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ked65

New players in co-op

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I just played a battle where a new player in a BB wasn't doing very well. Another  player and myself both tried to help him out with some good friendly advice. He ignored it and almost lost us the match. I looked him up after the battle and found out he is really new to the game. He has 72 total battles and all of them are in co-op. This is a good place for new players to learn the game. But wait... this was a tier 8 battle. 38 of his 72 battles are in tier 8 premiums !!!! Oh..... My....God. Just wait until he heads into randoms. It's too bad that there isn't some kind of filter to prevent this type of thing.  It would seem like a better experience for new players if they weren't allowed to get in so far over their heads. How many people quit because they make the same mistake and can't figure out why their teammates get salty with them? To each their own I guess.

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They are keeping the lights on, nothing wrong with that 

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Yep, this does happen, and nothing we can do, WG won't stop anyone from spending money on ships regardless of experience level. 

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Well, new players are often under the delusion that the higher tier the ship (especially a high tier premium) the better they will do. WG LOVES these types.  Count on it. $......and I actually don't blame WG.  It's only business. 

See....The Godfather

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I don't have a problem with WG selling the ships. It keeps the lights on so to speak.  I just wonder how many people have bad experiences when they buy high tier ships, fail at the game and then quit. Enjoying a good player experience would keep more people around long term wouldn't it? Long term players will more likely  spend more on the game overall. I can just imagine this guy getting frustrated and quitting the game and I think that would be a shame. We were friendly and were trying to help him. If he continues playing this way there are players that will get extreme with the salt and make this a bad experience for him. Will this lead to players quitting the game?

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1 minute ago, ked65 said:

I don't have a problem with WG selling the ships. It keeps the lights on so to speak.  I just wonder how many people have bad experiences when they buy high tier ships, fail at the game and then quit. Enjoying a good player experience would keep more people around long term wouldn't it? Long term players will more likely  spend more on the game overall. I can just imagine this guy getting frustrated and quitting the game and I think that would be a shame. We were friendly and were trying to help him. If he continues playing this way there are players that will get extreme with the salt and make this a bad experience for him. Will this lead to players quitting the game?

Makes sense. 

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I tell every new player going for battleships to leave and find another game to play. By this point it's glaringly obvious that neither the community or Wargaming itself wants people to play battleships or take enjoyment from it if they insist on playing the class anyway, so it's best if they take their time and money elsewhere before they get attached.

By now the WoWS community is worse than the WoW community if someone dares to say openly the enjoy playing Battleships and differs in the prevailing and overwhelming opinion of the company, contributors and community that they should be anything other than blind and effectively defenseless XP pinatas, so it's an easy warning to make.  If the new player questions it, I just send them here to take a gander at how "welcome" they are.

ADDENDUM: Ooooo. I angered a few of the DD mafia for chasing off a few of their new pinatas.

Edited by Highlord
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WG is simply trying really hard to give the bots at least 50% WR by making the players lose in co-op.

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36 minutes ago, ked65 said:

I just played a battle where a new player in a BB wasn't doing very well. Another  player and myself both tried to help him out with some good friendly advice. He ignored it and almost lost us the match. I looked him up after the battle and found out he is really new to the game. He has 72 total battles and all of them are in co-op. This is a good place for new players to learn the game. But wait... this was a tier 8 battle. 38 of his 72 battles are in tier 8 premiums !!!! Oh..... My....God. Just wait until he heads into randoms. It's too bad that there isn't some kind of filter to prevent this type of thing.  It would seem like a better experience for new players if they weren't allowed to get in so far over their heads. How many people quit because they make the same mistake and can't figure out why their teammates get salty with them? To each their own I guess.

He's spending money on the game.  Let him be.  

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  I bought me a Kutuzof  not long after I started playing.  It only took one match for me to realize I'd gotten myself in way over my head.   I set it aside, and only recently started trying it out again.   38 games is some serious masochism, there...   I thought the point was to have fun- not to get roflstomped by players far more experienced than you, or to lose match after match.

  Same holds true in Co-op:  the bots you face in tier 8+ battles are NOT the same ones you used as punching bags in tier 1 and 2 games...

  I'm guessing this player was in a Tirpitz, eh?

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7 minutes ago, ked65 said:

I don't have a problem with WG selling the ships. It keeps the lights on so to speak.  I just wonder how many people have bad experiences when they buy high tier ships, fail at the game and then quit. Enjoying a good player experience would keep more people around long term wouldn't it? Long term players will more likely  spend more on the game overall. I can just imagine this guy getting frustrated and quitting the game and I think that would be a shame. We were friendly and were trying to help him. If he continues playing this way there are players that will get extreme with the salt and make this a bad experience for him. Will this lead to players quitting the game?

You have a valid point, but there isn't a way to keep newbies from accessing high tiers until they're ready. It's not like anyone can ban them from buying and playing any high tier Premium ships...

As much as I'd also like to see more people stick around for long term, it was a voluntary choice of that individual (or just about any newbie) to buy a ship and jump straight into tiers that they aren't ready for. If this leads to them ultimately having a bad experience and quitting, so be it. It is what it is. Maybe it's better that way too, in some sense, because if such player cannot at least accept that they need to learn & improve themselves, let alone handle all the salt, then maybe this game may not be for them? Maybe they may not end up as a kind of team mate we would want to see in our team, in a long run?

Anyone truly willing to stick around and get better would probably do their own research to learn about the game, before seriously "committing" their wallets to it. At least, that's what I did. I tried the game out, liked it enough, and started snooping around the forums and Youtube videos to learn about as much as I can on how to play this game. I still consider myself as learning and practicing, so whenever I mess up and have a bad game I know it was me.

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21 minutes ago, ked65 said:

I don't have a problem with WG selling the ships. It keeps the lights on so to speak.  I just wonder how many people have bad experiences when they buy high tier ships, fail at the game and then quit. Enjoying a good player experience would keep more people around long term wouldn't it? Long term players will more likely  spend more on the game overall. I can just imagine this guy getting frustrated and quitting the game and I think that would be a shame. We were friendly and were trying to help him. If he continues playing this way there are players that will get extreme with the salt and make this a bad experience for him. Will this lead to players quitting the game?

I mostly agree, but that player decided to buy a tier 8 ship out of 10 tiers of ships most likely without any regard for the game mechanics. In my books he is kinda asking for it by avoiding his organic growth as a player. The MMORPG equivalent would be a guy buying a max level character, then consider himself capable of entering the hardest dungeons because he believes he can tackle any content. If you disregard game mechanics and the advice of people with more experience than you, then the game and the players themselves will disregard you. There is a limit to stubbornness and refusal to learn a game for which you just spent 40+ dollars...

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7 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

He's spending money on the game.  Let him be.  

My point is that I want new players to keep playing. It is good for WG and the player base. I am just concerned that when this type of thing happens it makes players quit.

 

8 minutes ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  I bought me a Kutuzof  not long after I started playing.  It only took one match for me to realize I'd gotten myself in way over my head.   I set it aside, and only recently started trying it out again.   38 games is some serious masochism, there...   I thought the point was to have fun- not to get roflstomped by players far more experienced than you, or to lose match after match.

  Same holds true in Co-op:  the bots you face in tier 8+ battles are NOT the same ones you used as punching bags in tier 1 and 2 games...

  I'm guessing this player was in a Tirpitz, eh?

Alabama. Don't sit stopped at 90 degrees to a bot Alabama. Bots will citadel you....no mercy....lol.

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I wish i knew how useful co op is when i started .   Now i play more co op to hone my skills ,  I didnt  even know of co op , wot has no mode like this so it took me awhile , but glad i found it.

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Just now, ked65 said:

My point is that I want new players to keep playing. It is good for WG and the player base. I am just concerned that when this type of thing happens it makes players quit.

If someone wants to spend money on the game, and then get told they can't spend the money, or even worse, they spent it, and now they can't use it...they'll quit even quicker.

Fact is, if they buy a premium, and then quit because they got clubbed in it...they weren't going to stick around anyway.  You hit T4 or T5, and you're going to get clubbed some, till you get better.   Just the way PvP games work.

 

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4 minutes ago, mavfin87 said:

If someone wants to spend money on the game, and then get told they can't spend the money, or even worse, they spent it, and now they can't use it...they'll quit even quicker.

Fact is, if they buy a premium, and then quit because they got clubbed in it...they weren't going to stick around anyway.  You hit T4 or T5, and you're going to get clubbed some, till you get better.   Just the way PvP games work.

 

I agree. Good point.

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A few points come to mind. First, one ship pretty much almost certainly really can't make you lose the game. Battles are so balanced that one or two ships more or less on one side may or may not have an effect. I actually win more when I'm afk, although I lack the restraint to profit from it. Secondly, I played co-op my first game because idk, it looked easy for starting out, and the other choice was random whatever that is. I asked what to do in my tier 1 cruiser, they told me, we won gg. Thirdly, this player is probably not going to do random, or if he tries it a few times, will never try it again (and I don't blame him). I suppose random pvp doesn't have a monopoly on bad tater captains, but I would think he will learn to play in co-op just as fast as he would have in random, if not faster because of the potential of surviving more. Sorry a bad bb ruined your co-op game. Let me know when your win rate in co-op drops under 50% and I will write WG a strongly worded letter about letting new players into high tier games without proper tutorials.

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1 hour ago, ked65 said:

But wait... this was a tier 8 battle. 38 of his 72 battles are in tier 8 premiums !!!! Oh..... My....God. Just wait until he heads into randoms.

He's gonna be like a week old puppy in a yard full of starving wolves. Oh well...

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1 hour ago, ked65 said:

I just played a battle where a new player in a BB wasn't doing very well. Another  player and myself both tried to help him out with some good friendly advice. He ignored it and almost lost us the match. I looked him up after the battle and found out he is really new to the game. He has 72 total battles and all of them are in co-op. This is a good place for new players to learn the game. But wait... this was a tier 8 battle. 38 of his 72 battles are in tier 8 premiums !!!! Oh..... My....God. Just wait until he heads into randoms. It's too bad that there isn't some kind of filter to prevent this type of thing.  It would seem like a better experience for new players if they weren't allowed to get in so far over their heads. How many people quit because they make the same mistake and can't figure out why their teammates get salty with them? To each their own I guess.

Well to tell the truth....Humans are rats, humans may have been the worse thing to happen in the last 10000 years. Women refused to help raise good people. They have failed and will continue to fail. People, like you get here in WoWS or WOW are without any fixes. This whole discussion is a useless debate. Humans are horrible things...uncontrollable things.

For battle chat.....STOP using it, you can't help, it only incites hate, animosity and bullying. New player should learn...if they don't or can't, they'll walk away. Just get on with next match and stay in random...co-op may drive you nuts.

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7 minutes ago, 44_percenter said:

 Sorry a bad bb ruined your co-op game. Let me know when your win rate in co-op drops under 50% and I will write WG a strongly worded letter about letting new players into high tier games without proper tutorials.

He didn't ruin my game. I did quite well. I don't play co-op for winrate. I simply saw someone playing in a way that did not seem like it was much fun and wondered if this was bad for the game or would make players want to quit.

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1 hour ago, ked65 said:

I just played a battle where a new player in a BB wasn't doing very well. Another  player and myself both tried to help him out with some good friendly advice. He ignored it and almost lost us the match. I looked him up after the battle and found out he is really new to the game. He has 72 total battles and all of them are in co-op. This is a good place for new players to learn the game. But wait... this was a tier 8 battle. 38 of his 72 battles are in tier 8 premiums !!!! Oh..... My....God. Just wait until he heads into randoms. It's too bad that there isn't some kind of filter to prevent this type of thing.  It would seem like a better experience for new players if they weren't allowed to get in so far over their heads. How many people quit because they make the same mistake and can't figure out why their teammates get salty with them? To each their own I guess.

Just do NOT tell these players about Randoms lol. If they want to learn how to play the game in tier 8 premium ships in Co-Op and it brings them enjoyment then that is ok. By the time they figure out about Random battle mode they might actually have enough experience under their belt to be an ok or even a good player.

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1 hour ago, ked65 said:

38 of his 72 battles are in tier 8 premiums !!!! Oh..... My....God. Just wait until he heads into randoms.

If all of those 38 games were in Co-Op it seems as though he knows better already than to jump into randoms...unless of course he doen't know which button changes from Co-Op to random...then heaven help his team when he figures that out. A shame there is no disclaimer in the premium shop warning new players that jumping straight into randoms in a T8 ship (just starting out) is a bad idea...because it happens all the time.

But you gotta ask yourself...is a person just gonna throw that $40.00 away because he has discovered he is in way over his head or is he going to continue playing to get as much out of his $40.00 that he has already spent...unfortunately for the meta the latter is the norm on that.

 

12 minutes ago, tincan_SC said:

Women refused to help raise good people.

I believe the "mommy didn't love me" thread is two doors down on the right...across the hall from the "abuse" room...check w/Monty Python for detailed directions.

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1 hour ago, Highlord said:

I tell every new player going for battleships to leave and find another game to play. By this point it's glaringly obvious that neither the community or Wargaming itself wants people to play battleships or take enjoyment from it if they insist on playing the class anyway, so it's best if they take their time and money elsewhere before they get attached.

By now the WoWS community is worse than the WoW community if someone dares to say openly the enjoy playing Battleships and differs in the prevailing and overwhelming opinion of the company, contributors and community that they should be anything other than blind and effectively defenseless XP pinatas, so it's an easy warning to make.  If the new player questions it, I just send them here to take a gander at how "welcome" they are.

ADDENDUM: Ooooo. I angered a few of the DD mafia for chasing off a few of their new pinatas.

I'm hardly DD Mafia, but, if you're scared of DDs, it's your problem.  Not ours.  And that's basically what your posts tell us.  You're scared shitless of DDs torping you.

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6 minutes ago, ked65 said:

He didn't ruin my game. I did quite well. I don't play co-op for winrate. I simply saw someone playing in a way that did not seem like it was much fun and wondered if this was bad for the game or would make players want to quit.

Now that's a valid question. Does being 'good' make the game more fun, and being 'bad' make the game not fun? Are bad players more likely to quit? Did he understand English or have chat turned off? With a premium ship, is he earning credits no matter what and doesn't care about performing? If bad players quit, will it make the playerbase 'better'? If the playerbase gets 'better' will WG make the game harder? Is it possible to play battleships in a way that is 'fun'? If the game isn't fun, can I cancel my subscription immediately? Does not running flags and only basic camo in random make me 'bad'? How 'good' should an average mule be after 72 games? Can DD secondaries shoot at a spotted target from inside smoke but outside 3 km range without making the DD be detected? Is it true that history repeats itself? Can a self defeating prophecy be true? Does the engine mod also make BB's stop from full power twice as fast? If nothing can go faster than light, how did darkness get there first?

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Use to be that you had to have x amount of battles played before you were allowed to post on the forum, so what would be wrong with making it that a player is not allowed to purchase certain tiers of premium ships until they get x amounts of battles played....its not telling them they cannot purchase them, it just gives them some sort of a goal to work towards.

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