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SeanOrnery

Ultimate Frontier Buffed?

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I know the folks want to make the Ops challenging. But tell me; Am I crazy or did they buff the "Ultimate Frontier" op. I know I'm not the greatest player ever, but I haven't won an Op in TWO DAYS!! I did over 132k damage in my last try and we weren't even CLOSE!! Anyone else getting frustrated with this?

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Just now, SeanOrnery said:

I know the folks want to make the Ops challenging. But tell me; Am I crazy or did they buff the "Ultimate Frontier" op. I know I'm not the greatest player ever, but I haven't won an Op in TWO DAYS!! I did over 132k damage in my last try and we weren't even CLOSE!! Anyone else getting frustrated with this?

That's the rumor...

They felt ops were to easy and were drawing too many people from random, easy to grind with flags and camo when you win 80%+ of your battles.:Smile_teethhappy:

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That makes sense. But we have a large Clan that likes to play together and, for now at least, the Ops are our only option. It made for a very frustrating night for everyone last night.

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2 minutes ago, SeanOrnery said:

That makes sense. But we have a large Clan that likes to play together and, for now at least, the Ops are our only option. It made for a very frustrating night for everyone last night.

Same for our clan best we could do was 4 stars

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The spawns of the ships have been greatly altered.  For instance, as soon as the initial southeast bots and the Omaha & Atlanta in the northeast spawns have been dealt with, it was a winning move for a Fast BB to sail straight to where the CV is in the southwest.  Do it early on and you can bag the Cleveland and Ranger.  Do that now, and you get Ranger, Cleveland and 2 DDs.  The Cleveland and DDs are laser accurate, I only wish my Cleveland was that accurate at those long ranges.  On top of that, you may get the BB+CL spawn also.  So doing that old trick where Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, or whatever BB sailing right away to the CV will get them surrounded.

 

IMO, the best move now is to defend the middle and work off the priority targets, then look for an opportunity for a ship or two to rush for the CV.

 

A CV of your own helps in spotting the Ranger so that ships like KGV, Nagato, Scharnhorst, or whatever take pot shots at it, as well as any Cruisers that are within range.

 

Another change was the objective to save the forts.  In the past it was 2 or more.  Now it's 3 and the southern 2 forts are often easily destroyed.  This further emphasizes middle defense.  Also, the enemy bombers are now a lot more effective on the forts.  It may well be worth it to keep a BB like Colorado, Lyon, Gneisenau with good AA to guard the forts at the beginning, because the 2 default fighter spawns let the bombers nuke the forts.

 

A CV of your own can GREATLY aid in base air defense, as you would no longer need a BB to babysit the forts until the rest of the team arrives at the middle.

 

If anything, the changes made a CV more important than they were in the older versions of this Operation.

 

Normally I play a BB in this operation, and go straight away to neutralize the Omaha and Atlanta in the northeast for the start.  But I'm seeing the value of a good AA BB staying at the start.  But then again I'm loathe to let most players handle the northeast due to people screwing it up.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Yup, its buffed alright. I think all the AI DDs got Survivability expert and I believe the rest of the ships are much more accurate. Whats worse however is the tendency of the bots to focus fire...

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The operation you are running is a big factor too. Raptor Rescue has always been challenging while some of the others are almost easy.

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Yea I’ve been trying it for the last two days and every time the team gets nuked.

 

edit: PSA please don’t bring DDs to operations. They are extremely useless.

Edited by gmrbull
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yeah, they made it next to impossible to do with randoms. i got one 2 star, one loss, and gave up. i'm not one to give up easily, but the changes they made make it so overwhelming that it's just not worth it to try. i don't think they actually play-tested it after they made the changes.

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Considering, last night for example, Very competent players + a CV driver, we some how we managed to get 5 stars.  The cruiser team HAS to achieve 8 kills MiN. AND rush the CV in order to get 5 stars.

The other example is where I got a dozen kills, no CV and manage to survive with 2 stars.

This is not a DD friendly Operation, DD are reduced to spotting role where there is no CV in the match

The Red CV is now a BB primery/secondary target since cruisers are going center or right to fend off attacks.

This is nothing compared to NS New port, with the new changes its getting up there in difficulty in team play standards.

 

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21 minutes ago, gmrbull said:

Yea I’ve been trying it for the last two days and every time the team gets nuked.

 

edit: PSA please don’t bring DDs to operations. They are extremely useless.

 

16 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Considering, last night for example, Very competent players + a CV driver, we some how we managed to get 5 stars.  The cruiser team HAS to achieve 8 kills MiN. AND rush the CV in order to get 5 stars.

The other example is where I got a dozen kills, no CV and manage to survive with 2 stars.

This is not a DD friendly Operation, DD are reduced to spotting role where there is no CV in the match

The Red CV is now a BB primery/secondary target since cruisers are going center or right to fend off attacks.

This is nothing compared to NS New port, with the new changes its getting up there in difficulty in team play standards.

 

Seriously guys, destroyers can excel in any operation if you know what you're doing. Take a look at these replays.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

To answer the original first post, yes the operation has gotten harder. A destroyer can still easily excel and do lots of damage and come out on top. With some revising of the strategy, I've done 178k and 179k already since the change that made it harder. It likely wouldn't be all that much harder to break 200k once more.

 

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23 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A CV of your own can GREATLY aid in base air defense, as you would no longer need a BB to babysit the forts until the rest of the team arrives at the middle

Useful observations!  With nearly a full team, the Pros from Dover finally managed to 5-star it last night.

Hiryu joined us on a previous try and proved surprisingly effective. 

Biggest problem I see is that the final SW and ESE spawns are nearly simultaneous now...

 

29 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I think all the AI DDs got Survivability expert and I believe the rest of the ships are much more accurate. Whats worse however is the tendency of the bots to focus fire...

Wouldn't surprise me at all.  The Mahans are especially hard to kill.

 

13 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

This is not a DD friendly Operation, DD are reduced to spotting role where there is no CV in the match

NOT true.  Our resident DD was effective, though perhaps not so much as in the old version where the spawns were more staggered. Especially, DD is far more effective in NE by close-torping Omaha and Atlanta than a BB that has to eat fire while they die, then is out of position for a long while.  (One wild Scharnhorst ate too much and headed for the repair circle leaving Atlanta alive.  Instant Fail.)

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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

NOT true.  Our resident DD was effective, though perhaps not so much as in the old version where the spawns were more staggered. Especially, DD is far more effective in NE by close-torping Omaha and Atlanta than a BB that has to eat fire while they die, then is out of position for a long while.  (One wild Scharnhorst ate too much and headed for the repair circle leaving Atlanta alive.  Instant Fail.)

Heh, not close torping, I actually use my max torpedo range, and I think you mean Cleveland and Atlanta.

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Well if you're greedy you can kill Cleveland too.  :Smile_izmena:

:fish_cute_2:

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

A CV of your own can GREATLY aid in base air defense, as you would no longer need a BB to babysit the forts until the rest of the team arrives at the middle.

Might as well screw around doing effectively nothing but swatting flies; more DF ships than you can shake a stick at make it pointless to do much else.

2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Another change was the objective to save the forts.  In the past it was 2 or more.  Now it's 3 and the southern 2 forts are often easily destroyed.  This further emphasizes middle defense.  Also, the enemy bombers are now a lot more effective on the forts.  It may well be worth it to keep a BB like Colorado, Lyon, Gneisenau with good AA to guard the forts at the beginning, because the 2 default fighter spawns let the bombers nuke the forts.

Meanwhile the bot forts in the other scenarios are armed with laser CIWS and cream entire bomber squads without even trying...

...isn’t balanz fun?

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Actually, this scenario are unplayable. Nice WG (sarcasm). Hope not all the maps being so bad like this. A challenge its nice, but in this state, its garbage. (sorry f my english). o7

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Tried it a few times last night and not a single team could get passed the first wave, let alone the 2nd.  It was just stupid.  I'm all for a challenge, but if ops start requiring a full division, then forget it.  Will try it again tonight, but I'm not expecting much.

Edit:  Attempted it again tonight.  Even 182,000 damage in my Yorck wasn't enough to get a win. This op needs to be rolled back to its previous level of difficulty.

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I think someone on the development team took all that operations farming personally.

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I ran this twice last night and had mixed results.  First round I was in a Nagato and was the only ship that headed NE to take out the Omaha and Atlanta.  I did that but we lost our NPC Aoba and then turned to the west.  I took a few pot shots at the Wyoming and NY before the died.  The rest of my team gathered at the heal fountain while I steamed West to prepare for the next wave and CV that come from that side.  A group of 3 or 4 Cruisers spawned on the east side of the map and made a beeline to the Aerodrome.  My entire team was out of position and we didn't even get shots off at that spawn.

The next round I played in an AS Saipan.  I used my fighters to spot the early DD and keep the BB spotted.  Then I started noticing things I didn't remember.  One of our cruisers had managed to make it to the heal circle about the same time as the first wave of BB died.  He managed to spot some DD around there so I vectored my fighters over the area and uncovered a few of them.  This wasn't the whiskey strike force that spawns later though.  We killed those off and I was getting ready for that unexpected cruiser spawn from my Nagato game and it never appeared.  The Raptor CV and its task force showed up and we started taking them out while I kept the CV spotted and planes occupied.  The Whiskey force spawned and they died relatively fast and we finished taking out the rest of the enemy ships.  The fighting had actually stopped and then all of a sudden there comes that cruiser spawn from the east.  My ship was parked near the east side forts and came under fire so I started moving away at full speed.  We managed to take them out but lost 2 forts and a couple of buildings in the process ending up with a 4 star win.

I don't think they made the scenario any harder as the spawns seemed to be the same ships but I do think they varied the timing of those spawns.  You can't plan out where to be or what too look for anymore so that's what makes the mission harder.

As a side note I feel like WG should look at possibly raising the exp for spotting damage.  I did about 30k direct damage mostly to DD, which is pretty low overall but I feel is acceptable for an AA heavy op in an AS Saipan.  I also shot down more than half of the planes downed by my entire team.  The real issue is I also had 256k spotting damage for that op which to me that feels like a lot.  I ended up dead last on base exp with about 950.  The first place team mate had about 1400.  The rest of the team was spread pretty evenly.

It seems to me like spotting damage is not weighted heavily enough in these operations.  For PVP it probably works because you also get capture and defense exp to help out those ships that are primarily scouting.  In operations no one gets those points so maybe some compensation for spotting and even potential damage is in order.

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3 hours ago, awiggin said:

That's the rumor...

They felt ops were to easy and were drawing too many people from random, easy to grind with flags and camo when you win 80%+ of your battles.:Smile_teethhappy:

A lot of people don`t like random and the only thing this will do is drive them from this game.

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Just now, cecill611 said:

A lot of people don`t like random and the only thing this will do is drive them from this game.

I know...never said it was a smart move...:Smile_teethhappy:

But WG seems determined to bully their players into playing the way they want them too, serious players spend more money.

The fact that it's the basis of their retention issues seems to be ignored....

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Why WG made the operation harder and didn`t tell us? Now you can get overwhelmed easily. When you annouced that were going to rework at Narai, I was excited and thought: 'cool, a Narai 2.0'. Now I'm afraid after what you've done with Ultimate Frontier.

Will we see a Montana instead the Missouri? a Midway with AP bombs instead the Raptor? Bot ships that can use radar and hydro?

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54 minutes ago, cecill611 said:

A lot of people don`t like random and the only thing this will do is drive them from this game.

 ^ this ... in one of the other threads on this issue (this is about the 5th I've seen today alone) I mentioned that 30-35%+ of the player base play Co-Op/Operations almost exclusively. I'm here primarily for the Operations nowadays, if this is how it's going to be I might be taking a long break ... and keeping my wallet closed. 

Ultimate Frontier is basically unplayable in it's present state. Aegis was also noticeably harder post 7.3 but you could at least be guaranteed a good chance of winning with 1-3 stars, in Ultimate Frontier winning is like a miracle. I've won UF exactly 3 times in the last 2 days and I've played about 10 battles and neither of those 3 times did we get more than 2 stars.

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I've had mixed results so far, one 5 star running the Lyon and trust me I earned it. 9 kills and +230k damage. A lot of losses and some 3/4 stars. What I've noticed is the bot fire chance seems to be majorly buffed. I'm having double fires set on me with the first salvo. I had the CV set 4 with one squad and 2 isnt uncommon. Even the Clemson seems to have turned into a flamethrower. Another thing is the bots seem to be dead set on wiping out the forts and aerodrome.

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If my Akizuki did as much damage as the Superbot DDs do I could take out all must any BB in random.

Plus  your ship is cover in gas.

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