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Katakis

Looking for name of German Destroyer (63)

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Hello,

My Grandfather served on this ship and i would like to know the name of the same. I think its a 1936 Type...i looked around but couldnt find any information regarding the hull number 63.

Even though my grandma is still alive and she would know  (thats where i got the picture from), shes sadly not in the condition to be questioned anymore.

Appreciate any help or pointers where to look at.

20180414_194729.jpg

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I can't find anything about a WWII era German destroyer with hull number 63, highest I can find is 45.

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The only thing that looks like that is the Leberecht Maass, Paul Jacobi, Diether von Roeder, Z23, and (or) Type 1936B destroyer. Sorry man.

Edited by CaptainMrEpic

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only thing i can find about the number 63
is that there was a radar named Fumo 63

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There is a type 1940 torpedo boat with that designation. It was never completed however, scuttled in situ. 

Only other thing I could come up with is maybe it's one with the number on it changed to confuse enemy recon. 

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This looks to be a Type 1936 destroyer. Sadly, I can't find anything on hull numbers in the Kriegsmarine at the immediate moment, but I'll keep looking.

Edited by Battleship_Howe

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Yes, looking around it's almost certainly running a fake number on the hull. 

Here's another example. 

https://www.bismarck-class.dk/german_destroyers/z22.html
Z-21 with a lick of paint to change her number, found a few examples of this so far. Nothing that matches this one though. 

Edited by TheGreyGhost91

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Well, add me to the ignorant ones but as best as I've found the number isn't the same as the ship number. In other words Z 18 wouldn't carry "18" on the hull. Instead the number is a tactical number designating flotilla/division (first number) and which ship it's in the flotilla (second number). Of course even if this information is correct you'd still have to know the organization of the German destroyer flotillas/divisions at different times. Although they stopped painting numbers on them after the war started so at least you know it's ship that was finished before the war, in other words it's at most a Type 1936 and not some of the later classes. Also a separate German source says Z1 Leberecht Maaß never carried one either.

Now on the other hand this site gives the numbers for all destroyers that carried one (in the tables as "Pennant number"). If we accept that as correct then you are looking at a Type 1934A and either Bruno Heinemann, Wolfgang Zenker or Bernd von Arnim.

Edited by Snowyskies

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This postcard would suggest the Destroyer you are looking for is Z9 Wolfgang Zenker, a Type 1934A-class Destroyer.

A3cO1.png

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45 minutes ago, Katakis said:

Hello,

My Grandfather served on this ship and i would like to know the name of the same. I think its a 1936 Type...i looked around but couldnt find any information regarding the hull number 63.

Even though my grandma is still alive and she would know  (thats where i got the picture from), shes sadly not in the condition to be questioned anymore.

Appreciate any help or pointers where to look at.

20180414_194729.jpg

Find out if she was in the Norwegian campaign and where she was sunk.

She seems to be the same ship class as the Diether von Roeder:

5ad27465c02b3_DiethervonRoeder.jpg.4b21937aa35d3b33dc216aa989fdda6a.jpg

 

17 Diether von Roeder was one of six built for the Kriegsmarine (German Navy) in the late 1930s.

During invasion of Norway  in April 1940, Z17 Diether von Roeder was tasked to attack Narvik. She was crippled by British destroyers during the first battle, but was able to severely damage a British destroyer during the second battle, before she had to be scuttled to prevent her capture.

EDIT: That number almost looks photo-shopped on.

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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3 minutes ago, zFireWyvern said:

This postcard would suggest the Destroyer you are looking for is Z9 Wolfgang Zenker, a Type 1934A-class Destroyer.

A3cO1.png

good work!

I think I see der Granpa on deck...

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6 minutes ago, TheGreyGhost91 said:

I believe it to be Z-9 Wolfgang Zenker. 

I think you may have nailed it. I was close, as she was also scuttled at Narvik, one of the most interesting campaigns of WW II and a German victory finally.

+1

Edited by Stauffenberg44

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Thanks for all the help. I found a you tube video showing all German destroyers and there was one also with 63 and named Wolfgang Zenker, but when i looked up the name on wiki, it shows number 64..so i wasn't sure which source to believe.The help here was way more substantial in informations.

All i know was that the ship was in a fight and eventually sunk. After 30 minutes in the cold sea he was eventually rescued.....i think it was a british ship.....not sure. I could check with my mom again. But i know he was in a british PoW camp in france during the end of the war and a shwort while after.

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1 minute ago, Katakis said:

But i know he was in a british PoW camp in france during the end of the war and a shwort while after.

He was a very lucky sailor your grandfather--likely spent the rest of the war here in Canada, which was not a bad thing. I'm sure your grandmother was glad. :)

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7 minutes ago, Katakis said:

Thanks for all the help. I found a you tube video showing all German destroyers and there was one also with 63 and named Wolfgang Zenker, but when i looked up the name on wiki, it shows number 64..so i wasn't sure which source to believe.The help here was way more substantial in informations.

All i know was that the ship was in a fight and eventually sunk. After 30 minutes in the cold sea he was eventually rescued.....i think it was a british ship.....not sure. I could check with my mom again. But i know he was in a british PoW camp in france during the end of the war and a shwort while after.

She is indeed sunk against the British in Norway. 

 

Quote

The five operable destroyers, including Wolfgang Zenker, charged out of Narvik harbor and engaged the British ships. Although no hits were scored, they did inflict splinter damage on several of the destroyers. Wolfgang Zenker was able to make a torpedo attack on Warspite before being driven off, but her torpedoes all missed. Lack of ammunition forced the German ships to retreat to the Rombaksfjorden (the easternmost branch of the Ofotfjord), east of Narvik, where they might attempt to ambush pursuing British destroyers. Wolfgang Zenker had exhausted her ammunition and she was beached at the head of the fjord.[17] Her crew placed demolition charges and abandoned the ship.[18] By the time the British reached the ship she had rolled over onto her side

 

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11 minutes ago, Katakis said:

Thanks for all the help. I found a you tube video showing all German destroyers and there was one also with 63 and named Wolfgang Zenker, but when i looked up the name on wiki, it shows number 64..so i wasn't sure which source to believe.The help here was way more substantial in informations.

All i know was that the ship was in a fight and eventually sunk. After 30 minutes in the cold sea he was eventually rescued.....i think it was a british ship.....not sure. I could check with my mom again. But i know he was in a british PoW camp in france during the end of the war and a shwort while after.

Hi Katakis - I believe GreyGhost did find your grandfather's ship - the Zenker had multiple pennant numbers - you'll also find pictures that have her w/ the pennant number 61, but this is the same ship - your search is over!

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1 minute ago, TheGreyGhost91 said:

She is indeed sunk against the British in Norway. 

Well it's true she was sunk, but on the other hand it was due to being scuttled by her own crew. That should mean they had time to evacuate without having to force anyone to be in the water. It would also mean he was unlikely to become a prisoner to the British at that point.

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Just now, Snowyskies said:

Well it's true she was sunk, but on the other hand it was due to being scuttled by her own crew. That should mean they had time to evacuate without having to force anyone to be in the water. It would also mean he was unlikely to become a prisoner to the British at that point.

Agreed. 

It's also early in the war (1940), so very likely to have gotten off and gone on to another assignment. But given the information we've got, best I can do is ship's records. Searching around isn't yielding any records of crew captures in the sinking either. 

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8 minutes ago, Katakis said:

Awesome!

I'd be careful about assuming that it's actually Wolfgang Zenker just yet, sorry about being a downer.

 

5 minutes ago, TheGreyGhost91 said:

But given the information we've got, best I can do is ship's records.

Yeah, it's difficult to know with the info we got and relying on the net only. I'd consider Bruno Heinemann a contender though at this point. Per bismarck-class.dk it carried the number 63 as well for a time and of the three (Bruno Heinemann, Wolfgang Zenker or Bernd von Arnim) it's the one I consider most plausible. It didn't sink in a battle as such, but at least it did sink due to enemy action (mine) rather than being scuttled in an orderly fashion. In other words crew could easily end up in the water. Secondly while reasonably close to the coast of the then German occupied Belgium it wasn't like the Germans were in control of the channel. That the crew were picked up by British vessels is a possibility, Wikipedia doesn't really say much about it.

Now granted if the ship actually was sunk in an actual gun battle then Bruno Heinemann isn't a candidate.

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True, it was rather early in the war and france was still france..or was just being about to be invaded. So i assume this is one ship he served on. They scuttled it and got reassigned or they got a new ship. Sadly i dont have much details. I can check with my mother if she has more informations or pictures.

However this is the ship he served on..at least at one point during his service time. its taken by another sailor..its not a picture from archives or something. it always stood and stillstands on my grandmas nightstand.

I could ask if she has closeups him in sailor uniform. They always had the name of the ship on the band around their hat....maybe its visible.

So this inquiry here is was successful. Regarding the name of this specific ship.

:)

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I talked to my mother a few days ago and informed her about the name of the destroyer.  I also asked about other ships her father would have served on, but she did not know. She did confirm though that he was a POW in France close to the end of the war. But thats all...she thinking about reading all the letters my grandparents exchanged during his service and as a POW,b but they're very personal belongings so she isn't sure if its right to intrude.

But today she said she found some KM badges. She send me two pictures of them and asked me what they are. It didnt took long to learn that its a Zerstoerer Kriegsabzeichen (Destroyer Warbadge) for those who participated in the norwegian campaign.

Not sure why is gold and one isnt. I only can assume one is for the Gala uniform and the other one to wear during regular service. If someone can confirm or deny, feel free to post here.

If i find out more ,i will post here. or if i want to find out the name of the ship of my grandfather ,on my fathers side. I know even less about his service. I think he was on a Cruiser.....really cant be sure. have to ask my father next time. However i do have his KM Binocular. Got them when i as nine and have them ever since.

Again, thanks for all the help.

 

20180416_164952.jpg

20180416_165051.jpg

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