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MajorPlagge

Ultimate Frontier Operation April 2018 'update' has made it almost Unwinnable, let alone possible for 5 stars

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Operations had been one of the best things going here for many players.

But your changes to Ultimate Frontier has made it practically unwinnable, let alone getting 5 stars.

I always felt the scenario was balanced enough before, it took a good team to defend the base, and then to even have a chance at killing the Carrier.

But now it has all the old problems (Attacks from east and west at almost the same time, secondary targets that never come within range before the timer runs out, multiple secondary targets which are heavy HP Battleships that also usually never come within range until the timer runs out, the [edited] of a carrier, etc)

And you've included:

1) You have to save _3_ forts now, instead of just 2.   And the AI just rips these things to shreds while there is nothing you can do about it (see previous being attack on almost all sides, as the bots will destroy the forts at extreme range ).

2) You send Destroyers in first at the base, and the only things capable of defending it are battleships.   Um, you know better than that, Battleships are NOT destroyer killers.  Yet you set up this mismatch, while the DDs whittle the aforementioned forts down.  Also, not getting the last carrier unless you play as a team I can understand, but now it requires one Battleship to kill the Atlanta pulling it off the front line, and another Battleship to take DD duty.  If not, loss of a star minimum?)

3) If you only get 1 Battleship on your team = complete loss of a Star no matter what you do.    This should never be the case.   The lone battleship can never get the Atlanta and DDs (see previous)

4) In all my PTS and attempts today, the last wave seems to always go down the worst possible channel:   The West, which not only provides them excellent protection from the center with islands, but provides easy reach to the main defense target, the Aerodrome, without even having to bother with a defensive fleet.   I always regretted seeing the last wave come down that pathway before, but it was only 1 in 3 chance, now it seems its every time)

5) It appears the old RNG buffs and complete focus fire of bot ships is back.   Bad enough seeing crazy hits over islands and always hitting weakspots on your ship, but in my time of playing operations I had never had my priority target light up with _6_ ships shooting at me at a time (no matter the range, no matter if other targets are between us -- I think many have already complained about this in Aegis (operation), making open water = death, but when you are outnumbered with objectives, sometimes you don't have a choice)  Adding in how ships 15+km away finding my weakspots with each shot, or seeing 8  15km range rounds all striking my ship constantly while I'm ducking and weaving.   Er, no.

I understand that the players enjoyed Narai, and a good team could get good rewards.  

But this seems to be a complete knee-jerk reaction in the other direction on sabotaging Ultimate Frontier. 

It used to be, without an 'ultimate' team, you could at least squeeze out a win with a star or two.   But now....

(and the other tier 7 operation, cannot remember the name right now, has its own very arbitrary limiter:  Only French Battleships (no russian, german, US, or British BBs), and cruisers from only 3 nations.   Incredibly limiting people who want to play it)

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WG decided it was too easy to farm XP/credits in the scenarios...

They also want to force players to join clans, simply to have a coherent team that can make them somewhat easier.

Unfortunately this is typical WG, try to force the players into a certain play style by whatever means necessary, even though it loses more players than it converts....:Smile_teethhappy:

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8 minutes ago, awiggin said:

WG decided it was too easy to farm XP/credits in the scenarios...

They also want to force players to join clans, simply to have a coherent team that can make them somewhat easier.

Unfortunately this is typical WG, try to force the players into a certain play style by whatever means necessary, even though it loses more players than it converts....:Smile_teethhappy:

Believable. Do you have a reference?

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I thought it was too easy and not as action packed as Narai,so bringing the tension level up on a pre-programmed mode is a great idea.  It will require a few run throughs before optimal strats will be determined, but then  it will be steady sailing to 4/5 star it depending on team quality.

Speaking of difficulty level, looking forward to WG releasing the "hard" modes of the existing tier 6 Operations as well.

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1 hour ago, BiggieD61 said:

I thought it was too easy and not as action packed as Narai,so bringing the tension level up on a pre-programmed mode is a great idea.  It will require a few run throughs before optimal strats will be determined, but then  it will be steady sailing to 4/5 star it depending on team quality.

Speaking of difficulty level, looking forward to WG releasing the "hard" modes of the existing tier 6 Operations as well.

They went a bit overboard, 12 games today and no wins, no one in chat mentioned a win either . players have different levels of skill ,you can't make this so hard half the players don't have a chance or give up playing  . i'm fine with a normal or hard mode but, how about a choice 

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The first time they ran the old tier 6 operation "haven" after running the French Gold Op, and both tier 7 ops back to back, many new players had never seen it before and unknowingly never exited the map, causing all the teams to lose despite meeting all the other conditions.  Eventually people caught on by day 3/4 and it was back to normal.  A lot of the new players are unfamiliar with this op, and with it being toughened up, are simply unprepared for it.  Give it 2 more days and everyone will have it figured out by then.

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Now I know which operation he is referring to, I don;t find this operation to be hard at all. It was not a cake walk either, now NAVAL Sation Newport That is the hardest one of all the operations. I just think that if its easy then ppl will not play it, atleast its a challenge you'll have more participation. I'll check it out   but nothing compares to the defense of NAVAL station Newport. 

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I hope either people figure it out or it gets adjusted.  8 games today (my entire day of gaming right there) and I went 1-7, with a single 2 star win.  I see some play errors like 4 CAs going after the Cleveland instead of splitting their attention, but I have yet to see the Raptor make it below 80% HP.  I've done 100k-150k damage in almost all of those 8 games, but clearly that's nowhere even close enough.

8 fancy paint jobs gone for a total of 13000 EXP.

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5 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Now I know which operation he is referring to, I don;t find this operation to be hard at all. It was not a cake walk either, now NAVAL Sation Newport That is the hardest one of all the operations. I just think that if its easy then ppl will not play it, atleast its a challenge you'll have more participation. I'll check it out   but nothing compares to the defense of NAVAL station Newport. 

I would have said this 2 days ago.  But after today...

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6 minutes ago, galspanic said:

I would have said this 2 days ago.  But after today...

Is it that bad ??? now I really have to see this lol IF this replaces NAVAL Station Newwport as the hardest not only in tier 7 operation but the whole operations then WOW ! lol

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Just now, Navalpride33 said:

Is it that bad ??? now I really have to see this lol IF this replaces NAVAL Station Newwport as the hardest not only in tier 7 operation but the whole operations then WOW ! lol

I think so.  Newport was challenging, but this is just ridiculous.  The first wave looks good and then all the "Shoot this ship in X amount of time" things start happening.  The 3 waves of ships, plus the raptor, and the 3 DDs that are going after the heal station all come in about the same time.  I get why they turned it up - they should have - but now it goes from a challenge to keep up to keeping Citadel'd twice and burned to the ocean floor in 30 seconds.

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It's not the operations, it's the quality of the players. This latest batch of players would lose a battle of wits with a rubber duck. You can't tell them anything, from the way they play, I doubt they are useful alive in PvP, and the bots are smarter in PvE.

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52 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

It's not the operations, it's the quality of the players. This latest batch of players would lose a battle of wits with a rubber duck. You can't tell them anything, from the way they play, I doubt they are useful alive in PvP, and the bots are smarter in PvE.

Players have always had an amount that have been stupid.  I agree with you there.  But there are no 'new batch'es.

The point is that even with older stupid players this operation was not to the level it is now (saw this happening on the PTS).

Ultimate Frontier has had rotations before, and sure there is some 'getting used to' going on, but this is beyond the pale.

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Although I still thank you for letting PvE players have the opportunity for a greater amount of Missions.

Everything the OP said is true.

The changes in secondary objectives, last wave always down the worst path, and the accuracy bonuses for the bots is insane, etc.

This is unplayable, Wargaming.

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Ran it several times today, and I'll stick by my guns. The usual causes of failure were yoloing cruisers, battleships, and people bringing destroyers. So far, everything I've seen was doable, if you don't basically start a ship or three down.

A good example is the last run of tonight. It was a couple seconds from a 5 star (lost a fort at the last second)

Random team was my Kaga, a Nelson, a Gneis, a Sharn, a Yorck, a S. Dragon, and a Fiji.

I'm not sure how the Fiji died to the opening Cleveland, but he did, Southern Dragon died giving his broadside to the survivor of the opening battleship wave and running himself aground.

I'm not sure how the Sharn died (It was late in the match though), probably burned down, Gneis charged the CV, and bagged it (he was mostly dead to start with, and it was a good trade)

I tied the Gneis's 5 kills, and I had 181K damage, which was good enough for 4th. In short, The Nelson, Yorck and Gneis played well, the Scharn and myself played ok, the S. Dragon wasn't very useful, and the Fiji I'll give the benefit of the doubt and call him unlucky.

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The only problem I have is that

  1. With the new changes, this is NOT a DD friendly operation
  2. with a good CV driver, you CAN get to the red CV. Its now a BB target but not all BBs will sink it.
  3. DO NOT send a slow shooting cruiser to this operation. This is a cruiser heavy operation, if your cruisers are gone so goes the win.

5 Stars is do-able but yes its not going to be easy. Compared to Naval Station Newport, this mission is not that hard. Naval Station Newport operation is still a intense operation out of all. Cheers!

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In my worst game I had 4 kills, in my  last game 9 but , in the end a good team was overwhelmed and good teams should be able to win not just "elite"  

22 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Naval Station Newport operation is still a intense operation out of all. Cheers!

NSN is tough but, not like this. you can get at least a couple of stars each time  with Newport

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...And if your going to change the Operation how about new rewards!

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WG, there are 'Normal' and 'Hard' buttons when you go to select Operations.  Only, the 'Hard' button is not enabled yet.

This operation is currently set to 'Hard' mode.

I'm not expecting to five star the operation every single go, but a team of average players should at least be able to complete it if no one really poops the bed.  Please, either dial it back a bit, or enable that button and have that queue players for the current version, and put the original version back under 'Normal'.

Space battles suck, and now this.  Guess I won't be playing Operations until the next rotation.

4 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:
  1. With the new changes, this is NOT a DD friendly operation

None of 'em are.  What yanks my cord about that, though, is that when I jump in queue and it says "1 CV  2 BB  7 CA  1 DD" - and I'm that one DD - when I drop, there's almost always two DD's on the team.

:Smile_facepalm:

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25 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

but a team of average players

I dont blame the players, I do blame ship choice, the Pensacola is an awful ship for this operation. I have seen more Pensacolas  in the operation, and I just mark it down as a loss.

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We failed to loosing to many transports despite clearing all the AA cruisers on that side and no DDs inside the atol to shoot directly. No idea what was killing the transports but somthing seems badly off.

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Played again today with a real good team and no luck , please enable the the normal/hard button 

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18 hours ago, MajorPlagge said:

Operations had been one of the best things going here for many players.

But your changes to Ultimate Frontier has made it practically unwinnable, let alone getting 5 stars.

I always felt the scenario was balanced enough before, it took a good team to defend the base, and then to even have a chance at killing the Carrier.

But now it has all the old problems (Attacks from east and west at almost the same time, secondary targets that never come within range before the timer runs out, multiple secondary targets which are heavy HP Battleships that also usually never come within range until the timer runs out, the [edited] of a carrier, etc)

And you've included:

1) You have to save _3_ forts now, instead of just 2.   And the AI just rips these things to shreds while there is nothing you can do about it (see previous being attack on almost all sides, as the bots will destroy the forts at extreme range ).

2) You send Destroyers in first at the base, and the only things capable of defending it are battleships.   Um, you know better than that, Battleships are NOT destroyer killers.  Yet you set up this mismatch, while the DDs whittle the aforementioned forts down.  Also, not getting the last carrier unless you play as a team I can understand, but now it requires one Battleship to kill the Atlanta pulling it off the front line, and another Battleship to take DD duty.  If not, loss of a star minimum?)

3) If you only get 1 Battleship on your team = complete loss of a Star no matter what you do.    This should never be the case.   The lone battleship can never get the Atlanta and DDs (see previous)

4) In all my PTS and attempts today, the last wave seems to always go down the worst possible channel:   The West, which not only provides them excellent protection from the center with islands, but provides easy reach to the main defense target, the Aerodrome, without even having to bother with a defensive fleet.   I always regretted seeing the last wave come down that pathway before, but it was only 1 in 3 chance, now it seems its every time)

5) It appears the old RNG buffs and complete focus fire of bot ships is back.   Bad enough seeing crazy hits over islands and always hitting weakspots on your ship, but in my time of playing operations I had never had my priority target light up with _6_ ships shooting at me at a time (no matter the range, no matter if other targets are between us -- I think many have already complained about this in Aegis (operation), making open water = death, but when you are outnumbered with objectives, sometimes you don't have a choice)  Adding in how ships 15+km away finding my weakspots with each shot, or seeing 8  15km range rounds all striking my ship constantly while I'm ducking and weaving.   Er, no.

I understand that the players enjoyed Narai, and a good team could get good rewards.  

But this seems to be a complete knee-jerk reaction in the other direction on sabotaging Ultimate Frontier. 

It used to be, without an 'ultimate' team, you could at least squeeze out a win with a star or two.   But now....

(and the other tier 7 operation, cannot remember the name right now, has its own very arbitrary limiter:  Only French Battleships (no russian, german, US, or British BBs), and cruisers from only 3 nations.   Incredibly limiting people who want to play it)

As stated I played again this morning and i  find all your comments right on the money , there is no way an average team can complete this mission let alone 5 star  . keep it fun WOWS ! If XP farming is a problem then lower the XP per game but don't make the Op unwinable. Operations is my favorite game mode I think it brings out the best in players and if people are finding it too easy enabling that  normal/hard button would fix the problem .

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Thanks a frickin lot WG. Look I get the whole  try make it harder thing, but you shouldve made tests and stuff for the supposed HARD mode for these things. I never thought this scenario was super easy, on my opinion it had its moments. Now its just another thing id not go fo. Losing is too much penalty, its better to lose at randoms but well if im in no mood for pvp then id rather just play another game then.

 

Damn fortunate I got my 5 stars on this before you messed it up

Edited by cmdr_raccoon
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