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Out of the Tier 5 and Tier 6 BBs, which ones do you feel relatively comfortable in when up-tiered?

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Some MM changes are on the way, but as we know, Tiers 5 and 6 have been shafted by the matchmaker for quite some time. Having said this, are there any battleships (or ships from other classes) that you feel relatively comfortable and not hopeless in when being up-tiered? I am especially referring to being thrown into T7/T8 matches but being forced to play in a +1 tier match also counts.

  For me, I don't think any of the battleships nor cruisers at Tier 5 handle Tier 6/7 well. Kongo only has 8 guns, is relatively inaccurate, is big and has very poor armor. I have gotten Confederate with her in a T7 match (113k damage) but that was deifnitely exception rather than norm. Konig has even smaller caliber guns and as a German battleship, relies on getting close to do damage. When up-tiered, it will certainly eat lots of penetrations and HE. I guess we all know how NY and Texas fare in T6/7. Bretagne fares quite poorly as well due to the weak guns, slow turret traverse, and weak durability. Iron Duke is crap when up-tiered as well. That leaves us with Giulio Cesare, which I think may be the only T5 BB that handles T6 and T7 well, but it's not an easy ship to play for me and I've done horribly in it. With T5 cruisers, none of them handle T7 well, perhaps not even T6. I think the best ship at T5 that handles being up-tiered is Kamikaze / old Minekaze.

  At Tier 6, I've done well with the 14" dreadnoughts in a handful of Tier 7 and Tier 8 matches, but it's not easy. New Mexico and Arizona have done well for me from time to time when stuck in a Tier 7 or Tier 8 match, they are relatively tanky but are very slow. Their guns often feel inadequate at T7 and T8. Bayern is known for being horribly inaccurate, and relies on close range combat because it's a German BB. The higher the tier, the more difficult it is to do. Normandie is OKish? But it only has 13" guns. Mutsu is basically Nagato 1920, and we all know how bad it was. That leaves us, or at least myself, with the RN 15" battleships at Tier 6. I can still feel somewhat comfortable taking a Warspite or QE into a Tier 7 or 8 match, and recently I've performed relatively well in a number of T7 / T8 matches. They are slightly faster than the USN dreadnoughts, not that durable but better than IJN, but most of all, it's their gun caliber that gives them hope in a T7/8 match up. I know I can still overmatch battleship bows, I can still deal with broadside T7/8 cruisers without too much difficulty (as long as RNG on an 8-gun ship does not troll me), and although I seldom get citadels on battleships, I've hit enemies like Colorados, KGVs, and the Germans (Scharn, Gneis, Bismarck, Tirpitz) for solid 10k+, sometimes 13k+ salvos when they were full or nearly full broadside. 

 

Some Examples From Today (QE):

Estuary (T5-7 battle) 16k on enemy Colorado at 13km

Northern Lights (T6-8 battle) 11.2k on enemy Bismarck at 11km

Trap (T6-8 battle) x2 17k salvos on enemy Colorado at 4.5km

Shards (T5-7 battle) 11k salvo on enemy Scharnhorst at 11km

Trap (T6-8 battle) 13k salvo on enemy Tirpitz at 10km

 

 

 

 

Edited by Zionas

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In tier 5? The Konig can pull being up-tiered if you're careful.

Tier 6? I'll fight tier 8's in my New Mexico and Normandie all day.

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How do I perform well in a NM / Arizona / Normandie in a T7/8 match? My guns can't overmatch enemy battleships. There was this one battle in the Konig where I saw T7 on Shards, and I ended up with 90 or 95k damage. I double cit an enemy Shchors to death, then dueled 2 enemy New Yorks, killed them both. Also did some damage to a Warspite.

  Yesterday in a T8 battle, think it was on Trap (again), I fired at an enemy ARP Takao 14km out in my QE. He tried slowing down and I worried that my shells would miss him, but they hit just as he pulled the brakes, and I punched him for 2 citadels. 25.6k damage.

Edited by Zionas

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I am comfortable in all of them but the one I am most comfortable in is the Dunkerque.

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Cesare then Konig are the stongest tier 5's Kongo a close 3rd. Kongo would be higher but a weak armor belt let's it down.

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Tier V & VI?  Only one.

opca0PM.jpg

 

Tier V & Tier VI suck, MM screws it over.  Of the BBs, Caesar is the only one that scales up well.

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8 minutes ago, Zionas said:

How do I perform well in a NM / Arizona / Normandie in a T7/8 match? My guns can't overmatch enemy battleships. There was this one battle in the Konig where I saw T7 on Shards, and I ended up with 90 or 95k damage. I double cit an enemy Shchors to death, then dueled 2 enemy New Yorks, killed them both. Also did some damage to a Warspite.

If it goes faster the 21kts without a speed flag, it will up tier decently. Beyond that, power increases between tiers are slight (average 20% most ships.)

disclaimer: T8s are really the only massive increase in performance, mostly because they get access to concealment module, allowing them to dictate engagement range.

Edited by Cpt_Cupcake
grammar

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Kongo and Guilio Cesare at Tier V.  Not as much Tier VI experience in BBs, but Warspite and Queen Elizabeth seem better than Dunkerque and Fuso.

Speed is what lets Kongo and GC feel OK in Tier VII matches.  Punchy guns are what allow Warspite and QE to do OK in Tier VIII.  I prefer Kongo or GC in Tier VII to Warspite or QE in Tier VIII by far.

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GC without question though I find most any other T5 and T6 BB I can make work even when uptiered, just gotta have good position to munch on broadsides and excellent aim to make it hurt.

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18 minutes ago, Zionas said:

but as we know, Tiers 5 and 6 have been shafted by the matchmaker for quite some time.

Tier 5, yes.  Tier 6, no.  Lately in tier 5 ships I have been bottom tier 68% of the time, although a lot of those were only +1 tier.  In tier 6, however, I have been bottom tier 31% of the time.

It can be hard to face Tier 7 ships in a Tier 5.  Two ships that I have little trouble clearing that hurdle with are, as you mentioned, Kamikaze R and Giulio CesareI have also fared pretty well with Okhotnik, Murmansk, and Iron Duke.

Tier 6 is a bit easier (for me, at least).  I have a list of ships that I can do well in, even at Tier 8:  Shinonome, Farragut, Cleveland, Arizona, New Mexico, La Galissonniere, Warspite and Queen Elizabeth

Edited by desmo_2

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Warspite / QE in T8 is most vulnerable to HE spam from cruisers at those tiers. I absolutely fear HE spamming cruisers. What's funny is in a T8 match today on Northern Lights, I was being shot at by 2 Alabamas but they only managed to score a handful of hits on me. The rest I was able to bounce or mitigate. Guess i got lucky. Switched to HE, burned down one of the Alabamas, then fired an HE salvo at enemy Ranger before my team won the match by capping enemy base. 64k damage, 5th place on the team, lucky Graf Spee was 4th, the top 3 were, not surprisingly, Tier 8s. Not too bad I guess. If I can be in the Top 5 in a T8 match I'm satisfied.

 

The T8 match on Hotspot I was #2

Another T8 match on Trap I was #4

2 days ago I even got a Confederate at 97k damage and another COnfederate at 80k damage, both were in T8 games.

 

QE is one of my better performing BBs, currently averagina a 2.0/2.1 KD and 55-56k average damage in her at 111 battles.

Edited by Zionas

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For me it's the Kongo. Never really have an issue with T7 surface ships... just effin CVs.

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Kongo struggles with CVs even down at her own battle tier, I''ve noticed. Even if Langley, Bogue, Hosho, or Ryujo really wants to take you down, it will do so. Kongo is fast, long, and sleek, but can't turn well at all. Her large superstructure means she gets set on fire by HE and dive bombers easily. Having said that she used to be a really nice battleship and one of my first loves.

Edited by Zionas

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4 minutes ago, Zionas said:

Kongo struggles with CVs even down at her own battle tier, I''ve noticed.

 

Eh? Autodrops aren't that bad from T4 and T5 cvs, it's when you face manual drops from experienced CV drivers that she struggles against a T6 or T7 cv.

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220+ matches in the Giulio Cesare at a 74% win rate, 65k damage avg. and a 4.9 kill to death ratio.

Accept no substitutes.

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Just now, BiggieD61 said:

220+ matches in the Giulio Cesare at a 74% win rate, 65k damage avg. and a 4.9 kill to death ratio.

Accept no substitutes.

Nice. I wonder how you do so well in the ship. I just can't understand its playstyle. I am used to the USN and RN dreadnoughts.

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39 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Tier V & VI?  Only one.

opca0PM.jpg

Tier V & Tier VI suck, MM screws it over.  Of the BBs, Caesar is the only one that scales up well.

Not really certain about him; normally I can’t play popular ships worth spit. Whatever curse makes that so must not know what to think about the First Citizen; because my performance in it has been completely schizophrenic...

As far as not minding being uptiered in a battleship?

Warspite. New Mexico. Normandie. Sometimes Fuso.

Arizona is another odd duck; Dunkerque is okay; and Bayern next to useless. (Too few guns to get close and be usefull without dying while the roaches are crawling; accuracy too sucky to stay further out...)

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For me, New Mexico but I'm surprised Fuso hasn't got more love here, it hits really hard.

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49 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Tier V & VI?  Only one.

opca0PM.jpg

 

Tier V & Tier VI suck, MM screws it over.  Of the BBs, Caesar is the only one that scales up well.

Agreed. Giulio is the only tier 5 BB that I'll occasionally play. IMHO, all the others suck against tier 7s.

Tier 6, Dunkerque.

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Kongo's my number one pick when going in basement tier, Warspite and Queen Elizabeth are a close second, with Mutsu and Arizona rounding out the top 5.

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i'll take my NY into a T7 battle any day. :Smile_izmena:

but that really has more to do with my personal preference. any ship can perform if you know how to use it. as much as i hate how often T5/6 ships get uptiered, there's only one that i wouldn't voluntarily take into a +2 match. T-22 and i just do not get along.

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