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CaptainKaitoGhost

Supertest: balance changes to USN Cruisers

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ST. American cruisers.

Columbia (Cleveland), tier VIII.

Base firing range of the main battery is increased from 13.3 to 14.2 km and its reload time is decreased from 7 to 6.5 seconds.

Buffalo, tier IX.

Base surface detectability is increased from 13.14 to 13.62 km. Penalty after firing from a smokescreen with main battery is increased from 7.6 to 7.98 km.

Pittsburgh (Baltimore), tier VIII.

Hull plating thickness is increased from 25 to 27 mm. This will help the ship withstand most of the 155-mm HE shells and cause 380 mm AP shells to ricochet when the cruiser is angled correctly. Main battery reload time is decreased from 13 to 10 seconds.

Salt Lake City (Pensacola), tier VI.

Guns are replaced - 203mm/55 Mk14 instead of 203mm/50 Mk14. The guns are now historically correct.

Shell stats for the new weaponry.

HE: muzzle velocity - 823 m/s (up from 792 m/s). AP: muzzle velocity - 853 m/s (up from 792 m/s), maximum damage - 4600 (up from 4500). Other stats remain unchanged.

The American cruisers received a range of improvements as a result of testing and are now much better balanced against other ships of the class.

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Cleveland - very sensible, especially the ROF. Anyone remember when she had 8s reload and Helena had 10s? ha.

Baltimore - looks a bit of a monster. 27mm plate, 150mm belt at T8, 6 RPM(!) while NOLA has 5 RPM at the moment.

Buffalo - shrug

Pensacola - Dangerous. Initial reviews said Pensacola looked good at T6 as it was.

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The Pensacola's issue was having sliw turret traverse that kept her at range combined with low velocity shells on a made up gun.

Now she's not such a contradiction against herself, and easier for new players to learn without helping top players all that greatly.

Her concealment is still absurd however.

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3 minutes ago, mofton said:

Buffalo - shrug

Pensacola - Dangerous. Initial reviews said Pensacola looked good at T6 as it was.

I'm personally hoping Buff will get the same reload buff as Balt, otherwise they'll have identical DPM despite Buff being a tier higher and having to show more broadside when firing.

As for Pensacola, it's the Pensacola, I've cit'd that thing in several DDs (including Kamikaze and Aigle). It gets shell with slightly better flight time and enough turret rotation to keep it's guns on target when it's trying to keep alive via hard maneuvers.

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Absolutely excellent changes.

 

Baltimore might even be overpowered now...

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With these changes Baltimore seems to be the shining star of the USN CA branch with the Buffalo being a bit of a turd.

 

The changes to Cleveland are also welcome. Gives her the historical RoF she had and slightly better range. I'm quite excited to get my hands on these ships soon(tm).

Edited by Phaere

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All seem reasonable, good adjustments.

31 minutes ago, Big_Spud said:

Baltimore might even be overpowered now...

Shhhhh....maybe we'll get it during ranked.

Edited by Wye_So_Serious

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I god i cannot wait... i want those ships yesterday!  I am so ready to take them out and obliterate everything lol.

I know it want happen in time but can you imagine the Baltimore at tier VIII in ranked.  Oh yes ships will sink and planes will go poof :cap_rambo:

Edited by GUNSTAR_THE_LEGEND

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1 hour ago, CaptainKaitoGhost said:

ST. American cruisers.

Columbia (Cleveland), tier VIII.

Base firing range of the main battery is increased from 13.3 to 14.2 km and its reload time is decreased from 7 to 6.5 seconds.

Buffalo, tier IX.

Base surface detectability is increased from 13.14 to 13.62 km. Penalty after firing from a smokescreen with main battery is increased from 7.6 to 7.98 km.

Pittsburgh (Baltimore), tier VIII.

Hull plating thickness is increased from 25 to 27 mm. This will help the ship withstand most of the 155-mm HE shells and cause 380 mm AP shells to ricochet when the cruiser is angled correctly. Main battery reload time is decreased from 13 to 10 seconds.

Salt Lake City (Pensacola), tier VI.

Guns are replaced - 203mm/55 Mk14 instead of 203mm/50 Mk14. The guns are now historically correct.

Shell stats for the new weaponry.

HE: muzzle velocity - 823 m/s (up from 792 m/s). AP: muzzle velocity - 853 m/s (up from 792 m/s), maximum damage - 4600 (up from 4500). Other stats remain unchanged.

The American cruisers received a range of improvements as a result of testing and are now much better balanced against other ships of the class.

My comments:

 

VIII CL Cleveland - Range buff is meaningless.  As long as Cleveland has those floaty shells, she'll be a low damage average high tier cruiser.  Back when AFT + BFT buffed 155mm or smaller guns, Cleveland was able to reach to around 17.2km.  She couldn't hit sh*t, and that era was considered "The Glory Days" for Cleveland.

 

IX CA Buffalo - A USN CA with worse DPM than current IX Baltimore (to fire all guns you need to show broadside), worse concealment than Baltimore.  I'd still take current IX Baltimore over Buffalo any day.

 

VIII Baltimore - Good improvements, thankfully WG is preserving the plating and the Tier IX reload time.  Right now she is leagues better than the current NOLA.

 

VI Pensacola - Much better looking guns than the previous version they were going for.

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I see WG is giving Baltimore the Charles Martel treatment. AKA Make a T9 ship and then move it down one tier with little to no changes. 

Edited by Cruiser_Chicago

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5 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

IX CA Buffalo - A USN CA with worse DPM than current IX Baltimore (to fire all guns you need to show broadside), worse concealment than Baltimore.  I'd still take current IX Baltimore over Buffalo any day.

Um maybe you should look again but Buffalo has better DPM than the Tier 9 Baltimore even with the lower RoF. 

155k HE DPM vs 151k HE DPM

277k AP DPM vs 270k AP DPM

The problem is her slightly worse range and worse maneuverability and detection ranges. Her gun angles could use some work too so she doesn't  need to show as much broadside to fire all 12 guns. Though I guess its also a problem with current USN CA meta currently is to bow on and poke only the nose out from island cover and not worry about rear turrets at all.

Edited by Phaere

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4 minutes ago, Cruiser_Chicago said:

I see WG is giving Baltimore the Charles Martel treatment. AKA Make a mediocre T9 ship and then move it down one tier. 

Fixed

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2 minutes ago, Phaere said:

Um maybe you should look again but Buffalo has better DPM than the Tier 9 Baltimore even with the lower RoF.

155k HE DPM vs 151k HE DPM

277k AP DPM vs 270k AP DPM

The problem is her slightly worse range and worse maneuverability and detection ranges.

But to do that, Buff needs to go broadside and fire all four turrets. And if it's face-tanking, it only gets half its DPM while Balt gets two thirds.

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10 minutes ago, Phaere said:

Um maybe you should look again but Buffalo has better DPM than the Tier 9 Baltimore even with the lower RoF. 

155k HE DPM vs 151k HE DPM

277k AP DPM vs 270k AP DPM

The problem is her slightly worse range and worse maneuverability and detection ranges. Her gun angles could use some work too so she doesn't  need to show as much broadside to fire all 12 guns. Though I guess its also a problem with current USN CA meta currently is to bow on and poke only the nose out from island cover and not worry about rear turrets at all.

I can only smile at the people that talk Raw Stat DPM :Smile_glasses:

To present all those guns she has to show broadside.  Do that in open water, with the floaty Tier IX-X USN CA shells is a losing prospect.  You also have to get closer.

 

Baltimore is best in a short range fight, in such fights, showing a broadside is suicide also.  In that capacity, the faster firing guns of IX Baltimore are better because Baltimore will present the 2, fast firing forward turrets and can be dangerous with the 10 second base reload time, 8.8 if MBM3 is taken.

 

Buffalo won't have that.

 

Buffalo will be that one Cruiser in High Tier that is lobbing the floaty IX-X USN CA shells with mediocre range, showing broadside, getting deleted, and when trying to brawl around caps, her slower guns will find her at a disadvantage, and when she tries to fire all her guns in that kind of fight, she will get deleted.

 

I will say it right now.  As it stands, IMO, VIII Baltimore > IX Buffalo.

And current IX Baltimore >>>> IX Buffalo.

 

Buffalo players think they're going to be the next coming of Charles Martel.  They will find those floaty USN CA shells of Tier IX-X will prevent that.  And when they show all their guns, they're gonna get blapped.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Quote

Buffalo will be that one Cruiser in High Tier that is lobbing the floaty IX-X USN CA shells with mediocre range, showing broadside, getting deleted, and when trying to brawl around caps, her slower guns will find her at a disadvantage, and when she tries to fire all her guns in that kind of fight, she will get deleted.

So what you're saying is the old Baltimore (pre-ROF buff) with another turret.

Edited by Wye_So_Serious

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5 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

 

So what you're saying is the old Baltimore (pre-ROF buff) with another turret.

Basically.  I'm not saying the current IX Baltimore is freaking amazing, but her improvements were smart.  She's always had those floaty shells, I remember a Tier VII Leningrad trolling the sh*t out of my Baltimore at 12km and I couldn't hit her at all.  The ROF buff Baltimore got was smart because it let her be stronger in the area where the USN Cruiser is best at in these tiers:  Short ranged fighting.

 

When I saw WG was going with a high gun count IX USN Cruiser, I knew that thing was going to reload slow.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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A great example of the limitation of Buffalo needing to show full sides is pretty apparent in this video by Notser, even behind islands.

 

Now her concealment will be worse than it was before, so leveraging her Radar will be much harder.  Buffalo concealment was already worse than current IX Baltimore, so this is going to be hilarious.

 

It's a Gun Cruiser that can't engage at range well, and it's concealment is going to be trash to make her Radar irrelevant.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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36 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I will say it right now.  As it stands, IMO, VIII Baltimore > IX Buffalo.

 

T8 Baltimore is not better that T9 Baltimore. T9 has more health and 1.2s faster ROF with MBM3. They both will see a lot of T10 matches. However, this is better than the first pass of rebalancing. This will make her the only cruiser at T8 with 27mm bow right? If that’s the case she can bow tank against any 15” gun BB.

 

Switching subjects, does changing Pensacola’s guns to the 203/55s giver her back her 30s turret traverse? If you like her, that’s what really makes her playable. Also, they really need to adjust the US 6” shell drag. That poor drag was placed on them to balance out Cleveland with T6s; now that she is moving to 8 she needs better ballistics against her new opponents. Closing, this is a step in the right direction.

Edited by SavageTactical

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44 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I can only smile at the people that talk Raw Stat DPM :Smile_glasses:

To present all those guns she has to show broadside.  Do that in open water, with the floaty Tier IX-X USN CA shells is a losing prospect.  You also have to get closer.

 

Baltimore is best in a short range fight, in such fights, showing a broadside is suicide also.  In that capacity, the faster firing guns of IX Baltimore are better because Baltimore will present the 2, fast firing forward turrets and can be dangerous with the 10 second base reload time, 8.8 if MBM3 is taken.

 

Buffalo won't have that.

 

Buffalo will be that one Cruiser in High Tier that is lobbing the floaty IX-X USN CA shells with mediocre range, showing broadside, getting deleted, and when trying to brawl around caps, her slower guns will find her at a disadvantage, and when she tries to fire all her guns in that kind of fight, she will get deleted.

 

I will say it right now.  As it stands, IMO, VIII Baltimore > IX Buffalo.

And current IX Baltimore >>>> IX Buffalo.

 

Buffalo players think they're going to be the next coming of Charles Martel.  They will find those floaty USN CA shells of Tier IX-X will prevent that.  And when they show all their guns, they're gonna get blapped.

You just wait.... I will prove you wrong Haze and make you fear the Buffalo ;)

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25 minutes ago, SavageTactical said:

T8 Baltimore is not better that T9 Baltimore. T9 has more health and 1.2s faster ROF with MBM3. They both will see a lot of T10 matches. However, this is better than the first pass of rebalancing. This will make her the only cruiser at T8 with 27mm bow right? If that’s the case she can bow tank against any 15” gun BB.

 

Switching subjects, does changing Pensacola’s guns to the 203/55s giver her back her 30s turret traverse? If you like her, that’s what really makes her playable. Also, they really need to adjust the US 6” shell drag. That poor drag was placed on them to balance out Cleveland with T6s; now that she is moving to 8 she needs better ballistics against her new opponents. Closing, this is a step in the right direction.

Outside current IX Baltimore, the just changed VIII Baltimore, and Des Moines, German Tier VIII-X Cruisers have 27mm bows.  Prinz and Hipper got that bow buff a while ago, which went under a lot of peoples' radar.  I expect IX Buffalo to inherit the 27mm bow also as it's been a characteristic for IX-X USN CAs.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Thanks for sharing the info for those who didn't see the original dev blog post.

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