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JackBinary

We need to talk about the type 98.

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The tier 9 and 10 of the IJN alt line have been leaked. While this is great news for those of us who love to play the akizuki, their reliance on the type 98 is worrying.
at tier 8, akizuki can function without IFHE, as she somewhat commonly sees ships at tier 7 and below, who don't have 19mm super structures and DD hulls.
However, at tier 9 and 10, the new ships will be unlikely to see an enemy that they can penetrate with HE, without the IFHE skill.

I move that the type 98 100mm shell should be adjusted, either to bake in IFHE, or to grant it quarter pen. This would allow the higher tier ships to be competitive with only a 10 point commander, rather than requiring a 14 point commander to do what other lines can with a 10 point one.

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2 minutes ago, JackBinary said:

The tier 9 and 10 of the IJN alt line have been leaked. While this is great news for those of us who love to play the akizuki, their reliance on the type 98 is worrying.
at tier 8, akizuki can function without IFHE, as she somewhat commonly sees ships at tier 7 and below, who don't have 19mm super structures and DD hulls.
However, at tier 9 and 10, the new ships will be unlikely to see an enemy that they can penetrate with HE, without the IFHE skill.

I move that the type 98 100mm shell should be adjusted, either to bake in IFHE, or to grant it quarter pen. This would allow the higher tier ships to be competitive with only a 10 point commander, rather than requiring a 14 point commander to do what other lines can with a 10 point one.

i wouldnt hold my breath on WG doing that for an IJN DD, just saying

Edited by tcbaker777

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Just now, tcbaker777 said:

i wouldnt hold my breath on WG doing that for an IJN DD

it needs to happen though. tier 10 is going to be pain if you don't already have a 14 point commander ready and waiting.

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How about no. IFHE makes and breaks akizuki. The t10, which will have a 3 second reload, maybe less, with bft and access to reload mod will be able to get down to a 2.3 second reload. That's 260 shells a minute from 10 guns. With what you suggest, if you run ifhe on it then it will have 32.5 mm of HE pen, enough to pen bbs. Now you're throwing 260 shells a minute that can pen bbs, please no. This ship with the way it currently seems to be will already be an absolute beast. It doesn't need quarter pen.

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20 minutes ago, JackBinary said:

it needs to happen though. tier 10 is going to be pain if you don't already have a 14 point commander ready and waiting.

It's pathetically easy to get a 14 point captain by tier 10. In my American line I have a 19 point captain in my Iowa, 16 point in my Balti and a 15 point in my Benson.

Edited by Shocri

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56 minutes ago, JackBinary said:

This would allow the higher tier ships to be competitive with only a 10 point commander, rather than requiring a 14 point commander to do what other lines can with a 10 point one.

I'd argue by tier 10 no ship is truly competitive with just a 10 point commander, and it's more or less expected that every ship is running advanced commanders with 15-16 points at minimum.  

Edited by yashma
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Before asking for buffs/nerfs we shouldnt wait to see how those ships are balanced, what are their stats.

Edited by Xlap
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37 minutes ago, JackBinary said:

it needs to happen though. tier 10 is going to be pain if you don't already have a 14 point commander ready and waiting.

Not that it doesn't need to happen cause it does but like the other guy said I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm in total agreement with the idea.

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45 minutes ago, JackBinary said:

The tier 9 and 10 of the IJN alt line have been leaked. While this is great news for those of us who love to play the akizuki, their reliance on the type 98 is worrying.
at tier 8, akizuki can function without IFHE, as she somewhat commonly sees ships at tier 7 and below, who don't have 19mm super structures and DD hulls.
However, at tier 9 and 10, the new ships will be unlikely to see an enemy that they can penetrate with HE, without the IFHE skill.

I move that the type 98 100mm shell should be adjusted, either to bake in IFHE, or to grant it quarter pen. This would allow the higher tier ships to be competitive with only a 10 point commander, rather than requiring a 14 point commander to do what other lines can with a 10 point one.

emJSSpD.gif

This kid has your answer

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36 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Before asking for buffs/nerds we shouldnt wait to see how those ships are balanced, what are their stats.

86d5200a29809e732f5b4371def3322ad6ab9099

I am assuming Japanese nerds?

As for the 100mm, I just AP everything to death. Just like the German DDs.

Oh you're angled? Say goodbye to your turrets then.

Edited by HazardDrake
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17 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

86d5200a29809e732f5b4371def3322ad6ab9099

I am assuming Japanese nerds?

As for the 100mm, I just AP everything to death. Just like the German DDs.

Oh you're angled? Say goodbye to your turrets then.

I was thinking of the exact same thing.  You beat me to it.

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25 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

86d5200a29809e732f5b4371def3322ad6ab9099

I am assuming Japanese nerds?

As for the 100mm, I just AP everything to death. Just like the German DDs.

Oh you're angled? Say goodbye to your turrets then.

Someone beat me to say the same thing already too, lol.

 

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34 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

86d5200a29809e732f5b4371def3322ad6ab9099

I am assuming Japanese nerds?

LUL :Smile_teethhappy:

 

It was supoosed to be "nerfs"

34 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

 

 

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I just assumed this was intentional, because 100mm guns put out a stupid amount of direct dps if they're allowed to pen. Therefore, you get 4 less captain points in your final build.

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55 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

I just assumed this was intentional, because 100mm guns put out a stupid amount of direct dps if they're allowed to pen. Therefore, you get 4 less captain points in your final build.

The 10cm/65 does 1700 HE dmg as a secondary, but is nerfed to 1200 HE dmg as a main weapon.

I don't see why WG couldn't up the penetration to 1/4.

Even a 1/5 divider, with 20mm penetration, would be enough.

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You can level the exact same issue at the upcoming USN light cruisers. With 152 mm guns, they need also need IFHE in order to be reasonably effective, so again you're looking at a 14 pt captain minimum to make them work.

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9 minutes ago, DeliciousFart said:

You can level the exact same issue at the upcoming USN light cruisers. With 152 mm guns, they need also need IFHE in order to be reasonably effective, so again you're looking at a 14 pt captain minimum to make them work.

not really.

IFHE on cruisers allows for sloppy aim, but if you have good aim, 152mm HE has no issues penetrating 24mm of armor, which is far more than is needed to penetrate BB superstructures and DDs all over. What 152mm IFHE allows is 32mm of penetration. This means you can be sloppy and hit the deck portion of many BB and CA/CL to deal damage.
Whereas on 100mm guns, you need IFHE to penetrate 19mm hull plating on DDs.
USN 152mm HE also possesses 12% fire chance per hit.

Namely, Kutuzov never had any issues outputting damage before IFHE was introduced, but now with IFHE, it's a monster.

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3 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

86d5200a29809e732f5b4371def3322ad6ab9099

I am assuming Japanese nerds?

As for the 100mm, I just AP everything to death. Just like the German DDs.

Oh you're angled? Say goodbye to your turrets then.

The AP is an equalizer, as the real IJN 100mm gun mounts only had HE available to them. They were intended as anti aircraft mounts.

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

I don't see why WG couldn't up the penetration to 1/4.

Because then you could have 32.5mm HE penetration. I forget whether this rounds up or down in WG math, but if it's up, then that means IFHE 1/4 Akizuki would apply 213,333 dps that would pen 32mm plating. Congratulations, you now have a T8 destroyer that outdamages Moskva and Khabarovsk (and defeats more armor than Khab). Slap on a few more turrets at T10, and that'll go great.

In addition to that, Akizuki and its higher-tier cousins pack a lot of AA firepower. Forcing them to pay 4 points (IFHE) to make their surface firepower so strong means keeping 4 points out of other talents -- for example, taking IFHE+AFT+MFAA combo means giving up something in the 3-point captain tier. I find that entirely reasonable, given that unlike some other ships that just get minor improvements, BFT, SE, and DE all offset key disadvantages of the line.

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6 hours ago, Edgecase said:

Because then you could have 32.5mm HE penetration. I forget whether this rounds up or down in WG math, but if it's up, then that means IFHE 1/4 Akizuki would apply 213,333 dps that would pen 32mm plating. Congratulations, you now have a T8 destroyer that outdamages Moskva and Khabarovsk (and defeats more armor than Khab). Slap on a few more turrets at T10, and that'll go great.

In addition to that, Akizuki and its higher-tier cousins pack a lot of AA firepower. Forcing them to pay 4 points (IFHE) to make their surface firepower so strong means keeping 4 points out of other talents -- for example, taking IFHE+AFT+MFAA combo means giving up something in the 3-point captain tier. I find that entirely reasonable, given that unlike some other ships that just get minor improvements, BFT, SE, and DE all offset key disadvantages of the line.

Moskva and Khab were always low DPM ships.

Des Moines, Gearing, Z-52, Hindenburg, and Minotaur are the DPM ships.

Oh, and did you know you can up the penetration on Khab and Gearing to 32mm+ if you pick IFHE for those too?

Edited by MrDeaf

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I think 1/5 pen would be reasonable. That would give it 20mm pen standard and 26mm pen w/ ifhe.

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12 hours ago, Xlap said:

Before asking for buffs/nerfs we shouldnt wait to see how those ships are balanced, what are their stats.

I agree. Before pulling the corpse apart, make sure you have one to pull apart. :Smile_glasses:

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24 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

Oh, and did you know you can up the penetration on Khab and Gearing to 32mm+ if you pick IFHE for those too?

 Umm... No, you can't do that.

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7 minutes ago, m373x said:

 Umm... No, you can't do that.

Alright, give the 100mm guns 1/5 penetration then.

At least you no longer need IFHE to deal with DDs and the IFHE won't let it do 32mm penetration

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I think the 10cm HE penetration is a balancing factor for having such high DPM, and that's even with  23% nerf to HE alpha already. It's the same issue for 150mm-155mm cruisers against 200mm+ ones. 

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