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Visidious

Richelieu a good choice for T8 ranked?

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I am considering using the Richelieu as my main BB for T8 ranked. 

I have a higher win rate in my NC, but felt like the Richelieu was more powerful when I went up that line during the French Event.

I don’t see Richelieu mentioned much as a top choice among the T8 BB so I am posting there here in the BB section to see if there are any others wondering about this ship as well?

I found it was tanky, good guns, decent secondaries, good maneuvering with French speed boost which I think is important in ranked when often your up against DD alone later in matches at key moments.

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No, there are better ships. Meh guns, no armor, meh concealment. 

 

NC and Amagi have much better guns, Bismarck is much tankier with similar gun power. 

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51 minutes ago, Visidious said:

I am considering using the Richelieu as my main BB for T8 ranked. 

I have a higher win rate in my NC, but felt like the Richelieu was more powerful when I went up that line during the French Event.

I don’t see Richelieu mentioned much as a top choice among the T8 BB so I am posting there here in the BB section to see if there are any others wondering about this ship as well?

I found it was tanky, good guns, decent secondaries, good maneuvering with French speed boost which I think is important in ranked when often your up against DD alone later in matches at key moments.

I don't think that the Richelieu is more powerful than the NC.  The NC's guns are better.  That said, I don't see any reason why the Richelieu can't be successful in ranked.  It can play the tanky bow-on fighter, though I think that this is a waste of its true strengths, which are speed and maneuverability.  It has good AA and OK secondaries. However, I am a bit wary of whether playing a Richelieu as a flanking BB in Ranked is wise or not.  Generally speaking, going off by yourself in Ranked is a bad idea because you're weakening the rest of the team if you get too far away from them, as well as setting you up to be cut off from the rest of the team if the enemy is able to go after you instead.  Still, I think that there's room for some tactical flanking as long as you're not talking about being like 15 km off to the side and risking being cut off, etc.  Plus, there's also the risk that if you're off by yourself, an enemy DD will see that as an opportunity to go hunting the solo DD.

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I feel like Richelieu isn't very competitive. I do love her, and think she does very well in randoms, but I'm not sure about her in ranked, not against coordinated teams that know how to focus her down. But, you know, it's ranked, so play what you like, because you're up for a grind.

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honestly, any ship you feel comfortable in will be good enough for the T8 portion of ranked. as long as you're good enough in the ship to pull your weight, you'll get through. the real grind starts after rank 10, which is where i usually stop to save my sanity.

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I don't see how Richy performs better than other t8 BBs in really any way, everything about her is meh. Don't see her as a competitive ship in the least. However, the player is more important than the ship, so if you are comfortable in RIchiy... go for it.

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Richelieu is a good choice in the sense she has some utility. Her secondaries provide some extra damage potential and can wars of some destroyers. Her speed boost could be used to cap point by outrunning other battleships in certain situations. 

I dont feel like shes the best choice though, Bismarck takes that spot as the ability to use hydro can mitigate damage to both you and allies. She also has more effective secondaries.

The other tier 8 battleships all bring good guns and armor but sort of lack in any special gimmick that makes them extra useful.

Edited by Spieges

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Bow-Tanking Richelieu:

Depends on the other team.  A Kii or Tirpitz will take your bow-tank as it closes range and torps the snot out of you.

With the other T8 BBs, it'll fare OK.

Another danger to doing this is the HE Spamming cruisers like the Kutuzov and Chappy.  Cleveland will be joining those ranks as well.

Furthermore -- sitting duck for a wall of torpedoes, especially those 16 from the Harekaze (with torp reload).

.....

One of the excellent virtues of the Richelieu is the generous firing arc of the main guns.  They do well firing 'over the shoulder' when kiting.  In this case, you have a speed boost to your advantage.

Advise:  Charge in, but point yourself at an island to use as an escape turn - in case your team chickens out - so you don't get deleted by broadside hits.  DON'T hit reverse.  Keep moving and keep fighting (and stay alive).

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Hey

I think many people who get the idea that Richelieu, with all of her guns up front is only a bow tanking ship, is wrong in thinking that is her only play style.  She has good armour and does a very good job of flanking, has very good guns with good AP and decent HE when needed, her AA is decent and the high speed, especially with the speed boost allows you to reposition, maneuver, dodge and weave decently.  If your putting her in an only bow on game play, your not getting the most out of it.  Don't think of her as just a large Dunkerque, she is much more, much better.

 

Pete

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its a good ship, but I'll still be using my Alabama. That extra torpedo protection is hard to beat and her AA is second to none for her tier so you have CVs covered too.:fish_book: That and I don't have the rei yet....:fish_nerv:

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6 hours ago, Visidious said:

I am considering using the Richelieu as my main BB for T8 ranked. 

I have a higher win rate in my NC, but felt like the Richelieu was more powerful when I went up that line during the French Event.

I don’t see Richelieu mentioned much as a top choice among the T8 BB so I am posting there here in the BB section to see if there are any others wondering about this ship as well?

I found it was tanky, good guns, decent secondaries, good maneuvering with French speed boost which I think is important in ranked when often your up against DD alone later in matches at key moments.

Well I'm going to be using it too. Richelieu numbers wise on average is better than the NC. I have found the lack of interest in it for ranked surprising too because IMO it's pretty OP for a T8 BB and being able to bow tank without sacrificing any of your main battery is a sick advantage to have. 

 

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Richelieu should be fine in Ranked.  Last Tier VIII Ranked Season, all the BBs did decently to extremely well, there were no bad Battleships in VIII Ranked.  We're talking a very disparate group of BB playstyles:

Ranged gunners like Amagi, Kii

Intermediate fighters like NC, Alabama

Even brawlers like Bismarck, Tirpitz did just fine.

 

No reason to think Richelieu won't be able to keep up.  If anything, her AA will help protect her if Shokaku, Enterprise show up.  She should feel safer compared to Bismarck, Tirpitz, Amagi who will look to the skies in concern.  Don't expect much Cruisers to escort you.  Cruisers in general did poorly and will be fending for themselves or trying to stay alive from all the BBs showing up.

ugSUitV.jpg

As you can see, Tier VIII Ranked, in terms of Battles Played, is a BB-DD affair.  Don't expect much Cruisers to provide AA.

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I'm going to say no.  The Richelieu is not particularly good at engaging DDs or Cruisers because the HE shells aren't good enough to justify having them pre-loaded, and almost all AP shells will over-penetrate.  She can brawl Battleships but I'm finding the Richelieu is not particularly great at damage dealing nor are the secondaries all that deadly against DDs.  She's got monstrous alpha against Battleships, but that niche isn't really applicable against the smoke and radar meta of ranked.  Only thing she's got going for her is that powerful mid-range AA battery, high speed and anti-battleship capability.  Richelieu is niche and far less flexible then the Dunkerque at tier 6 ranked.  Your going to need your teammate to help you deal with DDs in smoke or Cruisers firing on you in the open, and ranked is just full of randoms that wont listen to your support requests.

Edited by Sventex

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15 hours ago, Aristotle83 said:

Well I'm going to be using it too. Richelieu numbers wise on average is better than the NC. I have found the lack of interest in it for ranked surprising too because IMO it's pretty OP for a T8 BB and being able to bow tank without sacrificing any of your main battery is a sick advantage to have. 

Bow tanking in Richelieu against decent players will result in your turrets getting incapacitated or destroyed. It is hilariously easy to take out her turrets when she tries to bow-tank. 

Angle her a bit. Also, as others have suggested, kiting and shooting over the shoulder works very well; she shrugs off most damage when well-angled from the rear and she has pretty good firing arcs to fire over her shoulder, plus adding in her aft-mounted secondaries.

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I would agree that bow-tanking is mostly useful only in Random, as better players aim for your turrets, and a NC or Amagi will definitely knock them out.  Flanking and keeping on the move work far better.

The real problem I have with the Richelieu is the crappy dispersion. Not just the raw dispersion, which isn't bad, but the level of scatter that I see shells make at all ranges.

I just finished a game which perfectly illustrates this problem:  at 10km, against a broadside stopped Alsace, the 2 salvos I got managed to hit... twice.  Not 1 pens, two HITS.  An again, against a bow-tanking Des Moines at 6km, the shells were so horrible that from 5 salvoes, aiming at his front turrets, I managed a total of 5 hits - 1 pen and 4 overpens. The other 85% of the shells just flew all over the place. 

That's a common occurrence in the Richelieu - you aim well, but the guns underperform BADLY.  The problem is the quad turrets, which put 4 shots together, and the dispersion mechanics really screws the pattern over. Frankly, dual gun turrets are FAR superior to the quad turrets in this game.

The guns just don't produce reliable hits at all, even at ranges where they really should. In fact, I think the Bismark's guns are better all around.  And, of course, the Richelieu's secondaries, while impressive, are terrible for DPM.  It's one of the reasons I think the 152mm French secondaries should be shooting AP, not HE.  The fire chance simply doesn't compensate at all for the awful DPM. 

So, yeah, while I find the Richelieu to be fun to play in Random, I'd take a Bismark/Tirpitz over it for close-in work, and the NC/Amagi over it for long-range accurate fire.

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I'm not that impressed with bow tanking in the Richelieu.  Oh, yes, given that all her guns are up front, it seems like an obvious tactic to use.  But it seems like a bad tactic for the Richelieu because you're giving up so much of the Richy's strength, which is speed and maneuverability.

Now, only time will tell how the Richy works out in Ranked, since Ranked tends to play out differently than Randoms.  But I find that my best games in the Richelieu come when I use her speed and maneuverability to their greatest advantage.  Early on, kiting, sometimes a little HE spamming of BBs to get them burning, but always ready to switch to AP.  She can be a great brawler, particularly when you use her speed boost to out run and out turn an enemy's turrets.  OTOH, I've found her secondaries to be rather pathetic, because they do so little damage.  But her AA is solid.

 

I've loved my Richelieu in my time in her.  And I ground through her so fast that I just earned enough XP to research the Alsace, and it didn't seem like all that long ago that I bought the Richy.  And it's not like I've been hard  grinding her.  Mostly just 1-3 battles per day to get her daily.  I doubt that I'll use her in Ranked because I prefer playing DDs over BBs in ranked.  Time to graduate to the Alsace.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

Time to graduate to the Alsace.

As an aside, you're going to LOVE Alsace. Alsace and Republique have become my favorite BBs in-game by far. :D 

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3 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

As an aside, you're going to LOVE Alsace. Alsace and Republique have become my favorite BBs in-game by far. :D 

I am very undecided on how to setup the Alsace, both in terms of skills and upgrade modules.  I know that some say that she's a good brawler, but I'm not a huge fan of brawling.  I do it when it seems necessary, but I am more comfortable in the mid range.

Any thoughts?

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3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I am very undecided on how to setup the Alsace, both in terms of skills and upgrade modules.  I know that some say that she's a good brawler, but I'm not a huge fan of brawling.  I do it when it seems necessary, but I am more comfortable in the mid range.

Any thoughts?

I have mine set up as a brawler and love it. But I also prefer brawling. So this build may or may not work for you, YMMV obviously. 

Alsace 19-point build: With my 19-point Alsace Captain, I run PT, PM, Adrenaline Rush, Super (extra heal and speed boost), AFT, Manual Secondaries, IFHE (note that IFHE is solely because of 100mm secondaries, French BBs are AP slingers like all other non-RN BBs).

Alsace upgrades: I use secondary upgrade in the 500k credit slot but main gun reload upgrade in the 3-mil credit slot. 

My 19-point Republique captain build: PT, Expert Marksman, Adrenaline Rush, Super, BFT, AFT, Manual Secondaries. 

(I go into my rationale for my Alsace and Republique builds (esp why I take IFHE for Alsace and not for Republique) in this comment here: 

 

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52 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I am very undecided on how to setup the Alsace, both in terms of skills and upgrade modules.  I know that some say that she's a good brawler, but I'm not a huge fan of brawling.  I do it when it seems necessary, but I am more comfortable in the mid range.

Any thoughts?

The beauty of Alsace is that there is no one, best way to build her.  The reason is because she has so many decent qualities that are fit to build up and base your spec around.

 

Personally I did an IFHE Secondaries Build.  Sec.Builds on Alsace are mean, nasty.

You can do an AA Build if you want, the foundation to have a great one is there.

Or you can slot ASM1+MBM3 for a Main Battery / Stealth / Survival Build.  That works out just fine also.  In a Secondaries Build I felt her gunnery was already good to go, so I can imagine how much more fun guys are having with ASM1+MBM3 on their Alsace Builds.

 

Tier for tier, IMO she is one of the most all-around BBs in the game, and more importantly, a pleasure to use.

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

I am very undecided on how to setup the Alsace, both in terms of skills and upgrade modules.  I know that some say that she's a good brawler, but I'm not a huge fan of brawling.  I do it when it seems necessary, but I am more comfortable in the mid range.

Any thoughts?

Even if your not a fan of brawling, good secondaries are still excellent insurance against DDs.

Edited by Sventex

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39 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Even if your not a fan of brawling, good secondaries are still excellent insurance against DDs.

That moment when Alsace secondaries are firing on a DD.  You can see the panic set in.

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9 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The beauty of Alsace is that there is no one, best way to build her.  The reason is because she has so many decent qualities that are fit to build up and base your spec around.

 

Personally I did an IFHE Secondaries Build.  Sec.Builds on Alsace are mean, nasty.

You can do an AA Build if you want, the foundation to have a great one is there.

Or you can slot ASM1+MBM3 for a Main Battery / Stealth / Survival Build.  That works out just fine also.  In a Secondaries Build I felt her gunnery was already good to go, so I can imagine how much more fun guys are having with ASM1+MBM3 on their Alsace Builds.

 

Tier for tier, IMO she is one of the most all-around BBs in the game, and more importantly, a pleasure to use.

I actually use MBM3 in my Alsace even though in all other respects I'm a straight IFHE/secondaries build. Her main guns are nasty enough that I want the quick reload since it's useful both when brawling and when forced to fight at midrange (team won't support a push, trying to conserve hp and waiting for heals, etc.) One of the things I love most about French BBs is that they're still very effective even when pushed back to midrange, whereas most German BBs lose more of their effectiveness when pushed out of secondaries range. I'm still always looking for ways to close the range, but MBM3 is more value to me than the secondaries upgrade in that slot because of that versatilty. 

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On 4/15/2018 at 5:17 AM, poeticmotion said:

Bow tanking in Richelieu against decent players will result in your turrets getting incapacitated or destroyed. It is hilariously easy to take out her turrets when she tries to bow-tank. 

Angle her a bit. Also, as others have suggested, kiting and shooting over the shoulder works very well; she shrugs off most damage when well-angled from the rear and she has pretty good firing arcs to fire over her shoulder, plus adding in her aft-mounted secondaries.

I will try and follow this advice. 

Edited by Aristotle83

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