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Skyfaller

Can someone explain Overpen when...

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This has always bothered me... quite a bit. 

First off I understand Overpens are essentially when the shell has so much pen power that it basically punches in one side of the ship and out the other without exploding inside the ship. That so much understandable. 

...but what gets me is, for example, a BB AP shell... being fired from 20km+ range at a cruiser who is head-on to the BB ... and the shell is aimed for and lands in, the forwardmost portion of the superstructure... and the shell is literally plunging down at more than a 75 degree dive...

and you get an overpen. ???

How? I get the shell would overpen the superstructure's weak armor.... and I get it would be an overpen IF the shell was traveling horizontally through the superstructure in one side out the other.

But in THIS case.. the shell is FALLING into the superstructure... overpenning the superstructure armor (so far so good)... but the shell SHOULD keep going DOWN and hitting the deck armor UNDER the superstructure, keep going and hit the CITADEL. There is no way the AP shell is overpenning the entire ship vertically AND going through the heavily armored citadel and not detonating. Particularly since this happens to any BB firing on a cruiser at long ranges (from 11 inch to 18inch BB guns). 

This can be reproduced consistently in the training server as well.  

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Shells lose a lot of pen at range so it's possible to overpen the superstructure and ricochet out.

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3 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Shells lose a lot of pen at range so it's possible to overpen the superstructure and ricochet out.

So Pen and then bounce?

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2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

So Pen and then bounce?

If it doesn't fuse inside the ship but causes damage it's an ovepen. Shells can go all wonky inside ships and the game stops rendering the shell once it interacts with the ship which is why you never see it exit the ship with an ovepen. 

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Shells have a fuse threshold, meaning they need to hit a certain thickness or armor for the fuse to even trigger. The bigger the shell, the higher the fuse threshold.

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It tended to happen in real life where a shell would enter the superstructure or the upper works above the citadel and shatter or richochet when it hit the citadel roof and fail to fuse because none of the armor outside of the citadel would be thick enough to fuse the shell. So that's why in the game you get an "overpen" rather then a "pen" or "citadel".

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31 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

 and the shell is literally plunging down at more than a 75 degree dive...

 

Pretty sure no BB shells are falling at that angle.

You have to be, AFAIK at 23+km just to get the shells to fall past 45 degrees and pass the plunging fire threshold.

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10 minutes ago, Lert said:

Shells have a fuse threshold, meaning they need to hit a certain thickness or armor for the fuse to even trigger. The bigger the shell, the higher the fuse threshold.

Building on this, once you reach that threshold the timing of the fuze comes into play. According to the wiki most shells have a timer of 0.033s meaning it could pen the superstructure and detonate once passing through but before penetrating the deck. Both of these facts make it possible to overpen a DD hull.

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2 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

Building on this, once you reach that threshold the timing of the fuze comes into play. According to the wiki most shells have a timer of 0.033s meaning it could pen the superstructure and detonate once passing through but before penetrating the deck. Both of these facts make it possible to overpen a DD hull.

Correct. However, fuse timing doesn't really come into play when hitting a ship's superstructure head on at long range. It's likely a case of the shell entering the superstructure through thing plating, the fuse not arming, and the shell bouncing around or exiting without the fuse ever triggering.

Still, very good point.

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4 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

This has always bothered me... quite a bit. 

First off I understand Overpens are essentially when the shell has so much pen power that it basically punches in one side of the ship and out the other without exploding inside the ship. That so much understandable. 

...but what gets me is, for example, a BB AP shell... being fired from 20km+ range at a cruiser who is head-on to the BB ... and the shell is aimed for and lands in, the forwardmost portion of the superstructure... and the shell is literally plunging down at more than a 75 degree dive...

and you get an overpen. ???

How? I get the shell would overpen the superstructure's weak armor.... and I get it would be an overpen IF the shell was traveling horizontally through the superstructure in one side out the other.

But in THIS case.. the shell is FALLING into the superstructure... overpenning the superstructure armor (so far so good)... but the shell SHOULD keep going DOWN and hitting the deck armor UNDER the superstructure, keep going and hit the CITADEL. There is no way the AP shell is overpenning the entire ship vertically AND going through the heavily armored citadel and not detonating. Particularly since this happens to any BB firing on a cruiser at long ranges (from 11 inch to 18inch BB guns). 

This can be reproduced consistently in the training server as well.  

I can explain with one word.....

RNGesus

 

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