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Gneisenau013

Tactical Tip Tuesday - Cruiser Support

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Cruiser captain, what is your strategy?

It's Tuesday, your cruiser sails with its fleet and a surface engagement is imminent. You follow about 5km behind your lead destroyer when you are detected by the enemy fleet.

What is your next move? What plan or course of action will you take and how will you support your teammates?

There is strength in numbers and recognizing that is essential for obtaining success and victory.

#anchorsaweigh

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2 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

image.png

Cruiser captain, what are your strategy?

It's Tuesday, your cruiser sails with its fleet and a surface engagement is imminent. You follow about 5km behind your lead destroyer when you are detected by the enemy fleet.

What is your next move? What plan or course of action will you take and how will you support your teammates?

There is strength in numbers and recognizing that is essential for obtaining success and victory.

#anchorsaweigh

Bail, because if you're in the cap with your lead destroyer right when the match begins...you're begging for insta-deletion. 

The DD will still be dark for sure, but you'll be spotted...and before long the "BRAZZERS" logo appears at the bottom when 5 ships target you. 

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Find the nearest island, and fast.

Seriously, everyone shoots at the first thing spotted. When every battleship fires at you, there's a good chance you're going to lose half your HP before you're even in range. I once was in my Balty, me and a DD picked the side the ENTIRE enemy time went for (except the DD and BB who managed to hold up our entire team on the other side). I was making their DD's life miserable, and then noticed my PT indicator was pegged at 9. Even if I hadn't hit an island, I would have died.

The key to following the DD in, is making sure the entire enemy team can't shoot you. Watch your approach angles carefully, and be able to turn a run behind an island to disengage if you have to. That way, they have to expose themselves to you and your team to shoot you. And most BBs don't like to go charging into a turning cap with a smokescreen...

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If you're in that position, you're going to be the one who needs support. If you're lucky, the destroyer will smoke and you might be able to turn, but in a lot of cases, you're toast because you put yourself in that terrible position. The time to make the correct play was 30 seconds prior.

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In that scenario:

- If near island cover, make for it while minimizing angle to red team (to avoid eating citadel hits)
- If no nearby cover, request smoke from DD and make for his location, asking the ship's chaplain to say a special prayer that the DD is willing to smoke for you
     - Try to angle such that you offer the narrowest profile to incoming shells and/or torpedoes
     - Throw it into reverse in time to stop in the smoke
     - Be aware of your detection range firing from smoke
     - If DD smoked, say silent prayer that he will then move out of smoke to spot for you
- Whether heading for cover or smoke, look for red DDs to blow out of the water before being focus-fired into oblivion by the entire red team

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That's usually when I start attracting more than 3 different ships fire, though it depends on how much of the enemy fleet is ahead of me.

My plan if it's the majority: RUN. There's a massive can o' whup-a$$ with my name on it up ahead, and I have no interest in opening it.

If it's less than half, I will dig in and engage targets of oportunity(usually other Cruisers or destroyers that I see), but also try to keep my distance. (I usually run USN CL/CA, and getting close is suicide by torpedo). So long as I have backup behind me, I fight. If I'm alone for the most part, I back off and support my tanky ally in that flank.

Though I have never reall used my CL/CA is such a fashion anyway. I usually hide behind my BB and attempt to lob shells at other BB when they're not looking, or I try to screen for enemy DD. I usually find the "RUSH B CYKA" battle strategy with Cruisers is a great way to do 10k damage and die. 

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If you've pre-arranged to have the DD smoke do it.

If you have terrain, use it.

If you don't have anything and especially if you don't have radar you need to turn out and get as much turning done as possible before the red team hopefully get their guns traversed on you.

If you're a smoke cruiser you can consider slowing and smoking if you're bow on, but if you're full ahead it's dangerous.

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Yolo of course!

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Find a sneaky position to take advantage of spotted targets from your DD. Prioritize enemy DDs to keep your team mates alive. Lastly, hope enemy BBs are paying no attention to you.

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21 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

If you're in that position, you're going to be the one who needs support. If you're lucky, the destroyer will smoke and you might be able to turn, but in a lot of cases, you're toast because you put yourself in that terrible position. The time to make the correct play was 30 seconds prior.

This, start turning out before hand, be ready to kite back / support your capping DD.

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Option 1 - Look for a very nearby island that I can hide behind. If possible, find a way to hide behind the island but still provide support across the cap for my DD's.

Option 2 - Turn tail, wiggle and run until I'm not lit anymore.

 

That's it. You're the only ship spotted and you're not able to take a hit to save your life. There are no other alternatives. Even popping smoke in a CL isn't going to help you much because people have gotten too good at firing into smoke, especially with spotter planes.

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I look at this a different way. If I am in my Radar Mino or New Orleans...I hit my radar and decimate the DD spotting me as I have a 2 on 1 advantage...the DD is smoking me into the cap because he is a division mate.  It's a massive win as I call for fire on the now prioritized DD target.

There is a difference between detected and targeted.  

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I'd never follow just 5km behind. I'd take my concealment, subtract the lead DDs concealment, and that is my minimum distance from the DD. Basically, that DD should be able to spot every ship that could pose a threat ... before they become a threat to me.

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Questions:

1) Which cruiser am I in?

2) What is the matchmaking?

3) What is the composition of the enemy fleet?

4) What heavy support do I have immediately behind? What is to my flanks?

5) Which map and which cap (if any)?

6) Am I merely detected, or am I actually targeted?

All of these things will determine my actions. For all I know, I am at Tier 3, detected by a lone destroyer running speed-boost, too far ahead of his camping capital ships for them to pose any significant threat to me. On the other hand, if I am way in up to my neck and spotted by a stealthy hydro or radar destroyer at Tier 10, then for all I know I've just been lit up for a half dozen Alsaces or Yamatos to fire at, in which case please bring my brown trousers.

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Cruisers should adopt a slightly bolder play style. No more island humping, or bow on reversing. With camo ranges around 10km or less. A cruiser can comfortably escorting friendly DDs to a forward position, let loose few salvos, then turn away to re-stealth.

The idea is simply, and a very fundamental aspect of the game mechanics, to exploit camo values and reduce shell fly time.

It is a more active play style. A cruiser is constantly turning in and out of combat, think of Battle of Tsushima and how the IJN fleet going round robin with the Russian ships. Rotating out the ships being focus, then back in again once enemy loses sighting. 

It's a far more enjoyable and more team orientated play style, maximizing the maneuverability as well as quick firing guns of the cruisers to do damage to the targets that matters (no more farming useless fire damage on back line camping BBs).  A cruiser on the move is also very dangerous and have a detrimental mental effect on enemy ships, especially enemy DDs. They can no longer avoid radar by avoiding a stationary cruiser and its radar bubble, but have to constantly play defensively to avoid surprised by a cruiser 10 km away.

 

Results speak for themselves (stock baltimore grinding to des moines over the last week. Imagine what you can do with fully researched ships and with flags up the bumhole):

 

image.thumb.png.01495b80823686c305012e992373bfb2.png

image.thumb.png.e9a79ad25298432f6512c0597a2641b2.png

 

My twitch channel probably still have the baltimore grind recordings.

Edited by NeutralState

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Depending on the Cruiser, if your spotted at 5 km behind the DD, then the DD has been spotted as well.

And what happens next greatly depends on what the DD does and whether or not the REDS target you.

Some preventative items can be done.

  1. Plan your escape route ahead of time
  2. Come in on a angle, make turning to retreat quicker or turning into incoming fire by narrowing your profile
  3. Approach using an island to negate possible threats

If all else fails, as Worf would say, 'Today is good day to die, RAMMING SPEED!'

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I would never follow that close behind a DD. You're literally setting yourself up to the the first one dead in the match.

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29 minutes ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

I would never follow that close behind a DD. You're literally setting yourself up to the the first one dead in the match.

Image result for just do it

 

Do it for the team work. An experienced player such as yourself surely can time the camo range just right.

Edited by NeutralState

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5 hours ago, Gneisenau013 said:

You follow about 5km behind your lead destroyer when you are detected by the enemy fleet.

you should position yourself as close to your DD as possible WITHOUT allowing yourself to be spotted first

if you are a 12.2km hind trailing a 5.8km fletcher, make sure you are at least 12.2-5.8=6.4km behind him so he will be spotted first, and then you

that way you will have time to get yourself into proper position so you can fire off a few rounds to enemy destroyer, and leave the situation ALIVE

spotted with your head towards the enemy when you are at full speed is the easiest way for enemy to get a first blood off you(in a cruiser)

****************************************

unless we are talking exceptions like RN CL or kutu, in that case just smoke up and get ready to shoot at enemy DDs

Edited by jason199506
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That is an extremely vague set of circumstances and cruisers are very diverse. What you will do in a Hindenburg is extremely different than what you would do in a Minotaur and that is extremely different than an Omaha, which is extremely different than an Atago.... you getting my point? Are you top tier, are you bottom tier? what is the map like? Are there lots of DD's? Are there lot's of BB's? Are you on a flank or in the middle? What tier is this? 5km is miniscule in t10, but not at t2....

Like others have mentioned, if this is open water and you are allowing yourself to be spotted first, you messed up.

 

This has got to be one of the most vague, ambiguous and broad questions I have seen asked.

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There's really not enough information to make a good decision because so much depends on factors that aren't listed.  I will however make a few assumptions and go from there. 

If I'm 5 km behind my destroyer, I'm not out in the open ocean waiting to get shot.  I've either picked out my cover and am heading for it or I'm already there.  I will have selected a point where I'm at least partially covered so that the red ships can't focus fire me but also in a position where I can support the dd with gunfire, particularly against any red dd operating in the cap.  

From that point on, what I do is going to be determined by what the dd finds.  If he finds that the only opposition is a dd or two, then I'll maneuver to bring as much of my firepower as I can to bear on the red dd's and help to clear them out of the cap.  If he finds a modest force then a lot depends on whether I have any of my allied green ships interested in supporting me or better yet, a battleship or two willing to crash the cap.  

If I have no support I'll try to stay in cover and support the dd in the cap while keeping my ship as well angled as possible against any red cruisers that may be operating around the cap and be actively looking for an escape route if I feel I might need it.  If I have  heavy support I'll act more like I would if the opposition is light and maneuver to best engage the enemy ships all the while being watchful to make sure an enemy bb doesn't suddenly appear and delete me. 

If the opposition is heavy but I have heavy support, I'll stay in cover and engage the red ships with whatever guns will bear but without giving any heavy red ships a look at my broadside if it can all be avoided.  If the support is meager or non-existent, I'll do my best to get the heck out of Dodge and see if there are any other caps I can support without getting instantly deleted. This may consist of finding some cover where I can turn around without exposing myself too much, or hitting the reverse button and giving the red bb's as small a target as possible while trying to back out of trouble. 

That's all generalized of course and the approach will vary somewhat depending on which cruiser I'm in.  Some cruisers are so fragile that you have to fight them differently or they have special attributes like smoke generation which allow them to be effective in situations other cruisers would find highly dangerous.  Sometimes cruisers mounting torpedoes can be effective in somewhat different roles depending on the range of those torpedoes as well as the peculiarities of the ships involved.  The game situation can also influence how my cruiser needs to be played so that is a factor as well.  

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14 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

This has got to be one of the most vague, ambiguous and broad questions I have seen asked.

Ok, what would you do if the thing isn't working and the thingee near it is way too blue?  

 

Edited by BB3_Oregon_Steel

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Depends on my nation. I would have already been close to island cover because I never approach a cap without it.

US: I go to a island while keeping well angled.

Russian: Same as US, but with more elegance and speed. Hopefully both have radar to be handy.

German: I bee-line to cover. My sides are better protected.

British: I smoke where I am at and dare them to blind fire on me. while still, sometimes angling, sometimes not.

French: I turn and run like the wet juicy.... sausage? I am.

Japanese: Pretty much like french, but I'm not a sausage this time.

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4 hours ago, Gneisenau013 said:

image.png

Cruiser captain, what is your strategy?

It's Tuesday, your cruiser sails with its fleet and a surface engagement is imminent. You follow about 5km behind your lead destroyer when you are detected by the enemy fleet.

What is your next move? What plan or course of action will you take and how will you support your teammates?

There is strength in numbers and recognizing that is essential for obtaining success and victory.

#anchorsaweigh

You Drive your Ship I will Drive mine. I am responsible for my Ship / crew. I don't Lemming with anyone. I will support my team with my Ship to the best ability I can see. Making decisions as to when and where I am most needed. 

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