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zubalkabir

Isokaze vs Minekaze?

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Just went back and re-purchased Isokaze.  I went the Mutzuki-Yugumo route the first time out, and thought I'd try the other side of the tree.  While grinding XP toward Minekaze, I figured out Isokaze is way more fun than I remembered.  The guns are awkward and slow, but they actually do decent damage.  I did over 10k damage to a BB the other day with just guns.  Even the 34 knot speed doesn't seem to hinder it that much, which surprises me, since I hated Kagero and Yugomo for their speed, and they are actually a bit faster.  I guess it's all relative to what you are fighting against at any given tier, because I still play the V-170, and the speed seems adequate.

Now, Minekaze looks like almost the same ship.  Guns have shorter range, but fire faster.  Same torps. But 39 knots!!  Sounds like fun, but I'm guessing there must be a downside somewhere.  I'm thinking it's because it sees tier 7, and Isokaze sees mostly tier 3-4.  Is the 39 knot speed enough to compensate?

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The AA is really bad on the Minekaze.  Whereas with the Mutsuki, I can shoot down annoying spotter planes, no chance with the Minekaze.  The torps are not as good as the Mutsuki, either.   

Edited by PrairiePlayer

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6 minutes ago, zubalkabir said:

Just went back and re-purchased Isokaze.  I went the Mutzuki-Yugumo route the first time out, and thought I'd try the other side of the tree.  While grinding XP toward Minekaze, I figured out Isokaze is way more fun than I remembered.  The guns are awkward and slow, but they actually do decent damage.  I did over 10k damage to a BB the other day with just guns.  Even the 34 knot speed doesn't seem to hinder it that much, which surprises me, since I hated Kagero and Yugomo for their speed, and they are actually a bit faster.  I guess it's all relative to what you are fighting against at any given tier, because I still play the V-170, and the speed seems adequate.

Now, Minekaze looks like almost the same ship.  Guns have shorter range, but fire faster.  Same torps. But 39 knots!!  Sounds like fun, but I'm guessing there must be a downside somewhere.  I'm thinking it's because it sees tier 7, and Isokaze sees mostly tier 3-4.  Is the 39 knot speed enough to compensate?

Basically...

 

Minekaze is an Isokaze with slightly better guns and a big speed boost. But more players are learning the WASD hax at tier 5-7. And USN DDs upgrade to the 127mm/38.

Does the huge speed boost make up for it?

Ehhhhhh...

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For those Tier 4 RANDOM missions that pop up.

Random BB is either the Orion, Imperator, or Ishizuchi -- depending on what's needed.

Random CA is the Svietlana, but I also have the Yubari.

If Tier 4 Random DD matches are required, I usually go with the Isokaze with a 10 point captain.  Lately, I've been looking at  the ShenYang.

If it's Co-Op -- then my DD choice is obviously the V-170.  Nothing kills bots faster than that demon.

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1 hour ago, zubalkabir said:

Just went back and re-purchased Isokaze.  I went the Mutzuki-Yugumo route the first time out, and thought I'd try the other side of the tree.  While grinding XP toward Minekaze, I figured out Isokaze is way more fun than I remembered.  The guns are awkward and slow, but they actually do decent damage.  I did over 10k damage to a BB the other day with just guns.  Even the 34 knot speed doesn't seem to hinder it that much, which surprises me, since I hated Kagero and Yugomo for their speed, and they are actually a bit faster.  I guess it's all relative to what you are fighting against at any given tier, because I still play the V-170, and the speed seems adequate.

Now, Minekaze looks like almost the same ship.  Guns have shorter range, but fire faster.  Same torps. But 39 knots!!  Sounds like fun, but I'm guessing there must be a downside somewhere.  I'm thinking it's because it sees tier 7, and Isokaze sees mostly tier 3-4.  Is the 39 knot speed enough to compensate?

Speed and stealth is it's bread and butter. I play the Kamikaze, and if you play smart, watch the mini map, yes speed and stealth will help offset Tier 7.

The Torpedo on the other hand, well, not so much.

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the downside is that while the guns fire faster, they'll never be on target because of the slower rotation speed. combined with the increased ship speed, it makes it next to impossible to shoot anything on the move without sailing in a straight line, which is a no-no considering the extremely short range. all with the same slow torps that can see T7.

i remember when the Minekaze used to be fun. then WG broke it's teeth without giving it anything to compensate.

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If you compared the two, how they actually perform, Iso obliterates Mine. In part, this is due to the MM spread they see, Iso is at the top of its spread, more or less, it can handle T5 DD's but sees more T4 and T3 than anything, whereas Mine, even in the hands of a really good driver, has issues going above its tier, and it sees T7 with absurd regularity.

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Hmm.  Thanks for the input.  I'll continue to grind, but at least I have an idea what I'm looking forward to now.

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3 hours ago, PrairiePlayer said:

The torps are not as good as the Mutsuki, either.   

The torps are different at least. Muts torps are faster, longer range and hit harder. Minekaze reload faster, are in 3 launchers and have a shorter detection range. The Minekaze will get more shots so more chances of a hit and 3 launchers gives better flexibility to cover more possible target maneuvers or hold a launcher in reserve. The faster reload means you aren't "naked" as long after firing all your torps. That extra time to reload can seem an eternity when you unexpectedly find yourself in a knifefight or a yolo charge. I have often surprised myself in brawls by surviving long enough to have my torps reload so I can go for that "Flesh Wound" ribbon. The shorter detection range means the target has less time to react and the torps are (a little) less likely to be spotted by others on the way to the target.

Edited by Sabot_100

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Mikekaze like Isokaze, exerts extremely low pressure with their lips. But Haratsuyu and Shiratsuyu are really good boats , even if played as mostly torp boats as I did. Akisuzi(sp?), I don't know about yet as I have not tried that one true gunboat IJN DD yet.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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19 hours ago, Strachwitz666 said:

Akizuki, I don't know about yet as I have not tried that one true gunboat IJN DD yet.

It gives slow a whole new meaning. I lost a game once because I couldn't catch a BB in a stern chase before he capped our zone. Other than that, it's like a tiny Atlanta and that drives people nuts. It's a lot like the Atlanta really - when it works it's a hoot, when it doesn't it goes   >>boom<<

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There is Nothing like the ISHOKAZIE, nothing. I still have her in my port, she is the fun torp boat in the game hands down. You are great of you used guns HOWEVER, you are god if you dont touch them at all. HF in her, she is a blast to play...

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:05 PM, Navalpride33 said:

There is Nothing like the ISHOKAZIE, nothing. I still have her in my port, she is the fun torp boat in the game hands down. You are great of you used guns HOWEVER, you are god if you dont touch them at all. HF in her, she is a blast to play...

Oh, yeah.  Guns are definitely situational.  LOL.  I usually only use them in a few situations:

  • From smoke.
  • Popping off a salvo at the last second before I disappear behind an island.
  • Target almost dead, one or two salvos would finish it, and no other enemies in a good position to pop me back.
  • Target (BB) highly distracted and focusing on my team mates, and just fired his main guns, which are currently facing the opposite direction from my ship.  This was the scenario where I got 10k damage on a single target with just guns.  I couldn't torp him, because there was an island in the way.

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My personal record of 7 kills was in Isokaze for a long time. It’s a helluva good boat. I know that the Clemson is very popular for seal clubbing, but someone has to teach new BB players not to sail in a straight line don’t they?  Sailing around for most of a match without getting spotted while Red ships occasionally go BOOM is big fun.  I don’t do it very often because it really is just cruel.

Fujin now holds my record at 9 kills. It was a T4-5 match and the heal from Yamamoto at #5 made the rest possible.

Muttsucky still is a terrible boat. 3x2 is so much better than 2x3 in terms of flexible torp spreads. And those guns... why even put them on the ship?  All they do is dramatically increase your detection and annoy people enough to focus you down. 

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Well, I went ahead and finished the grind to Minekaze the other night.  I've only played a couple of games, but it shows promise.  I have a 7 point commander at the moment, which means concealment range of 6.  I didn't think it would be a big deal, because I've got a Fletcher (5.8), a Gearing (5.9), and a Z52 (6.1).  But they have torps that are faster and have longer range, so they have more padding to turn and run without being detected after launching (except, of course, when they are lit up by radar).  Oh, well, it will be the same as when I moved my commander up from Akatsuki and had to start grinding a new one.  After learning how to play with 7.2 km detection on Akatsuki, the otherwise sucky 6.4 km you get with CE seems like a cloaking device.

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On 4/11/2018 at 12:05 PM, Navalpride33 said:

There is Nothing like the ISHOKAZIE, nothing. I still have her in my port, she is the fun torp boat in the game hands down. You are great of you used guns HOWEVER, you are god if you dont touch them at all. HF in her, she is a blast to play...

Really, Kagero, is the monster Japanese DD.  Might be a little monster but that just makes it a badder monster because it is harder to see.

Getting uptier to T10 , just means more points for sinking "targets", which is usually any BB on the other side. 

The shima concealment is going to hurt kagero and Yugumo, a fair bit. But I think that might be needed as it is supposed to be a "better" boat than either and right now, I don't see that.

On the flip side, I don't see me going back to play Iso anytime, as IMO it would be double unfair. One , for having a 10+ pt. captain, and Two, Japanese DD's Kag and Yugo are so easy to me now, I think I would be a worse terror  than I am now driving around at T8-10 , if I were to go down to T4-5 splatting seals. I did not do as well at ISO back when I was playing her at T4  but since then I am sure that was because I simply did not know how to run IJN DD's of either line  back when I was playing torp side DD's of T4/5 as i do now. The gunboat line I never had problems with, even though I consider them torp boats as well. I was wrecking clubbers even without a 10pt captain.. I relished those battles , as it was nice to bash such "unsportsmanlike" behavior.  They deserve it and that also saying agin works against me going back.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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3 hours ago, Strachwitz666 said:

The shima concealment is going to hurt kagero and Yugumo, a fair bit. But I think that might be needed as it is supposed to be a "better" boat than either and right now, I don't see that.

 

I only have four games in the Shima, but my experience in the Kag and Yug indicate that not many use a full concealment build.  I am seldom outspotted in the Kag or Yug, and in the four games in the Shima, I have not been outspotted.   Even in my CA's at 8, 9, and 10, I run into more players that do not have Concealment Module than do.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Pulver_2016 said:

 

I only have four games in the Shima, but my experience in the Kag and Yug indicate that not many use a full concealment build.  I am seldom outspotted in the Kag or Yug, and in the four games in the Shima, I have not been outspotted.   Even in my CA's at 8, 9, and 10, I run into more players that do not have Concealment Module than do.

Thats weird, in my 700+ battles in shima, I only seen few non vmf dds without concealment module or skill.

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5 minutes ago, Vaitmana said:

Thats weird, in my 700+ battles in shima, I only seen few non vmf dds without concealment module or skill.

I only know that when in the Kag and Yug, I have a higher concealment rating than other Kags or Yugs by usually 3 or 4 rating points IIRC. Even in the four games with the Shima, I haven't been outspotted, but it was close.

Sometimes, it may be Camo for one rating  point. If I am out of camo, I will always pay for one. It is the cheaper Type 1, but if I can stay undetected, dispersion is moot. 

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On 4/12/2018 at 3:31 PM, zubalkabir said:

Oh, yeah.  Guns are definitely situational.  LOL.  I usually only use them in a few situations:

  • From smoke.
  • Popping off a salvo at the last second before I disappear behind an island.
  • Target almost dead, one or two salvos would finish it, and no other enemies in a good position to pop me back.
  • Target (BB) highly distracted and focusing on my team mates, and just fired his main guns, which are currently facing the opposite direction from my ship.  This was the scenario where I got 10k damage on a single target with just guns.  I couldn't torp him, because there was an island in the way.

You forgot a very important one that you probably haven't realized/utilized yet.  The purposeful reveal. Done correctly in the right situation, it can cause more damage than the guns themselves could ever do.  

Back to topic:

Isokaze > Mini all the way.   I'll faildiv my iso to t5 any day also.   .1 better conceal, and better torp arcs on the middle launcher.   My 19pt yamamoto is trained on iso. 

 

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If you want a Mini like it once was get a Kamikaze R or Fujin in the premium shop. Otherwise,  Izokase.

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21 hours ago, Comrade_Nemo said:

If you want a Mini like it once was get a Kamikaze R or Fujin in the premium shop

Sorry, WG stopped selling them a while ago. Probably won't be bringing them back either (except in crates??). Means if you see one in the future, it is probably being driven by an experienced DD captain.

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