planes for the sake of scouting. The Midway already faces problems in scouting due to the fact that all planes have a built-in purpose to either defend ships or strike ships. With the reduction in hangar size, the Midway has to focus on damaging ships but may find itself neglecting to scout out enemy destroyers and ships for the allied fleet. 

 

It's too early to say who wins and who loses from these changes. Not only they are subjected to change, but also we need to wait for the public test server to truly get a look on how the carriers perform. 

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3 minutes ago, AdmiralMudkip said:

I... uhh... never knew this would happen. The last thing I expected WG to do was changing the Hakuryu's strike loadout to be stronger. 

If there's a definite thing, then it's a straight up buff to the Hakuryu's strike loadout. From 2-3-3 to 3-3-2, this means that Hakuryu players lose an extra dive bomber and gain a fighter. What are the implications?

  • Losing a dive bomber does not change the overall strike power of the Hakuryu. The damage over time via flood and fire may be lessened a bit, but this is offset by the fact that the Hakuryu gains extra ability to contest the skies better. 
  • The scouting power of the Hakuryu has not significantly changed. At 7.3, if one wants to scout but keep its fighters in defense of allied ships, the Hakuryu captain would empty the dive bomber and use it as a scout. The dive bombers move as fast as the fighters, giving them an extra scout. If the emptied dive bomber was lost, the Hakuryu may not have lost that much since the dive bombers are simply extra damage and are not as worth as the torpedo bombers or fighters.
  • Hakuryu gains greater ability to contest the skies. With three fighters, the Hakuryu now has means to contest the Midway. Currently, in 7.3, the Midway can outdo the Hakuryu due to the number of planes, ammunition, and fighter reserves. Now, the Hakuryu has "more or less" equal ground. Without Air Superiority (AS) captain skill, the IJN Tier X CV can wield 12 fighters in 3 squads versus the USN Tier X CV's 12 fighters in 2 squads. With AS, the Hakuryu can wield 15 fighters in 3 squads versus Midway who can wield 14 fighters in 2 squads.
  • The AS Hakuryu is no longer relevant. Because the strike loadout has a greater potency to deal damage while keeping its air powers adequate to meet any carrier, the strike Hakuryu has better usage against enemy ships in randoms. For the AS Hakuryu, its two torpedo bombers and dive bombers cannot rack up a lot of damage without depending on the incompetence of the enemy team. 

 

Now onto the Midway's reduction from 136 to 116. What are the implications?

  • No longer the Midway can rely on its massive hangar reserves to bully another CV's into submission. Now, the Midway has to be wary of how many planes it can send off to an enemy AA's bubble before they take losses. 
  • Assuming that the fighter planes stay at Tier 9, the torpedo bombers stay at Tier 8, and the dive bombers stay at Tier 10, the Midway may need to play much more conservatively on who and how they strike a target. 
  • On a Midway versus Hakuryu air battle, it would ultimately depend on the position of the fighters and the usage of fighters through the skill of CV players. Both the Midway and Hakuryu are dependent on their fighter reserves.
  • Assuming that all Midway planes become Tier 10, the Midway may have a slight edge over the Hakuryu, but it no longer has the reserves to make a safe cushion in case things go sour for the Midway player.
  • The Midway can no longer throw away planes for the sake of scouting. The Midway already faces problems in scouting due to the fact that all planes have a built-in purpose to either defend ships or strike ships. With the reduction in hangar size, the Midway has to focus on damaging ships but may find itself neglecting to scout out enemy destroyers and ships for the allied fleet. 

 

It's too early to say who wins and who loses from these changes. Not only they are subjected to change, but also we need to wait for the public test server to truly get a look on how the carriers perform. 

That's a fairly comprehensive breakdown. Thankyou.

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39 minutes ago, KaptainKaybe said:

So the impression I get is that Wargaming designed Midway to be played in Randoms *only*. Am I the only one?

This looks more for all usn cv line (not premiuns)

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Midway - IDK, people seem displeased on the carrier balance front. Doesn't make me feel any more confident in WG's CV balancing skills.

Varyag - Zero fracks given

Z-39 - Somewhat surprising given I thought downtiering her was already going to make a strong ship.

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I like this changes. Hak become more interessing to play vs midway 3-3-2 will give a good chance for ijn competent players fight, and not going make midway 'that' useless, and its not boring gameplay like 4-2-2, looks like the 'ideal' configuration for the hak.

And they not totaly nuke the midway hangar so she will stay able to fight util the end (unless you be a total potato)

 

Interessing.

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3 hours ago, renegadestatuz said:

ST. Russian cruiser Varyag, tier III, American aircraft carrier Midway, tier X, Japanese aircraft carrier Hakuryu, tier X, German destroyer Z-39, tier VII.

and as the salty tears begin to flow ...

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As far as the Midway goes very happy to see that the pulled back a little bit on what looked like a way over nerf. However Midway is still being nerfed. I’m not convinced that Hakuryu need a buff to compensate it ontop of a lesser nerf to Midway. 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, AdmiralMudkip said:

It's too early to say who wins and who loses from these changes. Not only they are subjected to change, but also we need to wait for the public test server to truly get a look on how the carriers perform. 

pretty much sums it up with this change to both CV it's one change that we have to wait and see how it go's on the PTS, people can run numbers or get excited that Hakuryu has 3 fighter squads, do we know how many planes are going to fighters, TB and DB on the midway the best you can guess is WG took one squad away with each 7-6-7 makes up the 20 plane loss.

 

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They made the Hakuryu Strike Spec better able to contest the skies against Midway.

 

Think about that.  It's absurd.

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

They made the Hakuryu Strike Spec better able to contest the skies against Midway.

 

Think about that.  It's absurd.

The only thing WG does to IJN CVs is buff them.

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With that buff, the Hak will be better than the midway.  Control the skies?  check. Control vision?  check.  More flexible strike?  check.  better stealth?  check.  better load times on the planes? check.  I would say the midway has a harder hitting strike, but that depends on MM and RNG.  RNG givith, RNG taketh. 

 

the other changes sound nice.  shame the CV one seems really.... meh.

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