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Herr_Reitz

WG, we want some numbers and details on penalties, not ambiguity.

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... I was pondering this morning about the message being sent to players via the "sanctioned to coop", the "go to coop to work off your bad behavior".  Coop may, in the near future, be considered almost a detention center, you know? 

So how about a suggestion... rather than place the TK'ing, unsporting players in with folks who just enjoy nice, relaxing games of coop, how about you place them in their own mode, where the rewards and such are half or three-quarters what they are in coop? Call it the Penalty Box maybe? 

I think that would send a much stronger message to all the players.

And if I read the announcement correctly, does that mean in the near future, the only way we'll see pink in randoms will be if the player actually goes pink in your match? tiafyc

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3 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

... I was pondering this morning about the message being sent to players via the "sanctioned to coop", the "go to coop to work off your bad behavior".  Coop may, in the near future, be considered almost a detention center, you know? 

So how about a suggestion... rather than place the TK'ing, unsporting players in with folks who just enjoy nice, relaxing games of coop, how about you place them in their own mode, where the rewards and such are half or three-quarters what they are in coop? Call it the Penalty Box maybe? 

I think that would send a much stronger message to all the players.

And if I read the announcement correctly, does that mean in the near future, the only way we'll see pink in randoms will be if the player actually goes pink in your match? tiafyc

Plus 1 :Smile_honoring: , but call it the "phantom zone" instead of the penalty box. :cap_yes:

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6 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

... I was pondering this morning about the message being sent to players via the "sanctioned to coop", the "go to coop to work off your bad behavior".  Coop may, in the near future, be considered almost a detention center, you know? 

So how about a suggestion... rather than place the TK'ing, unsporting players in with folks who just enjoy nice, relaxing games of coop, how about you place them in their own mode, where the rewards and such are half or three-quarters what they are in coop? Call it the Penalty Box maybe? 

I think that would send a much stronger message to all the players.

And if I read the announcement correctly, does that mean in the near future, the only way we'll see pink in randoms will be if the player actually goes pink in your match? tiafyc

I agree 100%, as a PvE player I really do not think we need the TK'ers in Co-Op.

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COOP gonna become a hive of scum and villanry

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Sounds good, let them have a "zone" all their own, just orange, pink and bots to play against..  Let them kill all their team mates and bots that they desire.

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Just now, Chaos_EN2 said:

I agree 100%, as a PvE player I really do not think we need the TK'ers in Co-Op.

But isn't that where they normally go to work off the stain anyway?

What happens when you get pink in co-op? Do you then get pushed into the training room to shoot at moving bots for a while? (That would actually not be a bad thing.)

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World of Warships is a game in which players team up for a single purpose—defeating the opponent at sea and in the air. But let's make it clear—players are all human. We all have emotions, and sometimes tempers can flare. Damaging your allies or forgetting that you entered a battle and leaving your computer doesn't help your team. 

 

Maybe they don't view the humans who play Co-Op as....humans! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Quick thought @Herr_Reitz, @daVinci761st  ....your Sand Box/Phantom Zone could be a game where only the Orange/Pink Players go. That way they will have longer wait times, have player similar to themselves and do not affect human players who want to enjoy the game.

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i dont play PVE, but i also dont think PVE players deserve this.....

8 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Quick thought @Herr_Reitz, @daVinci761st  ....your Sand Box/Phantom Zone could be a game where only the Orange/Pink Players go. That way they will have longer wait times, have player similar to themselves and do not affect human players who want to enjoy the game.

well, no.....the jail can be 1 pink and 13 bots, doesnt have to be completely human, the point is to reduce jail reward significantly

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1 minute ago, jason199506 said:

i dont play PVE, but i also dont think PVE players deserve this.....

well, no.....the jail can be 1 pink and 13 bots, doesnt have to be completely human, the point is to reduce jail reward significantly

You can reduce rewards for Orange/Pink status; quite simple.

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Why not restrict them to playing tier IV or below in the Phantom Zone? 

Also,  I suggest preventing them from using any premium ships they purchased, since they should have to earn this privilege again.

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With the penalty changes being tested in PTS, I would like to know some exact numbers. Is pink status 1 and done? You bump into someone else in a game while pink, you are automatically relegated to Co-op?

Do the afk penalties happen after one single game? Does the team damage happen upon any damage or triggered after a certain level?

I don't mind the penalties that are being tested, but if you are going to start tacking penalties on everyone, we need to know specific details about how these penalties are applied. Are records being kept? after you work off the penalties, is it still sitting on your account forever and once you hit a certain level, your penalties keep getting larger until you are finally banned? Or is all record of them wiped from your account after the penalties are worked off?

 

I have certain things in RL that I go afk for, no questions asked. There are things that are way more important than a video game.  ButI if someone goes afk once or twice a month, will they eventually end up banned?

@Pigeon_of_War @Radar_X

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Most of my TK 'accidents' are when friendly bots dive all over my torps in Co-Op.

What are you going to do when that happens....   Banish me to Random??

My last Pink Encounter was torping a friendly BB in Space Battles.  Apparently, it's a T7 match with T10 damages.  I got pinked without killing anybody.

I received 15 FIFTEEN pink missions.  But hey..  April Fools..  Took me a couple days, but I finished off my sentence in the ARP Hiei (pink BB).

Scenarios also work...  and you are immune from accidentally bumping others (no pink damage).

 

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20 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Quick thought @Herr_Reitz, @daVinci761st  ....your Sand Box/Phantom Zone could be a game where only the Orange/Pink Players go. That way they will have longer wait times, have player similar to themselves and do not affect human players who want to enjoy the game.

 

9 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

You can reduce rewards for Orange/Pink status; quite simple.

For battles played in this mode.
 

8 minutes ago, 1dennistt said:

Also,  I suggest preventing them from using any premium ships they purchased, since they should have to earn this privilege again.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nutaz said:

 

For battles played in this mode.
 

 

Yep. Pink and Orange in a sandbox where they have reduced rewards and have to wait longer to play matches; seems a good punishment compared to making other players suffer. :Smile_honoring:

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It seems "fair" to me and I love the name "Phantom Zone". I like playing coop once in a while to practice gunnery and ship handling. You pretty much have a target range with reduced factors of unknown behavior by the opposing forces. People there are like 98 or 99 percent of the time quite pleasant. 

Maybe WoWS/WG will read the thread and think about doing it for the benefit of the majority. We'll have to wait and see. 

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I am not certain how much inactivity will be needed, some experimenting on the PT is needed but I hope this is aimed at the abusers who play for a while in a match, cause some damage, and then leave to start a new match. I do hope that the system will be able to tell if a player is stuck loading in.

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As a PVE main this new system really bothers me on 2 levels...

  1. where I play will now be used as the game's jail or punishment zone and all the offenders (many/most of whom committed their crime in PVP not PVE) who TK and go AFK habitually will be pushed onto the PVE community. Yes, we see many pink players now (I have seen as many as 4 in one game be pink) but it isn't ALL of them as many still stay in and play PVP even if Pink. Most of these players are good guys who just made a mistake as well. We will now get ALL these players though; every one of them including the habitual offenders who do these things on purpose and/or through stupidity. Pink and Orange. So PVE players say hello to the dregs of WOWS because they are ALL incoming now. We will get stuck with every single person who has to serve a penalty. Don't mind the accidental kind as we all have been there but we will now get the habitual TK'ers and AFK'ers. 
  2. I think this clearly shows what WG thinks of Co-op and those who play there. We are less than and not important. It's ok to burden PVE players with the reprobates and trouble makers. It's "just Co-op" afterall. We have to protect our sacred and precious PVP from these people so let's throw them in with the low life's that don't matter. THAT is exactly what this says to me. I clearly have been wrong thinking WG actually cared at least a little about PVE players too. 

This has really changed my view on WG. I have given them the benefit of the doubt on so much it isn't funny, I have defended them time and again as well, and I have been a huge financial supporter of the game even as a lowly PVE main. That may just change. If this turns out as badly as I think it will it will be the straw that drives me away. I play Co-op because it is not like PVP with all the salt, unacceptable behavior, and asshats. Now WG is going to implement a system that will throw people who excel at salt, unacceptable behavior, and being asshats into Co-op. The entire reason myself and so many others play there is being undermined. :Smile-angry:

The idea/concept in and of itself is a good one. Punish these habitual offenders and get them to stop the unacceptable behavior. The way they are going about it though is just wrong and terribly misguided. The offenders should either A) - play in a restricted mode with JUST other offenders ( either vs each other or vs bots - but NO regular players) or B) - receive time bans from the game that start short for 1st infractions and eventually lead to a complete ban. 

I could be wrong (won't be first time) and it won't be as bad as I think. But if it is as bad as I think it will be I am done with this game. I also just don't like what this conveys about how WG views PVE players. That might be the biggest issue here for me. Supporting a company who has no respect for me as a customer is not high on my to do list.

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It's a good idea and that's what GTA V Onlines does.

If a player destroys to many player owned cars (I think it's cars anyway) they earn a negative rep and are sent to play on servers with other people who did the exact same thing, all while wearing a "dunce" hat for an undisclosed amount of time as punishment.

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7 minutes ago, SirMuttonChops said:

It's a good idea and that's what GTA V Onlines does.

If a player destroys to many player owned cars (I think it's cars anyway) they earn a negative rep and are sent to play on servers with other people who did the exact same thing, all while wearing a "dunce" hat for an undisclosed amount of time as punishment.

DOTA 2 did something similar. I dont understand why WeeGee tries to reinvent the wheel / insist on using antiquated MP dogmas.

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There were several lengthy threads about this BEFORE this update released some of the details, apparently WG has decided to try this anyway.  I would wait until this actually happens and see how many Orange players show up before raising a hue and cry.  Do you realize that if you simply drive your ship into an orange player, he will probably die from the reflected damage?  I'd say the PvE players have a decent control over the behavior of any Orange players wandering around their games.

This isn't really about the Orange players being forced to use PvE, it's about the PvE "only" players feeling disrespected and put upon.  The seven that post repeatedly in every PvE thread have become an echo chamber of sorts,  and feel that there is a much larger population on the NA server of PvE only players than probably exists.  If the oft quoted 30% of the pop are PvE only players, explain why at 2-3 am when there are over 5k players on the server, I routinely get 7 bot team mates in my matches?  30% of 5k is 1,500 players - are you trying to tell me that I can't get a match with ANY human players out of 1,500 when I am in a 1 minute que at tier 7?

The reality is that the population of PvE "only" players is a lot smaller than 30%. I would gather that 30% sometimes play PvE , but I would put full time PvE at a much smaller number. I routinely use PvE it for any mission that will allow it due to time considerations, the matches are over in 6-8 minutes versus 12-15.  It's a fine mode to derp around in and I certainly don't want it to be populated by angry misanthropes who repeatedly team damage or afk, but I would much rather have them cooling their heels in PvE then PvP or ranked. 

Hopefully if these Orange reprobates don't behave better in PvE, they will be kicked to an all bot PvE, and based on the propensity of the bots to run into you or try and ram you, they will be stuck there for eternity, or until they quit.

The point is that WG is a business, and they want to try and reform behavior first before they have to permanently ban people in a F2P, fairness to WG dictates we wait until it fails before we start complaining about it before hand.

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1 hour ago, Herr_Reitz said:

... I was pondering this morning about the message being sent to players via the "sanctioned to coop", the "go to coop to work off your bad behavior".  Coop may, in the near future, be considered almost a detention center, you know? 

So how about a suggestion... rather than place the TK'ing, unsporting players in with folks who just enjoy nice, relaxing games of coop, how about you place them in their own mode, where the rewards and such are half or three-quarters what they are in coop? Call it the Penalty Box maybe? 

I think that would send a much stronger message to all the players.

And if I read the announcement correctly, does that mean in the near future, the only way we'll see pink in randoms will be if the player actually goes pink in your match? tiafyc

I’ve depinked twice in Co-op for making mistakes took about 16 minutes to do 5 games ...that was penance enough and didn’t see any other pinky’s 

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58 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

But isn't that where they normally go to work off the stain anyway?

What happens when you get pink in co-op? Do you then get pushed into the training room to shoot at moving bots for a while? (That would actually not be a bad thing.)

I haven’t been pink in quite a while, but I stopped worrying about the badge of shame and just battled through it.  Most people don’t care about it as long as you’re helpful and contribute to the team.  Honestly, I’ve seen very few instances of intentional poor behavior.  Far fewer than, detonations, for example.

Even then, most of that has just been people trolling in chat.  I can only remember twice where I’ve been intentionally TK’ed, and over a lot of battles, I don’t entirely see what the big hoo-hah is.

Personally, I would rather see ‘punishment’ be more along the lines of vastly reduced xp/credit earnings while pink, rather than a penalty box approach, but hey, what do I know?

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23 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I am not certain how much inactivity will be needed, some experimenting on the PT is needed but I hope this is aimed at the abusers who play for a while in a match, cause some damage, and then leave to start a new match. I do hope that the system will be able to tell if a player is stuck loading in.

That or the players who don't like the MM so they just quit the game/match and go play another before the game even starts or those who leave a game because their team is losing. You see guys admit to doing that all the time here on the forums. That is the kind of afk that needs to be removed/punished. Hopefully they have a system that tells them if it is intentional afk vs being booted.

A few intentional afk's spread out over long periods is not a punishable thing IMO either. I have a very small handful of intentional afk's in my time playing WOWS. I mean I am not going to let my dog go to the bathroom or puke on the floor so I can keep playing a game if a doggie emergency arises. If say my MS med's show up right mid game, which has happened, I am not going to let the FedEx guy leave with them so I can keep playing. Real life things happen that take priority over a game so an afk here and there spread out over long periods should not be an issue and held against the player long term.

Also, you shouldn't be punished because the game boots you or you lose your connection and can't get back which happens quite often to many players. I run into that (game booting me) every few months. I have even had games where I can see the game playing out but I can't do anything in it. Chat and ship controls stop working and my ship will either stop or just go straight in the last direction. It never lets you back/starts working again. You have to exit the game and reload and hope you can get back. Does that get held against you?

TK is the same IMO. Occasional TK's will happen to the best of us. Multiple over and over though is what needs to be addressed and dealt with. So how will they deal with this? Is everyone dumped into the same offender pool or do they take factors into account?

I agree with the OP. I know WG loves to keep things secret but this is a situation where full disclosure and transparency is called for and warranted. Lay out the rules and how this will be tracked and implemented. Let the player base know how it works.

Edited by AdmiralThunder

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15 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

As a PVE main this new system really bothers me on 2 levels...

  1. where I play will now be used as the game's jail or punishment zone and all the offenders (many/most of whom committed their crime in PVP not PVE) who TK and go AFK habitually will be pushed onto the PVE community. Yes, we see many pink players now (I have seen as many as 4 in one game be pink) but it isn't ALL of them as many still stay in and play PVP even if Pink. Most of these players are good guys who just made a mistake as well. We will now get ALL these players though; every one of them including the habitual offenders who do these things on purpose and/or through stupidity. Pink and Orange. So PVE players say hello to the dregs of WOWS because they are ALL incoming now. We will get stuck with every single person who has to serve a penalty. Don't mind the accidental kind as we all have been there but we will now get the habitual TK'ers and AFK'ers. 
  2. I think this clearly shows what WG thinks of Co-op and those who play there. We are less than and not important. It's ok to burden PVE players with the reprobates and trouble makers. It's "just Co-op" afterall. We have to protect our sacred and precious PVP from these people so let's throw them in with the low life's that don't matter. THAT is exactly what this says to me. I clearly have been wrong thinking WG actually cared at least a little about PVE players too. 

This has really changed my view on WG. I have given them the benefit of the doubt on so much it isn't funny, I have defended them time and again as well, and I have been a huge financial supporter of the game even as a lowly PVE main. That may just change. If this turns out as badly as I think it will it will be the straw that drives me away. I play Co-op because it is not like PVP with all the salt, unacceptable behavior, and asshats. Now WG is going to implement a system that will throw people who excel at salt, unacceptable behavior, and being asshats into Co-op. The entire reason myself and so many others play there is being undermined. :Smile-angry:

The idea/concept in and of itself is a good one. Punish these habitual offenders and get them to stop the unacceptable behavior. The way they are going about it though is just wrong and terribly misguided. The offenders should either A) - play in a restricted mode with JUST other offenders ( either vs each other or vs bots - but NO regular players) or B) - receive time bans from the game that start short for 1st infractions and eventually lead to a complete ban. 

I could be wrong (won't be first time) and it won't be as bad as I think. But if it is as bad as I think it will be I am done with this game. I also just don't like what this conveys about how WG views PVE players. That might be the biggest issue here for me. Supporting a company who has no respect for me as a customer is not high on my to do list.

Let me ask this: what happens to a habitual offender if the PvE players report him for intentional TKing or harassment?

 

Automated system locks them to co-op, and instead of chill pills, they take it out on the co-op mains. It seems to me, AdmiralThunder, that WG is letting those jerks basically give evidence they cannot be trusted in pvp, and if they prove same in pve, then whoosh! account bans.

 

So in a sense, WG is volunteering you to help keep an eye on those ruffians. No sorrow for being a jerk? They prove that, you report them for language or intentional TK, and WG does the rest.

 

I realize it's stupid, the concept of your co-op time disrupted by kids with anger management issues, but at same time, you got big opportunity to help WG ID exactly who should be banned. I wouldn't mind being an undercover guy that sounds the alarm over "WGSucks400 is griefing in co-op, here's the replay."

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I have the perfect solution to TK, AFK, Bad Team play issue.

1. Create a ship that only functions as a support/auxiliary capabilities. No weapons period.

2. This ship has a countdown timer attached to it. If the player commits any violation (ie; runs into another player), said timer resets and they start over to clear their current status ( be it pink or orange)

3 At the end of a match, a certain amount of "good conduct" goes to clearing out their infractions.

4. Upon clearing out their penalties, they are reinstated to  Command and can resume combat privileges. 

5 Limit one player per side, per match as to not take away from actual gameplay by good players

6 While they are "flagged", they have no access to combat ships until their status is cleared.

 

Is this too harsh of a punishment? I dont believe so. In order to clear their status, they are working towards a goal to redeem themselves. It also serves as a warning to play fair. Also, it does not interfere with gameplay of others in randoms or coops.

 

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