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Your_Ship_Is_On_Fire

Did the Alsace get a stealth nerf?

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In the last 1-2 weeks I've noticed I'm getting a turret blown up much more frequently. Its getting worse to the point its happening 3 out of 5 games. This last game I had all three blown up which prompted this post. Is anyone else noticing this in the Alsace?

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Please don't take this personally, but why do people keep thinking that because something happened to them that there has been a stealth change to the game?

Richelieu and Alsace have turrets knocked out all the time. It's always been that way. I rarely go a game where I don't have one temporarily disabled and I've lost A turret completely in quite a few of my Alsace games. It's the nature of the flat sides,  the fact that high-tier BBs have enough firepower to knock them out, and Richelieu (especially) and Alsace tend to do a lot of bow tanking. 

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1 minute ago, Tzarevitch said:

Please don't take this personally, but why do people keep thinking that because something happened to them that there has been a stealth change to the game?

Richelieu and Alsace have turrets knocked out all the time. It's always been that way. I rarely go a game where I don't have one temporarily disabled and I've lost A turret completely in quite a few of my Alsace games. It's the nature of the flat sides,  the fact that high-tier BBs have enough firepower to knock them out, and Richelieu (especially) and Alsace tend to do a lot of bow tanking. 

Have never once lost a turret on the Riche....not even an incap....

And I've never heard people talking about losing turret on it. As you state, YMMV. 

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@Tzarevitch I think I have enough games in the Alsace to notice when something is up . I might actually have the most of any player in WoWs. Also, undocumented changes happen all the time. Its a thing. The Richelieu losing turrets? LOL

 

Edited by EpicFlails

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I aim at the turrets to blow them up. Maybe others are now doing the same.

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41 minutes ago, EpicFlails said:

@Tzarevitch I think I have enough games in the Alsace to notice when something is up .

 

It's actually quite unlikely that you have enough games played in the Alsace in the last couple of weeks to have any statistical confidence in hidden secret changes.  Also, it's definitely a loooooooooooooooooong running trend on this forum that after every patch someone has a run of bad luck in their favorite battleship and comes to the forum to ask if there were "stealth nerfs" (as if WG would actually have some reason to do that.)  Remember all those "I think they changed the dispersion of Tirpitz and/or Missouri" threads?

Having bad luck is often more memorable than having good luck.  You tend to notice streaks of it.  Battleships are effected more by luck than other ship types because of their less accurate, but more powerful guns.  Scoring lots of citadel hits or having enemy BB's pen your turrets is luck-based.

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There's been a slow but steady rise in the number of turrets that can get KO'd or disabled as of late; though I attribute it mainly to many starting to focus more on attempting to nuke the turrets when angled up against an effective attack.

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As a number of posters have pointed out, if you get into closer in situations with either the Riche or Alsace, it’s actually a strategy to aim at the turrets to knock them out.  It works well if you have one of the larger gun calibers or if the French BB player is not taking a module upgrade such as Main Armaments 1.  Those who have taken secondary or AA upgrade modules on this ships and find themselves in a closer in brawl type engagement find getting their turrets disabled is not an uncommon occurrence.

 

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14 minutes ago, hangglide42 said:

As a number of posters have pointed out, if you get into closer in situations with either the Riche or Alsace, it’s actually a strategy to aim at the turrets to knock them out.  It works well if you have one of the larger gun calibers or if the French BB player is not taking a module upgrade such as Main Armaments 1.  Those who have taken secondary or AA upgrade modules on this ships and find themselves in a closer in brawl type engagement find getting their turrets disabled is not an uncommon occurrence.

 

Exactly.They are also very big targets and have flat faces so they don't get the benefit of armor sloping. I get turrets disabled almost every match I get into close combat with either of them. I haven't had too many fully knocked out. I've never had one knocked out permanently on Richelieu, but I've had it happen a noticeable number of times in Alsace which is probably due to it being higher tier and running into more BBs with better penetration (Yamatos etc.). I've lost both forward turrets on Alsace (1 permanently, one disabled) a couple of times. 

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French 15" turrets are easy to KO, IMO.  It's been like this since they came out, even as far back when only some of them were attained via missions from some special crates.  I went into it as to why I believe they are the way they are.

French 15" turret fragility compounds if you don't take MAM1, which may very well happen with Non-Main Battery-Survival Builds.  OP, since you are playing Alsace, I'm betting you have a Secondaries Build and have AAM1.

 

I remember getting into a sub-10km brawl using Richelieu against a Missouri.  The Missouri's powerful 16"/50 American Piercing shells were absolutely demolishing my turrets.  Disabling them until 1 was destroyed for good, reducing my firepower to 50%.  If I had not had help with me, Missouri would have easily won that fight.  Richelieu, Gas Can, and Alsace use the same guns, same turrets.

 

When facing BBs with thin turret faces like Bismarck / Tirpitz, French 15" BBs, Lion, Conqueror 419, it's a very good idea to hit their fragile turrets.  Mind you, guys have been doing that for ages, even against Montana, Yamato turrets, but the thin turret faces of some of these BBs is a pronounced thing against BB AP shells.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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This thread has made me realize" hey start aiming at the turrets", It gets results more often than a Citadel. Thanks for your Complaint OP. 

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3 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

This thread has made me realize" hey start aiming at the turrets", It gets results more often than a Citadel. Thanks for your Complaint OP. 

It can often be the only choice when the target is angled / bow on, and you don't want to switch to AP.  Just smash the turrets.  If you got high pen guns like the 406mm+ or French 380mm/15", it's a very valid choice in a brawl.

 

Hell, at least you may get lucky and temporarily disable some guns so less shells are flying at you.  Even better if the target has had reasons to use their DCP earlier, i.e. they ate some fires, took a torp + flood and used DCP already.

 

Richelieu, Alsace in a forward profile have 8 guns.  Smash one turret and now it's only 4, and that's nothing anymore to worry about.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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18 hours ago, EpicFlails said:

@Tzarevitch I think I have enough games in the Alsace to notice when something is up . I might actually have the most of any player in WoWs. Also, undocumented changes happen all the time. Its a thing. The Richelieu losing turrets? LOL

 

I've been grinding Alsace to reach Republique. So far in 41 games I have never lost a turret. Yesterday I had several multiple kill games, including a Kraken and a four kill match. The ship feels exactly the same. 

Statistics are clumpy and some players will experience rare events more than others. That is likely the basis of your perceptions. 

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30 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

I've been grinding Alsace to reach Republique. So far in 41 games I have never lost a turret. Yesterday I had several multiple kill games, including a Kraken and a four kill match. The ship feels exactly the same. 

Statistics are clumpy and some players will experience rare events more than others. That is likely the basis of your perceptions. 

Kind of like when people rage about detonations and then you find out they've had 15 in 10,000 battles?

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16 hours ago, Amenhir said:

Kind of like when people rage about detonations and then you find out they've had 15 in 10,000 battles?

No, because 15 is lower than the average. He is having an above average experience. The clumpiness of statistics is one of the things that makes purely rare random events inserted into the game, like detonations, so unethical. 

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3 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

No, because 15 is lower than the average. He is having an above average experience. The clumpiness of statistics is one of the things that makes purely rare random events inserted into the game, like detonations, so unethical. 

I was referring to someone drawing the conclusion that they increased det chance because they've had two in a week.  The op drew the conclusion that Alsace has been stealth nerfed, but in actuality they've just been unlucky.  I agree with you.  I can't stand randomness or "luck" in gaming.  You can't mitigate against either.  It takes control away from the players.

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16 hours ago, Amenhir said:

I was referring to someone drawing the conclusion that they increased det chance because they've had two in a week.  The op drew the conclusion that Alsace has been stealth nerfed, but in actuality they've just been unlucky.  I agree with you.  I can't stand randomness or "luck" in gaming.  You can't mitigate against either.  It takes control away from the players.

Ah, I see. Thanks. 

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