Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Avenge_December_7

Citadelling Battleships in Cruisers

23 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

708
[STW-D]
Members
1,859 posts
5,651 battles

Right now, my highest tier cruiser is the New Orleans at tier 8, and while I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, I think I underutilize cruiser AP against battleships a lot (the exception would be Cleveland and the British cruisers, only because of the high rate of fire and British's lack of HE)

So I've watched all those videos of Moskvas and Henri IVs citadelling Yamatos, Iowas, etc. Yet I've tried it with New Orleans in the training room (someone once told me in chat that New Orleans can citadel Iowa/Yamato at single digit range) and failed to get any citadels.

Could someone compile a list of which cruisers can citadel which battleships? I prefer not to be fruitlessly firing and shattering HE at 7 km while the battleship casually lines up an AP salvo to my citadel.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,446
[HINON]
Supertester
18,912 posts
12,446 battles

It's impossible to make such a list because it depends on luck, aim, distance, angle, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[DIEBL]
Members
1,413 posts
14,205 battles

yesterday I cit a New Mex in my Kidd was pretty cool I thought but honestly don't be expecting Cits on BB with 203s that much, gotta be to close and hope to god his turrets are chasing down something else but yeah it can be done for sure

Edited by GuntherPrein

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,582
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,283 battles
19 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

Right now, my highest tier cruiser is the New Orleans at tier 8, and while I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, I think I underutilize cruiser AP against battleships a lot (the exception would be Cleveland and the British cruisers, only because of the high rate of fire and British's lack of HE)

So I've watched all those videos of Moskvas and Henri IVs citadelling Yamatos, Iowas, etc. Yet I've tried it with New Orleans in the training room (someone once told me in chat that New Orleans can citadel Iowa/Yamato at single digit range) and failed to get any citadels.

Could someone compile a list of which cruisers can citadel which battleships? I prefer not to be fruitlessly firing and shattering HE at 7 km while the battleship casually lines up an AP salvo to my citadel.

 

Honestly, I don't worry about looking for cits with cruisers vs BBs.  If they happen, they happen.  I just aim for the top edge of the hull and generally aim for superstructure hits, looking for full penning hits.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
540
Members
2,059 posts
5,097 battles

I've played almost every cruiser in the game, none of them consistently penetrate BBs at any range or angle I'm aware of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
293
[BROOK]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,983 posts

Cruiser AP used to be better at punishing BB Cits until all the BB Cits got sunk to the waterline or behind turtleback armor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
62
[SSBN]
Members
291 posts
4,930 battles

The last few I got were a conq and Bismarck. Both were in my Hindy 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,156 posts
4,848 battles

while citadel hits on BBs with cruisers is no sure thing, penetrating hits above the armored citadel are. you can really do massive damage to a broadside BB with cruiser AP if you aim high, which is usually a better option than aiming low and hoping you pen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
936
Members
4,448 posts
6,147 battles
46 minutes ago, MidnightShamalan said:

while citadel hits on BBs with cruisers is no sure thing, penetrating hits above the armored citadel are. you can really do massive damage to a broadside BB with cruiser AP if you aim high, which is usually a better option than aiming low and hoping you pen.

Yup. Agree.  Correct. You will generally do damage aiming at superstructure.  Often quite a lot. You are pretty much wasting your time, generally, trying to pen BB citadel armor with Cruiser AP.  At least in my experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
755
[SF-A]
Members
2,848 posts
5,548 battles

Broadside on, probably US or IJN BBs are easiest to citadel. To do this, you essentially need 203s or bigger. If you can, go for bigger guns like Moskva's 220s or Henri's 240s. I haven't played enough German or American cruisers to say if their guns fare better, but they each have superb AP, so it's not unlikely.

Mind you these are flat broadsides at ranges of less than 10km for any semblance of reliability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
842 posts

I've citadeled BBs (in non-freakish ways) in pretty much all 200mm or bigger gun cruisers of US, IJN, KM, or French origin. I don't play USSR ones, so I can't speak to them, and RN ones never get about 152mm.

It's only been when I'm up close: 3km or less. And it usually was through the bow or stern - the BB sterns that are rounded (French, RN, US) are by far the easiest route to a citadel.  US AP works well through the bows, but I can't remember any other cruiser giving me a BB citadel when shooting through the bow - the angles are all against you. Punching through the belt armor is incredibly difficult, even flat broadside.

 

In any case, you never try for a citadel shooting CA AP. It's just a lucky bonus. The Bow/Stern are just good reliable places for Pen damage, as well as the upper hull. Avoid the superstructure - that's overpen city for anything above 200mm.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
708
[STW-D]
Members
1,859 posts
5,651 battles
7 hours ago, EAnybody said:

I've citadeled BBs (in non-freakish ways) in pretty much all 200mm or bigger gun cruisers of US, IJN, KM, or French origin. I don't play USSR ones, so I can't speak to them, and RN ones never get about 152mm.

It's only been when I'm up close: 3km or less. And it usually was through the bow or stern - the BB sterns that are rounded (French, RN, US) are by far the easiest route to a citadel.  US AP works well through the bows, but I can't remember any other cruiser giving me a BB citadel when shooting through the bow - the angles are all against you. Punching through the belt armor is incredibly difficult, even flat broadside.

 

In any case, you never try for a citadel shooting CA AP. It's just a lucky bonus. The Bow/Stern are just good reliable places for Pen damage, as well as the upper hull. Avoid the superstructure - that's overpen city for anything above 200mm.

Huh, so no more of those New Orleans citadelling Iowas anymore?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
388
[C-CA]
[C-CA]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,423 posts
3,367 battles

Honestly? The metric I know of is to go for faster BBs at your tier and dreadnoughts below your tier, that's the best way I know of to tell "can you cit it?" in a cruiser.  Graf Spee is an exception of course with those 11 inchers, but she can still only handle up to her tier, a New Mexico or Bayern or something point-blank with secondaries blazing. Still, I'm with everyone else, don't worry about citadel hits, just worry about damage.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
691
[DRACS]
Members
3,349 posts

Depends on the battleship. Forget German BBs completely. Forget tier 10 BBs with 400m belts unless you are within ramming distance. But some high tier BBs have really soft sides like Iowas and North Carolinas. I've citadeled Iowas with USN 203s, so I know its entirely possible.

Generally speaking, your safest bet is for those regular AP pens on upper belts which are much more thinly armored. Which is still double the damage from HE. A Hindenburg shooting at a broadside BB 10km away can rip out 10k chunks every 8 seconds. Trust me, it adds up fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30
[TSPC]
Members
173 posts
6,271 battles

Typically, you will mainly citadel BBs with an all or nothing armor scheme

At T10, these ships will have ~410mm of belt armor - Yamato: 410 angled down and away ~10 deg Montana: 409 angled down and away ~5-10 degrees and underwater

Also, Yamato has a cheek which is 340mm thick - can be penned w/ ~400mm - 420mm pen 

- if you also want to do it at a slight angle you will need [nominal thickness] / cos(angle) - say 10 - 20 degrees 

- give or take 430mm - 450mm pen needed to the citadel [guesstimation]

At T9, Iowa and Missouri have 307mm angled down and away by 20deg - effective: 326mm - w/ torp belt / slight firing angle - need give or talke 340mm pen

Using this: https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/ one can see that:

New Orleans can citadel Iowa at: ~4km, Yamato cheek: ~2km, Yam/MT belt ~1km [probably will be hard to pull these off]

For a list of ones that [I know for sure] can:

Moskva, Henri IV, Des Moines, Zao,

Baltimore, Graf Spee

Potentially: 

Charles Martel, St. Louis, Donskoi, Hindenburg, Roon, Hipper 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24
[ODIN]
Members
55 posts
13,987 battles
On April 10, 2018 at 5:42 PM, GuntherPrein said:

yesterday I cit a New Mex in my Kidd was pretty cool I thought but honestly don't be expecting Cits on BB with 203s that much, gotta be to close and hope to god his turrets are chasing down something else but yeah it can be done for sure

Wow 127mm go through 13.5 inch of steel? I've cit North Carolina in pensicolas b4 but neve 127mm dd AP. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
280 posts
9,275 battles

my most stunning BB cit, in a huanghe. Still not sure how it happened at 10k.

shot-18_04.01_01_00.06-0880.thumb.jpg.99d33acae7fd395395de3e24c4a6cec7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,583
[E-E]
[E-E]
Members
15,587 posts
14,010 battles

Caesar has really poor armor.  It doesn't surprise me that AP shells to the sides did that, at that range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
74
[AR]
[AR]
Members
311 posts
11,625 battles

Making a list for this would be too tedious. I will say this, you can cit most BBs with most cruisers given the right conditions. And that often means being say 5-9Km away from its broadside. You can even citadel a North Carolina in a Fiji from 12.5km away in fact, I've done it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
382
[WOLFB]
Members
1,653 posts
8,034 battles

Henri can citadel some BB but it's really rare. Despite having the biggest gun of all T10 cruiser, all my shell that doesn't result in citadel are shattered. I know NC and Missouri can be citadeled but since they lowered Montana's citadel, it became nearly impossible to citadel her. I mean I did get a few cit on her but it was just RNG fooling around allowing some shell to citadel an angled BB then once you have flat broadside you have nothing but shatter.

 

Just aim the upper belt armor, you'll get consistent damage 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
605 posts
7,221 battles
On 4/10/2018 at 5:31 PM, Avenge_December_7 said:

Right now, my highest tier cruiser is the New Orleans at tier 8, and while I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, I think I underutilize cruiser AP against battleships a lot (the exception would be Cleveland and the British cruisers, only because of the high rate of fire and British's lack of HE)

So I've watched all those videos of Moskvas and Henri IVs citadelling Yamatos, Iowas, etc. Yet I've tried it with New Orleans in the training room (someone once told me in chat that New Orleans can citadel Iowa/Yamato at single digit range) and failed to get any citadels.

Could someone compile a list of which cruisers can citadel which battleships? I prefer not to be fruitlessly firing and shattering HE at 7 km while the battleship casually lines up an AP salvo to my citadel.

 

Here is a calculator that shows optimal AP penetration for all the ships based on range.  It also shows a lot of other useful information like krupp values, flight times vs distance, etc.  Can't remember where I stumbled across it or would credit its creator.

So if you want to know which ship NO can possibly citadel just look at the armor values of BBs in game with the armor viewer that you will face in tier spread and compare that to range and penetration values.  Hope it helps.

Cheers.

https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
448
[-AA-]
Members
1,728 posts
6,657 battles

DM can citadel broadside Iowa/Missouri and Yamato at close range (around 6KM) for sure. Always say hi when you come around the island to teach them a lesson :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30
[TSPC]
Members
173 posts
6,271 battles
On 4/23/2018 at 10:53 AM, LemonadeWarrior said:

DM can citadel broadside Iowa/Missouri and Yamato at close range (around 6KM) for sure. Always say hi when you come around the island to teach them a lesson :)

Yamato ~2km in DM from in game experience; Iowa/Missouri ~4km - just trying to prevent any DM from getting humiliated

 

Also there might be some weird gaps in BB armor which can be exploited to get strange citadels - armor model viewer in game probably does not give a complete picture

- Just don't expect to pull it off consistently

Edited by 901234
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×