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AkiyamaSaneyuki_2017

USS New York would be perfect if it weren't for this one thing

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Its armor is too weak. Oh well it's not too weak, but overall I'd say it's not Germanic level tough. If New York has turtle back boy it's going to steal every show it's ever been to.

Too bad game balancing is a thing.

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It can have turtle backs all it wants, but it's not gonna save her thou.

Everywhere on the New York, except on the waterline belt and secondary barbette is 19mm...Yup. 

That means every battleship gun, from Graf See to Yamato, can basically ignores angling. As long as a shell touches these areas at any angle it's pretty much an automatic penetration. Also...19mm doesn't help much against light cruisers' 6' high explosive spam either...

With a turtle back you no longer eat citadels, but you can still gets pummeled for 10k at all angles at all ranges by any battleship, while being on fire, panicking, wiggling and dodging, at a staggering maximum speed of 21kts...

 

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I find it rather rare to citadel a New York or Texas. The issue is that they have great armour around their citadels, but weak armour everywhere else. It's a design scheme that was popular in US doctrine for some time, an all-or-nothing armour system made to protect only the most critical parts of the ship. This is reflected in game, since WG likes to use historical designs for armour in the game. It's one of the areas where they are willing to compromise based on historical arguments.

Because of this, a lot of the USN battleships up till NC tend to eat normal penetrations like nobody else. They take a whole bunch of damage from it, and there's not really anything to be done about it.  

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7 minutes ago, RivertheRoyal said:

I find it rather rare to citadel a New York or Texas. The issue is that they have great armour around their citadels, but weak armour everywhere else. It's a design scheme that was popular in US doctrine for some time, an all-or-nothing armour system made to protect only the most critical parts of the ship. This is reflected in game, since WG likes to use historical designs for armour in the game. It's one of the areas where they are willing to compromise based on historical arguments.

Because of this, a lot of the USN battleships up till NC tend to eat normal penetrations like nobody else. They take a whole bunch of damage from it, and there's not really anything to be done about it.  

The all or nothing armor scheme started on the Nevada class which was the success to the New York. 

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the horrible speed? horrible armor? horrible reload? horrible dispersion? Not saying its a bad ship, but it could be better for sure.

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38 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

The all or nothing armor scheme started on the Nevada class which was the success to the New York. 

Ah, thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware. 

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Did the New York class feature turtlebacks? No? Too bad...

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2 hours ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

The all or nothing armor scheme started on the Nevada class which was the success to the New York. 

LOL Now I have to go home and consult the American Battleship bible. US Battleships an illustrated design history by Norman Freedman. Not that I am disputing your claim, just that It is something I did not know.

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The biggest issue is that those stupid peacetime lifeboats block it's center turret's angles (look at Texas for how it should be).  This means that the New York shows way too much broadside when trying to bring all it's guns to bear.  This is also an issue on the Wyoming.

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2 hours ago, AkiyamaSaneyuki_2017 said:

Its armor is too weak. Oh well it's not too weak, but overall I'd say it's not Germanic level tough. If New York has turtle back boy it's going to steal every show it's ever been to.

Too bad game balancing is a thing.

What killed New York and Texas is the ammunition room extends far into the bow and aft. So shooting AP into the bow will citadel the ship. Dropping shells from a high arc on the bow will also punch right into the citadel below. Good thing to know if you play Texas a lot and duels your opposites.

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3 hours ago, AkiyamaSaneyuki_2017 said:

Its armor is too weak. Oh well it's not too weak, but overall I'd say it's not Germanic level tough. If New York has turtle back boy it's going to steal every show it's ever been to.

Too bad game balancing is a thing.

crappy AA.  I drive my Texas when I get the urge to drive my New York.

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2 hours ago, Kevs02Accord said:

the horrible speed? horrible armor? horrible reload? horrible dispersion? Not saying its a bad ship, but it could be better for sure.

That is precisely why it's a horrible ship, actually.

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It's Tier V, most ships are bad either way. Kongo is probably still one of the best because of her high speed and range.

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4 hours ago, Kevs02Accord said:

the horrible speed? horrible armor? horrible reload? horrible dispersion? Not saying its a bad ship, but it could be better for sure.

I take it you haven't really looked closely at the Wyoming, New Mexico nor the Colorado with regards to the speed or reloads? There is some degree of variation with regards to dispersion from T4 to T7, however this is made up through distance IE being closer to the battle...

The New York and well, the USN lower Tiers aren't bad ships at all, they just have their own niche/flavor. Just like the rest of the lines.

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New York/Texas sure they are slower than maple syrup in January, cannot hit the side of a barn, got to wait for Sunday for the reload, but o man they can turn no other, great torp avoidance thar provided your paying attention.

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5 hours ago, AkiyamaSaneyuki_2017 said:

Its armor is too weak. Oh well it's not too weak, but overall I'd say it's not Germanic level tough. If New York has turtle back boy it's going to steal every show it's ever been to.

Too bad game balancing is a thing.

It has nothing to do with game balance. She never had a turtleback.

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1 hour ago, BURN_Miner said:

I take it you haven't really looked closely at the Wyoming, New Mexico nor the Colorado with regards to the speed or reloads? There is some degree of variation with regards to dispersion from T4 to T7, however this is made up through distance IE being closer to the battle...

The New York and well, the USN lower Tiers aren't bad ships at all, they just have their own niche/flavor. Just like the rest of the lines.

Its been a while since I played Wyoming and Colo, but I have played Texas and NM recently. Didn't say they were bad ships, just worse then their contemporaries.

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The thing is, we have 4 BBs at T5 with 5x2 turret setup (Konig, NY, Iron Duke, Bretagne), and only NY has 34s reload, all the rest have 30s reload. Why? It was reasonable when it was just the NY and Kongo, and NY has more guns, so it gets worse reload. But with the introduction of the other BB lines, the 34s reload is just too un-competitive. It is more than 10% worse than the other BBs with same gun setup. At least buff it to 31-32, if not 30, if to compensate for the fact that NY has larger caliber guns. 

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4 hours ago, Belthorian said:

LOL Now I have to go home and consult the American Battleship bible. US Battleships an illustrated design history by Norman Freedman. Not that I am disputing your claim, just that It is something I did not know.

 

He's right. NEVADA was the first to get the all-or-nothing that typified the Standard-type BB's for the USN. NY and TX were good... for their day.

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7 hours ago, AkiyamaSaneyuki_2017 said:

Its armor is too weak. Oh well it's not too weak, but overall I'd say it's not Germanic level tough. If New York has turtle back boy it's going to steal every show it's ever been to.

Too bad game balancing is a thing.

Too bad a turtleback scheme wasn't a thing on the real New York.

Muddy the facts then cry about balance.  Wow.

Edited by Kuckoo

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6 hours ago, RivertheRoyal said:

I find it rather rare to citadel a New York or Texas. 

Really? Wow. I find them one of the easiest BB's to citadel and even dev strike. I like them both as well and have them both. Just don't find either overly tough.They give up cit's like a slot machine LOL. 

20hJs5B.jpg

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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New York is a Damage Sponge that really doesn't sponge too much damage.  The guns are fine, but everything else about her is very bad.

Poor armor plating.

Poor citadel protection.

Poor secondaries.

Poor speed.

Poor AA.

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I think people seem to greatly under estimate the guns on New York and Texas, though. I agree the ship is slow and has miserable secondaries, but her five 14 inch guns are *very* punchy for her tier, probably the best broadside at tier 10. Whenever I play Texas, I see people actually give me broadside and thinking me a non threat. And then I dev strike. Every time.

Also, remember that USN BBs get Artillery Plotting Room 1, and with it equipped, these guns have a range 19km which is really quite good at tier 5. Only Kongo is longer and Kongo's broadside is way less punchy.

I personally haven't touched New York in years, but I have Texas, play her once in a while, and do well with her. My last game, a tier 7 match no less, got me around 95k damage and 3 kills. She can handle herself when needed.

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Oh i want to answer this, can i?, can i?... ok here we go

6 hours ago, Belthorian said:

LOL Now I have to go home and consult the American Battleship bible. US Battleships an illustrated design history by Norman Freedman. Not that I am disputing your claim, just that It is something I did not know.

 

The All or nothing armor scheme is a type of armor that belongs to the Standard Type Battleships, begining with Nevada an ending with Colorado, as well as the Royal Navy Nelson class and if i remember correctly the King George V class too to some extent.

The main characteristics of the Standards are their Gun Armament layout (two forward, two aft), speed (21 kts), range and turning radius (don't remember any other). New York is at best a Super Dreadnought.

To the OP, no, historically New York did had this weak armor, and it did had flaws, in fact, it is very well represented in game.

 

 

Edited by Sidelock

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