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Operation Frontier PSA

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PSA for Operation Frontier: Please do keep in mind that the carrier is a SECONDARY GOAL out of scope of the primary mission of saving the aerodrome.

 

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They made it harder, by adding in another battleship group that comes out when you're trying to keep the destroyers from getting into the repair base.

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It's much harder now, tempo is faster, more bots and they arrive earlier, and the bots shoot better. We used to finish with five stars at least two minutes early in the groups I played in. Now I feel happy with four stars. 

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3 hours ago, wtfovr said:

They made it harder, by adding in another battleship group that comes out when you're trying to keep the destroyers from getting into the repair base.

I'm pretty sure those destroyers also have DFAA now.    Everything gets buffs.  

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It is for sure harder than it was and you should really forget about the CV until all the rest of the ships are taken care of.

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I agree it's more difficult now but I've been seeing what I assume are new players trying this. I only say this because BB players are refusing to go for the Atlanta in the beginning of the match, even after being asked to do so, and cruiser and destroyer players are sailing to the west of the island where they spawn and are getting deleted in the first five minutes. While it's always good to see new players, especially the ones that listen to polite suggestions on how not to die, it does get a little frustrating. 

Still, very challenging scenario regardless.  

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Yeah, I thought it was a lot more vicious than the first time I tried it. Thanks for confirming that.

I took a Fiji into this thing twice last night. The first time I got ROFLstomped. The second time, I ended up using my smoke a lot; I learned that once you start firing on the Cleveland, the enemy takes unpleasant notice of you so I went up the ten line, smoked as soon as I saw him and let rip.

I finished that battle with my nose jammed into the dock on the right hand side of the repair bay and spewing gunfire & torpedoes out my back end while the dock healed me faster than the enemy ships could put in the damage. It was the only thing that kept me alive.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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2 hours ago, Jolly_Rodgered said:

I only say this because BB players are refusing to go for the Atlanta in the beginning of the match, even after being asked to do so....

When I play Gneisenau, I always call it. 

Usually I can take out the Atlanta and Omaha with secondaries, using my mains on either the Cleveland, or the first BB group.

Have to try the "new" version.

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10 minutes ago, Skpstr said:

When I play Gneisenau, I always call it. 

Agreed. Fast BBs are usually best but even slow ones can handle it if the team doesn't implode. The below image is from a recent loss with an afk CV, a CA that died in literally two minutes and a BB that charged the first BB wave and died in four minutes. I enjoy the challenge but have been experiencing more losses than wins this time around. 

 

shot-18.04.12_10.31.38-0408.jpg

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It needs to be turned down a bit,average players like myself don't stand a chance with this reboot .

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No doubt the difficulty level has been turned up. I'm not sure if the sigma for the bots has been adjusted or if the composition of the bot teams has been made stronger but the change is noticeable. Before the change, my win rate was 90%. Now it is below 40% without a single 5-star victory.  Whatever the changes, the effect has been to severely punish poor team play.  Even one player who goes off script will compromise the team's ability to win. I'm sure wargaming has the stats that will show the impact of the change and I'm sure that they will make an adjustment. I would welcome some transparency about what has happened.

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6 minutes ago, lewellenfawr said:

No doubt the difficulty level has been turned up. I'm not sure if the sigma for the bots has been adjusted or if the composition of the bot teams has been made stronger but the change is noticeable. Before the change, my win rate was 90%. Now it is below 40% without a single 5-star victory.  Whatever the changes, the effect has been to severely punish poor team play.  Even one player who goes off script will compromise the team's ability to win. I'm sure wargaming has the stats that will show the impact of the change and I'm sure that they will make an adjustment. I would welcome some transparency about what has happened.

Thats just WG's normal way of doing balance passes.

 

*Thing not balanced > apply sledgehammer to effected area > profit????

 

*repeat as many times as necessary until you achieve "meh, close enough" status

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5 hours ago, lewellenfawr said:

No doubt the difficulty level has been turned up. I'm not sure if the sigma for the bots has been adjusted or if the composition of the bot teams has been made stronger but the change is noticeable. Before the change, my win rate was 90%. Now it is below 40% without a single 5-star victory.  Whatever the changes, the effect has been to severely punish poor team play.  Even one player who goes off script will compromise the team's ability to win. I'm sure wargaming has the stats that will show the impact of the change and I'm sure that they will make an adjustment. I would welcome some transparency about what has happened.

Bots more accurate, their chance of fire is significantly increased also. Seem the bots all have 19 point commanders with all the fire flags.

Interestingly Atlanta is no longer the go to ship for the T7 scenarios. You will be focused by everything once detected and the dds are doing ridiculous amounts of damage to you. DDs probably have IFHE now cause every hit is a pen or fire it seems.

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Funny, it doesn't seem that different to me.  The bot waves are pretty much the same as they were the last time around.  If there have been tweaks, they are not something major like spawn points or numbers, maybe just minor bot behavior.

I was 4/5 wins yesterday.  First attempt was a loss, as three cruisers died early.  Amusingly, my 27.5k HP Atlanta took 95k damage (1.2 million potential).

For the wins, I had two 4 stars, a 3 star, and capped it off with a 5 star win.  The 3 star was a bone-stock Algerie I picked up during the recent sale, and both our BBs on that team decided that camping in the repair base while full health was the proper thing for a BB to do.  This meant the cruisers had to do the actual fighting, which got us all focus fired and killed, but we managed to run the timer out with the base surviving.

There were complaints that Aegis was harder last week, but it was the same.  It was only made harder by the lack of experience in the teams. 

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Well, I won't be playing Final Frontier anymore. Whatever else Wargaming did, they nerfed the fun.

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you can thank those better players who have farmed the operation  for the change.     :D

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It's not that much different.  The main change is that in the DD wave push on the island, they all seem to push harder and in formation into the repair zone.  Also, the delayed BB wave that includes an Alabama or Colorado now spawns directly with the DD wave push and follows their formation.  The Ranger actually sometimes pushes near (South) of the island to make it an easier target.  There is definitely a more coordinated push from the bots, but this also makes them very vulnerable to focused fire and torps.  Also, almost every CA/CL bot will turn and show a brief broadside for no apparent reason.  The team must capitalize on the obvious opportunities.     

It is harder, but not for folks who are familiar with their tactical responsibilities.  This is the (new) strategic breakdown:

1. One BB spawning North kills the Atlanta and immediately heads to the island to support the team.  Before you reach the Atlanta, you can crush a hapless CA who will spawn to your East.  As long as you do not yolo into their torps, you're golden.  The Atlanta spawns in the far North East air/spawn point, slowly makes speed to the West, then turns and either faces a player or runs away to the North East.  The faster you kill it, the faster you can farm damage on your approach to the repair base.   

2. The South spawn group kills both DD's, preferably immediately.  But, no CA/CL should pursue them.

3. One or two DD's immediately hit flank speed and head North while running up the West coast of the main island.  Not East...like many do.  Your goal is to reach the small island and use it as cover.  This will place you in perfect smoke firing position and the BB's will head right towards you for multiple torp hits.  Lay your smoke before you reach the island but do not lay it until the BB's focus you.  If you are in smoke and the BB plus one CA fleet reaches you, stop firing to avoid detection and they will turn North.  The CA will try to shoot the gap between the big islands.  Your torps should be back up or you can gun them down.  You then head to the repair zone and prepare for the big push.

4. After focusing the initial DD's, two CA/CL's from the South group head to the Cleveland spawn point which is the middle air/spawn to the East.  Assist with the Atlanta if possible and then turn and make haste to the repair zone.  The first BB spawn group will try to take pot shots at you if you are firing and do not use the island as cover while you are heading North.  Use discretion.  The DD's and remaining South spawn are your protection to get where you need to go.  

5. The remaining South group should be solely focused on sinking the initial BB spawn group, especially the CA, as that is the mission threat.  Mop up remaining DD's.  As each player completes their given tasks, they should concentrate on helping out anyone else who has fallen behind.  Keep in mind though, you cannot over pursue and take yourself out of position to get to the repair base.  Slow ships must heed this warning.    

6. After the initial waves are handled, the rest of the team should be setting up near the repair zone, on both sides, to anticipate the multiple wave push.  BB in the back, CA/CL on the edges of the repair zone, and DD's spotting to the sides.  Going South of the repair zone is suicide and should only be attempted with coordinated support.  The bot DD's can rush either side of the island.  I've only seen the BB group go to the West.  But, I suspect it might go either way.  

7.  Under dire circumstances, you can sit deep in the repair zone and wait for the bots to round the corner.  You must citadel/torp them down immediately.  The DD's try to get in the zone and take your star.  The rest do a drive by.  Kill the DD's first.

8. The Ranger spawns in the same location, but instead of hiding and running away, now turns East and far South of the repair zone.  He should be in range of everyone but DD's.

9. Mop up if it went well.  If you lost teammates or they were ineffective, used the repair zone to pick off each ship that is closest to your base.  Only pursue if they will out range you or you need to torp them.

10.  The bots don't seem to be that effectively more accurate than before, but they do focus the lowest HP player with reckless abandon.  If that person is you, find a rock, smoke, or die honorably by taking out as many as you can.  The main way to avoid bot fire is to change speed and direction...just like randoms.  Running away in a straight line as fast as you can when you are being focused is a slow but inevitable death.  I'll say it again...the main change in the bot behavior is the focusing of one player.  They may be more accurate, but only if you are predictable.

 

This is not an exhaustive guide, as there may well be other strats that work.  And, I have not run the new Op enough yet to know all variables.  But, from running it in all three classes, this is what works for me...and puts me on the top of board at the end.  The spawn location of some of the smaller groups does change, but this guide should place you in a good position to handle all threats.  If anyone has anything to add, please feel free.  The main issue I have with these Ops is players who have no clue what to do...many who die within minutes of first contact.  The only way for them to improve is with knowledge of the Op.  So...I hope this helps.                            

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2 hours ago, _Starbuck said:

Well, I won't be playing Final Frontier anymore. Whatever else Wargaming did, they nerfed the fun.

I fear for what Newport is going to look like with these changes ....

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I love playing Operations, i hope WOWS sees the stats and see they made a mistake . on the subject of XP farming, why not make future Operations in  Tier V, or a Destroyer based mission like Dunkirk or my favorite, a WWI based mission . These lower Tier missions would harvest less XP and give newer players a chance to learn Ops and older ones a chance to bring out some ships they haven't played in awhile

Edited by commando_brian
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@centarina Yea I was wondering if it was the response to elite players in divisions/pre-organized groups that are crushing the OP.   Are they the majority,  because if they aren't then the casual audience is getting smacked for it.

 

@Rabindra_Sooknanan  As an overall discussion,  I have noticed very much so in the OP Aegis last week.  Maybe it was changed even during the previous weeks,  but I've not played much during March.  You're probably right about the improvement of Bot performance.

 

This experience is from recent Aegis,(may apply to all bots now)

-So they seem "better" at focus firing targets.(priority on who they shoot)

-also deadlier use of "Fire"   

(When the first wave spawns with majority cruisers,  the Japanese Tier 5-7 hit like UK BBs. Taking like 5k salvos on my BBs.  Oh and the Ishizuchi(s) in the first wave will also spam HE shells at you.  Though the cruisers with better ROF and accuracy are scarier.)

I noticed the trend of damage in games involving that first wave.  One of the last few games I had was very telling.

-I sail East in with the fleet quickly to get myself in position to fire.  First 60secs of the OP nothing happens.  Of course being in a BB, am detected earliest and the next 60secs they burn down 20K off my Warspite.  I am close enough to sail SE and get behind the large rock.

So they target the next BB further back, another Warspite and he sailed NE at the start.  He doesn't have anywhere to hide himself.   The bots focus burn him down and sink him in the next 2, maybe 2.5minutes.  Those fires and just raw HE damage...

=so in the first 4mins of the OP,  we are down a BB,  and my BB lost 40% health(before heals).   It is more difficult,  but as a BB you are keeping your cruisers alive for the long term which is important.   And if your cruiser teammates can shoot well,  you'll still mop up good.   

 

I'm thinking Aegis has a slight bit more reliance on BBs being able to tank and SURVIVING for overall team success.  Whereas before you are sitting back in your BB and dev striking the first wave of ships, while the bots generally shot at visible front line ships like cruisers.  And the BBs go along without a scratch. 

I'm okay with the change to Aegis as it still feels fair to a casual player.  If the majority of the team is clueless,  you're screwed.   In random groups, 3, 4 Stars are common,  5's not so much anymore.  Mission failure is also more common, before it was rare.

 

But Ultimate Frontier, that's another level of crazy.  Never had a 8 game losing streak that was a downright stomping.  I will concede that some of those games had half the SE group sailing straight west and getting obliterated(new players?).  I was shocked because nobody did that the last time the OP was around,  February?.  Only times it did happen were elite DD players who would torp the crap out of the DD bots.  And everyone else sailed north to tackle the cleveland(it is pretty annoying now) and then west to the repair base.

A bit disappointed because it seems more time and XP efficient for me to play co-op games which are less tactically demanding and engaging.  But so much more a gamble jumping into a random game of Ultimate Frontier.  Taking twice the time of a co-op game and being more intense, requiring more focus, relying on decent teammates.  Failing is more common and I can get the same XP in a mediocre co-op game in half the time.

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12 hours ago, centarina said:

you can thank those better players who have farmed the operation  for the change.     :D

*looks at the five stars he has in every OP except the one requiring French and British botes*

Sorry ...?:Smile_hiding: :Smile-_tongue: (I'm not a better player; for the record. Just been lucky and had some good teams.)

Honestly, though, did it a while back for five stars in my Hood, but not sure that will work if they have buffed it -- took about four tries back then, and it was still tough. Considered taking my new Mahan, but nope -- this is a bad DD operation. (Few are good for them, but this one is particularly bad.)

So ... might try again the Hood because lol AA and see what happens. Interested to see just how much they tweaked it.

Edited by MajorEnglush

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12 hours ago, centarina said:

you can thank those better players who have farmed the operation  for the change.     :D

The hole game is about farming.

So lets nerf premium ships the only thing they are good for is farming. 

Lets nerf  all T10  ships and all ships you have in that line they are only good for farming. I have the Hindy and 5 other ships in that line so nerf them all because they are only good for farming.

I have around 60 ships I keep them because I enjoy playing them. I play Op, co-op and random because I enjoy playing the game .

P.S. Get rid of Space Battles because that only good for farming.

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15 minutes ago, MajorEnglush said:

*looks at the five stars he has in every OP except the one requiring French and British botes*

Sorry ...?:Smile_hiding:

Is it part of the rotation,  so it is coming back?  Aww, gee that could be more infuriating.

I can't remember the exact objectives,  but the Rouan must survive is one of them and is a hard failure??   Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If the tweaked AI and improved fire slinging are a global change,  I may not bother with it at all.  Because the possibility is there that you do 95% of the mission well,  and that last 30-45 secs goes a little sideways you get a big middle-finger for your efforts.  There are a few odd games where the Rouan took a single torp near the end and flooded down and times where it burned down in the last 20-30secs.   Fires from DDs and cruisers is just gruesome now and they'll get you pretty quick with their ROF if it is carried over to all Bots.

If it is a global change or overall balance directive,  it might kill the fun in operations for me.         

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