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Snarky_Wombat

Should CE be revamped and reworked?

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Hi all,

I was thinking about my new DD line grind and how much I am looking forward to getting at least one captain to 10 points purely for the concealment expert skill.  It seems to me that if such a powerful skill is more or less completely mandatory for almost every ship in the game we should possibly look at standardising it into a more basic framework like we did with detection skill back in the day.  Something like integrating it into the base ship or a ship upgrade or even making it a 1 pt skill etc.

What are your thoughts on removing concealment expert from the captain tree, moving it to the ship itself or even just tinkering with it so that it isn't such a massive must have and power multiplier at the same time?

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I haven't had to grind a captain since elite commander xp came out. Sitting on 28 19 point captains I shuffle between my t10s, a few tech tree t8s, and my premiums. Currently sitting on 3.3 million elite commander xp if I ever need another 19 pointer or two

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That's nice.  Anyone else? 

I figure it's probably not a problem for the people with tons of free xp and commender xp but the mechanic is there all the same.  I just feels a bit unbalanced and arbitrary given how it's such a must have.

Constructive thoughts?

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CE is fine where it is. CL and BB can (and do) take skill too. It forces the person to decide what kind of skill layout they want.

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Yes and that's my point, almost every single ship takes it, especially DD's.  It's not really a choice then?  Would it not be better to meld it into the ship or such things and have more room for real captain skill choice and flavour?

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^^^^ Pretty much what Draco said. I dont think its a must have for everything. I dont use it for RU DD's, too much other good stuff for that play style. 

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If the problem is earning the first 10pts, then I think the first 10pts should be even easier to earn.

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I was talking to a clanmate not long ago and I seem to remember there being a skill that they rolled into all ships - he hasn't played as long and as a result doesn't know.  I can't remember what it was, but I seem to remember it being a *mandatory* skill to take.  I am not sure if this pre-dates the 4 level skill tree or not...or I could be completely wrong.   Anyone else remember this?

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Thing is all tier 4 captain skills are very powerful. While I agree that CE is the most universally loved, you have skills like IFHE that turns light cruisers into unholy DPM terrors, AFT which is beloved by RU DDs and every AA and secondaries build, or RPF which is used extensively in competitive matches. Asking for CE to be made universal would be the same as asking for those to be as well.

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3 minutes ago, BruDog1970 said:

I was talking to a clanmate not long ago and I seem to remember there being a skill that they rolled into all ships - he hasn't played as long and as a result doesn't know.  I can't remember what it was, but I seem to remember it being a *mandatory* skill to take.  I am not sure if this pre-dates the 4 level skill tree or not...or I could be completely wrong.   Anyone else remember this?

Situational Awareness used to be 1pt skill

BFT was a 1pt skill

last stand was a 4pt skill

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Perhaps it's just overpowered compared to the other Tier 4 skills. Would making it a flat 8% bonus to detectability make it less of a required pick?

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9 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

If the problem is earning the first 10pts, then I think the first 10pts should be even easier to earn.

Actually, a very good point there.  Maybe this could work too?

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TBH I don't think they'll react too well for requests for a four-point skill to be made global. You'd have a better chance requesting Priority Target for that.

4 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

Situational Awareness used to be 1pt skill

BFT was a 1pt skill

last stand was a 4pt skill

I would have loved to have BFT early on some of my ships. Then again, I'm even more pleased that I don't have to work up to a 10-point captain to get Last Stand; that one has saved me too many times. The sad thing about the skill tree re-tweak is that it makes the captain-build advice on many older YouTube vids somewhat obsolete. What to go for hasn't changed much, but the order in which you get it and the timing are very different.

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

TBH I don't think they'll react too well for requests for a four-point skill to be made global.

Myabe, maybe not.  It never hurts to talk about these things :)

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I'd say leave it as it is, if you got it, it means you earned it (maybe). Otherwise, why have skills in this game?

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4 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Otherwise, why have skills in this game?

Yes, totally agree.  However, when certain functions become a must have over everything else then it's not really keeping with the idea of the Captain skills in the first place is it?  Sure, you earned it but it doesn't provide differing flavour to the ships handling and specifications.  It's just a flat out force boost that you must take just to stay even with everyone else.  It's less choice not more and just seems counter-intuitive to me.

Edited by Snarky_Wombat
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That's what base concealment is all about.  Integrating CE into the concealment value would essentially be the same as changing all base ship concealment and eliminating the CE skill.

 

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5 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Yes, totally agree.  However, when certain functions become a must have over everything else then it's not really keeping with the idea of the Captain skills in the first place is it?  Sure, you earned it but it doesn't provide differing flavour to the ships handling and specifications.  It's just a flat out force boost that you must take just to stay even with everyone else.  It's less choice not more and just seems counter-intuitive to me.

I guess one way of seeing it, CE is there to provide a... means of deterring players from whining about their concealment. They already are but once you got it, it is hard to speak about it.

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53 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

Hi all,

I was thinking about my new DD line grind and how much I am looking forward to getting at least one captain to 10 points purely for the concealment expert skill.  It seems to me that if such a powerful skill is more or less completely mandatory for almost every ship in the game we should possibly look at standardising it into a more basic framework like we did with detection skill back in the day.  Something like integrating it into the base ship or a ship upgrade or even making it a 1 pt skill etc.

What are your thoughts on removing concealment expert from the captain tree, moving it to the ship itself or even just tinkering with it so that it isn't such a massive must have and power multiplier at the same time?

WG did this with the "sixth sense" skill a number of patches back.  They decided to bake the skill into cap'ns.  As I recall it wasn't a particularly controversial decision for WoWs as the "sixth sense" skill was only a 1-pt skill.  Although arguably they put a "sixth sense" skill requirement right back into the game in the form of the "how many guys" are aimining at me skill.  I take this 1-pt skill in almost 100% of my captains.  Why not bake this skill in as well?

Digressing a bit -- but it was a really big deal when WG started talking about baking the "sixth sense" skill into tank commanders\radio operators for World of Tanks.  In WoT, aquiring this skill required a large investment of player time.  A lot of people were pissed at having invested a lot of time into training tank commanders into this skill, only to have WG arbitrarily talk about making it a baked in skill for all tank commanders (or radio operators).

I'd say once I have a captain at 10-skill pts, I'll take the concealment skill about 90% of the time over other 4pt-skill options.  However, I also like to mix it up for Scenario and Co-Op as I see almost zero advantage/reason in investing 4-skill points into concealment when fighting BOTs/The AI.  I have a couple captains I use exclusively for Co-Op and Scenarios when various WoT mission tasks can be completed easier in PvE than Randoms or Ranked battles.

 I think not having it a baked in skill provides an advantage to people like myself that have a lot of 19-pts captains.  Its therefore an advantage to me to not see the skill simply removed in favor of players with fewer hours invested into game play and captain training.  I did my time to earn the skill -- why shouldn't you have to invest the same level of time to get this advantage?   

But I can also see the OPs point regarding it being a defacto choice for almost 90% of the ship inventory in this game.  So why not just reduce the detection range of all ships accordingly and delete the skill?  My argument would be that there are a number of skills that are almost automatic requirements for a captain -- dependent upon ship class.  Should these skills also be baked into my captains? 

Edited by Dr_Dirt

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If CE were baked in, it would be an effective buff to ships/builds that do not universally take the skill at present - Russian DD builds,  certain BB builds, carriers that take the add-a-plane (not a CV player!) skill first, etc.  It would also be an effective buff to skill-hungry ships (unless the captain skill cap were lowered to 15 points in conjunction) relative to those that are not so skill dependent.

Back when CE was a 5-point skill (pre-0.6.0), since I didn't have any 15-point captains, I had to play DDs through tier 6-7 (about as far as I had advanced at the time) without it against players who, in some cases, clearly had the skill.  I do feel your pain.  But a 10-pt captain isn't that hard--spend a bit of time over the next two weeks playing space battles and you should have enough elite xp to bring your DD captain up to that level.

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