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shotgun2010

Tier 10 German vs US BBs

which ship is better?  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Which ship is better?

    • GK
      19
    • Montana
      38
  2. 2. which grind is better?

    • German
      38
    • American
      19

16 comments in this topic

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hi, i want to know how GK compares to Montana. i've experienced the GK somewhat in space mode (alldestroyer), and it was not really fun to play. thing is, i completely screwed up the captain build and i don't have the elite xp to reset... im am much further along one line than the other, but i won't say which cuz i don't want that to influence your response. so the GK feels bad, i have no experience in the Monty, which line should i grind up if i want tier 10?

Edited by shotgun2010

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I don't think that the GK is bad at all.  It's just not for everybody.  Its guns aren't as accurate as other T10 BBs, but having a volley of 12 shells does tend to give you enough volley density to make up somewhat for that inaccuracy.  But the GK is really meant for brawling.  And with her excellent secondaries, the GK  tends to be less than she can be if you're not using a secondary build.

The Montana, OTOH, is an excellent BB that can fight effectively at long and mid ranges due to her nicely accurate guns combined with her 12 shell volleys.  IMO, the best case scenario for the Montana is to try to fight in the mid range where your accuracy can be devastating, while remaining outside of secondary range of the German BBs you might face.  This plays to your strengths (good armor and excellent main gun accuracy) and counters theirs (by denying them their secondaries against you).

Edited by Crucis
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GK's shells suffer alot in the game's current meta if the inaccuracy was not enough, Montana shines pretty well as mid range combatant while GK needs an opportunity to safely get close to be really effective.

At T9 the Iowa is pretty much better than the FDG.

I just find that the US BBs have their accuracy and survivability to be a strong point.

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Montana's claim to fame is ultra-reliable gunnery, easy to incorporate AA.  Her 16"/50 x12 guns alone make her relevant.  These are powerful, hard hitting, accurate guns, even at range, and she packs 12 of them.  When I play my High Tier Cruisers, even pelting BBs at range, Montana is one of the scariest ones to get shot at by.  She's accurate, the shells are punishing, and she has 12 guns.

 

GK's claim to fame is fantastic armor, citadel protection, and Mega Secondary Battery.  She also sports the best hydro in the game, Tier X German Hydro, which is very useful at times.

 

Montana tends to prefer medium and long range engagements, but she's flexible enough to brawl if need be, but the player needs to be careful.

GK is a Pure Brawling Specialist.  If she has to duel at range against Montana, Conqueror, Yamato, then she will be in big trouble.  But in a short ranged fight, GK can absorb a terrific amount of punishment.  GK in a brawl, secondaries roaring, 406mm or 420mm guns firing, that's where she's at her best.  No Tier X BB matches her, except for Republique, which is a new entrant for high tier brawling Battleships.

 

Both are excellent ships but for very different duties.  IMO Montana is better because the High Tier Meta is very long range oriented, at least for a good long while in a match.  Montana's guns will ALWAYS make her relevant, regardless of the engagement range.  But when it comes time to push, and you need a Battleship as the bulwark for that push, nobody touches what GK can do.  She'll stay in the fight a long time, secondaries acting like another ship, and her main batter are in their element.

 

When I play a DD, Cruiser as part of a high tier push, I love GK because the players look for the chance to close range and brawl at every opportunity they can.  GK will be there, while other BB types will run away.  A strong BB with good firepower, staying power like GK is an immense luxury to the smaller ships of the team nearby.  A DD has so much more freedom to move when there's a GK nearby causing problems.

Conquerors will stay far back.

Many Montana players won't get close.

It's in Yamato's interest to stay at a safer distance.

But GK will be there with you.

 

Again, both BBs are great but for vastly different reasons.

=====

As for which grind is faster?

 

About the same.  Both lines have some mediocre ships which make life difficult.  Earlier on, German BBs are smoother to grind, except for Gneisenau at Tier VII.  Lots of guys don't like FDG at Tier IX, and a bad ship to grind at Tier IX is a long grind.  USN BBs are IMO, very mediocre Tier VII and below, some downright horrible like New York at Tier V.  But once you get to Tier VIII, you are left with the best ships the USN BB Line has to offer for the rest of the way.  USN BB Line is a "Late blooming" ship line.  A VERY late blooming ship line.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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1 hour ago, shotgun2010 said:

i completely screwed up the captain build

Transfer another commander that isn't used yet...you can do that for free with the Space Battle commanders...as long as you haven't specced them all out for the ships they are on...any of them will do.

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Grinding up the line. I will say the Germans are easier and more forgiving. it doesn't teach you what you really need to know. example is making sure your angled. On the US line though once you hit the north cal the USA bbs really start to shine. The germans play about the same all the way through, Though once you hit tier 8 you get really nice range on secondaries, which are pretty nice. as for the Montana vs GK. they kinda play different so both are situational when it comes to which one is better. Montana has better accuracy. But the GK when it is moving in on you is much scarier then a Montana moving in on you. GK can tank shells a lot better then Montana, but the Montana if you are in her gun range can always get a nice grouping of shells(most of the time) GK isn't as reliable at range. one of the big reason you see more Montana's in clan battles.

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Tier 4-8 german ships are easy, fun, and effective. The 9 and 10 are for masochists with the current meta. Tier 6, 8, and 10 USN ships are fun and effective.  Tier 7 and 9 USN ships are very difficult but unusually rewarding.

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1 hour ago, X15 said:

Tier 4-8 german ships are easy, fun, and effective. The 9 and 10 are for masochists with the current meta. Tier 6, 8, and 10 USN ships are fun and effective.  Tier 7 and 9 USN ships are very difficult but unusually rewarding.

I think that the problem is often less the meta and more what map you're on.  Some high tier maps are too open for the GK to relatively safely play to its strength, i.e. brawling, while other high tier maps are relatively favorable for her.

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Both the GK and Montana are really good BB's but you need to play them to their strengths. Montana is best played mid-long range with it's very accurate guns, good speed, and decent maneuverability for a T10 BB. It also has amazing AA. Not a great brawler but can get by in need.

GK is not a great long range BB due to typical German gun accuracy (but it actually isn't too bad truth be told - just not accurate like US or IJN BB's). GK is a close - mid range BB with very good armor and amazing secondary guns. Once you get closer the main gun accuracy improves and it's guns hit pretty hard. 

Both are really good but both need to play to their strengths vs their weaknesses to do well.

As far as the grinds go overall I would say the German grind is easier. Both lines have good ships for the most part but early on the slow speed and slow reload of US BB's can make it tough.

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Depends on your play style.  Gk has more staying power due to larger HP pool.  But u still need to angle to make it work.  It’s best to get mid range and support your team.  And with hydro it allows u to push dds.  

However that being said.  Montana has slightly better guns and very good AA.  And for sure more maneuverable and can dodge torpedoes.  Gk even though with hydro due to his size u will eat at least 1.  

I love to play them both.  I am not afraid to be close to the cap to support my dds.  But unfortunately some games, my dds yolo and dies or does not play the objective cause me to kite away.  

Gk is more forgiving due to the armour not eating citade therefore a good dmg sponge.  And with the current meta I did not go secondary build.  I went with pure survival and stealth allowing me to get into position and go dark to heal when needed.  

Honestly both are good choices.  But if I have to pick one.  The Monty has a slight edge due to the guns and better AA.  More all round ship for all situations.  

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I really like German BB's and the Space Kurfurst clicks for me. I just got Bismarck and I'm liking her so far, even when stock. I personally liked the Gneisenau. Yeah only 6 is guns annoying but when they hit you feel it. The torps make her the perfect brawler as well. I haven't played the tree USN BB's, but I have Texas from an invite code, and she's ok. I like her, but the reload and speed(or lack thereof) is definitely a put-off for me. I'd take a Konig over Tex any day. I play aggressive, so German BB's fit my playstyle better.

Edited by _Maho_Nishizumi_212

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The "Brawling Battleship" style is much more feasible Tier VIII and below, but once you start dealing with the Tier IX-X Meta of "Range Uber Alles," then things get a lot more difficult for a brawler.

 

It's fun, easy taking Bismarck and running over POS Tier VI Battleships with 6-7km secondary ranges compared to your 11.3km range, your 30kts to their 21kts, your ability to bounce lower tier BB shells with ease while you overmatch their bow, etc.  But that changes where you're fighting Cruisers, even Battleships that will accurately land shells at you 16km and further with ease.

 

Don't take what's happening in Space Battles as what will happen in actual Random PVP matches at Tier VIII-X.  There is a lot of dumb play in Space Battles with people playing Tier X ships that have never played high tier.  I mean, I took the Space Z-52 within 5km of a Space Des Moines, popped smoke, popped hydro, and started shooting and torping the DM, and the DM player didn't know what to do.  In Randoms, if I tried that with a DD against a DM player, I'd be massacred in a few seconds.  I may not even survive long enough before the smoke takes hold.

 

In Space Battles, I see Space Minotaurs get to 9km of my Space Des Moines, slow down, pop smoke.

"Are you serious???  Do I look like a dumb[edited] noob?" :Smile_teethhappy:

So I pop Radar and crucify the Space Minotaur in 2 Space Des Moines salvos firing American Piercing shells.  There's so much idiocy in Space Battles that it defies logic.

 

Anyways, not saying a Brawling Battleship cannot work in Tier VIII-X matches.  But it's going to be hard and nothing at all like the easy dominance like Bismarck beating up on Arizona and New Mexico.

 

I have all the Tier X Battleships.  I love them all, they all excel in certain areas.  But I will say, for most of a match, it's tougher to keep GK relevant than the ease I have with something like Montana.  When GK gets into the brawl setting, she's amazing, but getting to that scenario, that's the troubling part.

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these opinions are interesting, I recall that when GK just came out, everyone said montana was made useless... 

has anything changed since then? (I didn't play this game back then)

Edited by shotgun2010

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1 hour ago, shotgun2010 said:

these opinions are interesting, I recall that when GK just came out, everyone said montana was made useless... 

has anything changed since then? (I didn't play this game back then)

There was only one part when this game was live, that Montana was wholly useless.

 

Back when it was just Montana and Yamato, before Monty got buffs, before the citadel got lowered, when Yamato had Mega Repair Party.  Before Montana got those numerous buffs, she was really a POS.  As far as people were concerned, there was only one, true Tier X BB.  Yamato.  Montana was often insulted, derided... "A Tier 9.5 ship Battleship."

 

But after her many buffs which came over years, she is now the "Standard" of Tier X BBs.  After her fixes, when newer BBs came out:  Conqueror, France / Republique, they were compared to Montana.  Namely due to the guns.  Yamato still is about a special but quirky set of guns.  But Montana sets the standard for power, accuracy, volume of fire.  Before Conqueror, Republique came out, I still remember the derision those ships received by players because their guns were not up to the standard of Montana's guns.

 

When Conqueror came out, there was a belief, even by one of the popular Community Contributors on YouTube, that she made Conqueror obsolete.  She hasn't.

 

Now, when GK came out, Montana still had that tall citadel.  Tier IX-X USN BBs were easy to crush because of the tall citadels, and everybody was whacking them for 5, 6, 7 citadel hits in one salvo.  In contrast, GK is sturdy as hell.  With the lower citadel, it's a completely different ball game now, and Montana is no longer the punching bag she once was.

 

Back in the days when it was just Yamato and Montana at Tier X BBs, if you took Montana into a PVP match, people got mad at you. 

Back in those days, people said things like, "You grinding up the USN BB Line?  Stop at Tier VIII or IX."

That doesn't happen anymore.  She is a solid Battleship now.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 hours ago, shotgun2010 said:

these opinions are interesting, I recall that when GK just came out, everyone said montana was made useless... 

has anything changed since then? (I didn't play this game back then)

When GK first came out, Montana still had high citadels and 29mm deck armor.

High citadels means Montana gets citadel'ed easily by Yamato's 460mm guns from bow. 29mm deck armor gets overmatched by both Yamato's 460mm guns and GK's 420mm guns. It also gets penetrated by 203mm cruiser HE shells. So she was a very squishy ship back then.

She did already have the 11% dispersion module and 1.9 sigma at that time. So she wasn't completely useless simply because she could punish broadside targets extremely hard with 12 accurate guns. But she simply got outclasses by the other 2 T10 BBs.

 

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I'm quite successful with GK, at least I help team win games. I usually don't see Monty as much of a threat, not like GK or Yammy. Angle and wait for an opportunity when Monty will expose her side. She is a good ship as all T10s are, but just not as scary when playing a GK.

I side with Flamu on the question of secondary build for Kurfurst. I played full secondary from Gneis to FDG and it's fun, but GK is better at soaking damage for the team and supporting friendly DDs and CLs at caps. GK has significantly more firepower than any German BBs before her, so importance of secondary is limited. You're seriously putting yourself in grave danger when purposely closing to sec range while the best idea is to use your superior defense to push flanks and put enemy BBs out of position and force them to retreat and relocate. 

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