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Why bring the Grozovoi over any other tier 10 dd?

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Is there anything the Grozovoi does better than any other destroyer?  Sure, the AA is fantastic- but if that is the only redeeming quality of this boat why bring it?  

Guns?  Khaba guns are better- Khaba has better armor and speed and maneuverability...

Anti Air?  Gearing AA is almost as good- and the Gearing has much better conceal and torps...

Torps?  Lawl.  Grozovoi torps are not terrible, but arguably the worst for tier 10 dd's.  Long reload times compared to the z52, short range compared to the Gearing, and Shimi...  well Shimi torps are just scary.

The Grozovoi looks cool, has good gun arcs, but otherwise it just lacks.  I can't think of a good reason to bring this boat over any other boat in any situation. 

What am I missing?  Because I really think the guns could make this a decent choice, but with it's detectability it just can't hold a point without being outclassed by boats with better detectability.  And when a Gearing spots you at 6 km + and can move in that close without being spotted you are at a disadvantage.  The Grozovoi wants to shoot you at mid range- but can't target things with better conceal...

TL:DR

Grozovoi needs some improvements!!!  Grozovoi needs some reason to pick it over other dd's.

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She can have a rather good rate of fire for her tier in combination with her AA- She can function well as a support ship ala Akizuki.

That being said, I generally agree that she's not necessarily the best pick.

Edited by Kingfishercritic
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I don't have the Grozovoi yet, but I have the Tashkent (Tier 9 gunboat line) and the Ognevoi (Tier 8 hybrid line).

The gunboat line - Trashcan and Khaba have really bad stealth and I think most people (myself included)  take the heal over the smoke.  So these play more like, smaller, faster Cruisers than DD's.

The "Hybrid" line (I made that up, not sure what they call it) has great guns, shell speed (950m/s vs. 792m/s on Gearing/Yeuyang, 830m/sec on Z-52), damage, fire starting, etc....stealth that's close to others: - 7.62 for Grozovoi, 7.74 for Z-52, 7.56 for Gearing, 7.42 for Yeuyang and 7.56 for Shima (supposed to be getting buffed soon), so it's not far off on stealth if you spec that way.

13.2km gun range if you take AFT on your Commander, 20,900 hit points stock - more than any other Tier 10 DD except Khaba. 39.5 knots stock speed, 2nd only to Khaba again.  Khaba has 6km torps, Groz 10km.

So to sum it up, you get great guns with best usable range, decent torps, speed & stealth and great hit points and AA.  Just my thoughts.

Edited by digitaljustice

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I have the Grozovoi but I've only played it once. Managed to win that game despite forgetting to put any ship modules on her. The ship seems lackluster. I don't see them often and when I do they don't leave an impression. Besides with 19p commanders in my Gearing, YueYang, Shima and a 18p Khaba I've got a lot of options should I play T10 Destroyers. 

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Have all the tier 10 DDs, and can’t quite figure out how to use the Groz effectively.  Looking at two week stats, Groz has lowest damage output as well  only being played a third as much as the next lowest played tier 10 DD.   Does not seem to do anything well enough to justify taking it out very often vs my other tier 10s.  Detection is just bad enough that other non Russian DDs seem to always get the jump on you.  I really want to like the Groz, but usually disappointed when I take it out.

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She is the not the greatest but not the worst DD in essentially every category.   So it plays incredibly balanced.

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You shouldn't compare a ship to it's Counterpart with selected Features, otherwise Jack-of-All-Trades will seem like the worst ships in the game.

Now Grozovoi for example.

Grozovoi has much better AA and much better Torps, and a better rudder compared to Khabarovsk, but she has less main battery firepower, Speed and survivability.

Against Z-52 Grozovoi tops with AA, speed and gun reliability, also harder hitting Torps. Z-52 has faster Torpedo reload, Hydro and longer gun range.

Against Shima the disadvantages and Advantages of both are obvious.

Against Gearing the Grozovoi wins with gunpower and Speed, the Gearing has Concealment and Torpedoes.

And this is what Grozovoi is, she has a bit of everything and is a Hybrid.

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With SE the Grozovoi runs around with 24,400 HP. That and a 3.5 second gun reload (w/battery mod 3) with 950m/s shell velocity makes her pretty tough against most DDs in or around a cap, though I try to keep her away from short-range situations due to relatively poor handling. Her AA is great for knocking spotter planes out of the sky, making the ship harder for the other team to track her movements when behind islands, etc. And the 10 km torpedoes, while not extraordinary, work well for catching things in smoke or area denial. 

I only have 11 games in the ship, and have generally played it like a very stealthy cruiser (6 km detection range w/CE) able to contest caps in some cases. Though my average damage so far is a bit low, I have had success as a support ship and/or cap-contester at need, winning 9 of those 11 games. Certainly I did not carry the games. But I feel that I did things to help the team win. I consider Grozovoi a solid all-around ship.

Respects,

Am

Edited by Amracil
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In Short.. She plays differently than the other DD's. She is killer support and can spot the larger vessels for your Fleet. She is a Team boat.. not much for Solo warrior.

 

IMO

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1 hour ago, SyndicatedINC said:

She is the not the greatest but not the worst DD in essentially every category.   So it plays incredibly balanced.

This sums it up nicely.  Grozovoi is well balanced, but requires a different playstyle than her peers.  She's best in a support role, but don't let that fool you, she has a bite.

B

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Grozovoi definitely needs some help. I'd like to see it get 12km torps and/or a shorter reload. And longer gun range. 

If you try to build as a gunboat, you get BB AP Balans'd for daring to open fire. If you build as a torp boat, you have to wait 5 years for your crappy, low damage torps to reload... And you get out spotted by every other DD that's not pretending to be a cruiser /Z52. If you try to build as an AA boat... Lol what are CVs? 

The problem with Grozovoi is that it can't do anything particularly well. Gearing is good at everything that's not long range shooting. Z52 is good at contesting caps and spamming torps. Shima is good at spamming skill walls and massive alpha. Khabarovsk is most glorious cruiser without citadel. Yo-yo is good at being a more annoying Gearing. It needs a niche that's not AA, especially considering its AA got nerfed massively during testing and CVs only exist when you get tired of not seeing them and swap DFAA for engine boost. 

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In a 1v1 duel with any other dd (except the Khaba) the Grozovoi is outspotted.  The Grozovoi's big advantage is medium range gunfire (say 7km-10km), but my biggest concern is that since she can't spot most of her rivals until 5.9km, the Grozovoi is well within what is comfortable to them (Gearing/YueYang are both best at 6km and shorter).  This means the engagement with other dd's will most likely be too close for Grozovoi to take advantage of her longer range guns and is in the kill zone of the short range guns of the Gearing.  

For the Grozovoi to be effective it's going to have to increase the range to target out of the American's comfort zone so they start having rainbow arcs.  While also hoping that the Gearing/Shimi/whatever keeps firing at them and staying spotted.  Otherwise the Grozovoi is going to have to turn around and charge back at the target, keeping the target in 5.9km...

I just don't see how the Grozovoi can do well against other dd's...  

And verses CL and BB's- well she spams damage well, but I just think if that is your main thing you probably would be happier in a Khaba.

Edited by Torpin

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2 hours ago, SyndicatedINC said:

She is the not the greatest but not the worst DD in essentially every category.   So it plays incredibly balanced.

I'm not sure that she that well balanced.  She seems somewhat weak all around.  Mind you, I actually do enjoy playing her from time to time because she is an interesting hybrid.  But she's nowhere close to being a good torp boat, because her torps take too long to load or they're too weak for their load time.  And because the Groz is a rather large DD with a lot of freeboard (sitting fairly high in the water), she's not a difficult target.  And the Groz just doesn't have the speed to be a  good long range sniping DD.  Not fast enough and too easy to hit.  For the most part, the Groz can't afford to be the constantly shooting sniping gunboat for any length of time.  She seems to do better as a smoke shooter, whereas the Khab seems better suited to being a run and gun gunboat.  The Groz isn't bad in shorter range engagements doing counter DD work because of her fine guns and good concealment.

Personally, I think that what the Grozovoi needs is a buff to her torpedoes, either improving her torp reload time while keep the damage as is, or increasing the torps' damage output while keeping the reload rate as is.  I think that this could go a long ways towards making the Groz a more worthy hybrid DD compared to others in that category.

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If you division with a CV player alot Groz is a very nice boat to bring with otherwise for solo as stated any other probably better

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14 minutes ago, Torpin said:

In a 1v1 duel with any other dd (except the Khaba) the Grozovoi is outspotted.  The Grozovoi's big advantage is medium range gunfire (say 7km-10km), but my biggest concern is that since she can't spot most of her rivals until 5.9km, the are well within what is comfortable to them (Gearing/YueYang are both best at 6km and shorter).  This means the engagement with other dd's will most likely be too close for Grozovoi to take advantage of her longer range guns in the kill zone of the short range guns of the Gearing.  

For the Grozovoi to be effective it's going to have to increase the range to target out of the American's comfort zone so they start having rainbow arcs.  While also hoping that the Gearing/Shimi/whatever keeps firing at them and staying spotted.  Otherwise the Grozovoi is going to have to turn around and charge back at the target, keeping the target in 5.9km...

I just don't see how the Grozovoi can do well against other dd's...  

And verses CL and BB's- well she spams damage well, but I just think if that is your main thing you probably would be happier in a Khaba.

The Groz does outspot the Z-52 as well,  -  7.62km for Grozovoi, 7.74km for Z-52 stock

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I'm a self-diagnosed Soviet DD fanboy and even I don't really care about Grozovoi. The range being arbitrarily lower than the rest of the line (even compared to the few other "hybrid" VMF DDs) is always going to hold it back, imo.

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1 hour ago, digitaljustice said:

The Groz does outspot the Z-52 as well,  -  7.62km for Grozovoi, 7.74km for Z-52 stock

But it's such a small window that it doesn't make that much of a difference. Z-52 has that German AP as well...

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It depends how you look at it.

 

She does well as a solo ship because she's a hybrid. She also divs well because she's a hybrid. Her torps, although they have a long reload, are actually quite decent. Not sure where you got "arguably the worst".

Her guns are excellent, as is her AA. You can shred other DDs with her guns. She is more maneuverable than the Khaba and has much better concealment.

You can look at the Groz as not being the best at anything, or doing everything quite well.

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As others pointed, while Grozovoi isnt the best att anything (maybe AA), but she is not the worst at anything either. Most of Grozovoi stats are average, would be something like a Jack of all Trades. So while you might not be the best DD at a "X" situation, you still have a decent asnwer to deal wih that. 

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Grozovoi has the amazingly accurate at range guns like all RU DDs, with high fire chance. Grozovoi also has the best AA of tier 10 DDs. Her concealment is worse than Gearing's, but better than Z-52. And while she's not Khab fast, at 39.5 before speed flags, she's still very fast compared to the others.

She's a hybrid with a bit more focus on guns than torpedoes. And unlike Khab, she has the stealth to push into caps AND the gun accuracy and speed to dictate engagements. Are there other ships that are better at some of the things that she does? Aside from AA, of course!. But she's certainly more adaptable than many of those ships. And her players stats in the last couple of weeks are very middle of the road too.

Only thing that truly puzzles me is that her HE alpha is 1800 ... compared to the 1900 on *every other russian destroyer*.

Also, why is Udaloi the tier 9 in that line? It's much closer to being a Khab than a Grozovoi. Doesn't really teach you how to play the next ship in the line.

I'm almost tempted to try and push towards her. I have Kiev for the Khab line ... but honestly, I don't play DDs to use them as light cruisers, so just not interested there. But once that CV rework goes through and more players play carriers, stronger AA destroyers might become highly prized.

Edited by KaptainKaybe
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On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:11 PM, SireneRacker said:

You shouldn't compare a ship to it's Counterpart with selected Features, otherwise Jack-of-All-Trades will seem like the worst ships in the game.

Now Grozovoi for example.

Grozovoi has much better AA and much better Torps, and a better rudder compared to Khabarovsk, but she has less main battery firepower, Speed and survivability.

Against Z-52 Grozovoi tops with AA, speed and gun reliability, also harder hitting Torps. Z-52 has faster Torpedo reload, Hydro and longer gun range.

Against Shima the disadvantages and Advantages of both are obvious.

Against Gearing the Grozovoi wins with gunpower and Speed, the Gearing has Concealment and Torpedoes.

And this is what Grozovoi is, she has a bit of everything and is a Hybrid.

Something to consider for the Grozovoi vs the Z-52.  Yes, the Z has a faster torp reload.  However, that's primarily because the Z-52 has two 4-torp launchers, whereas the Grozovoi has two FIVE-torp launchers.  If you go all in for torp reload on the Groz, you can get her reload down to 97 seconds from 129 seconds.  Of course, that does require you to take the slot #6 torp upgrade module instead of the MBM3 upgrade.  But if you really want to get the most out of your torps in a Groz, then maybe it's worth it.

It's also worth noting that the Groz's AP while not Z-52 good (at 3k damage), is better than any other nation's DD AP (at 2.6k damage).

So, overall, looking at the numbers, the Grozovoi seems to be quite similar to the Z-52, with the exception that the Z can reload torps faster, but has one less torp per launcher.  And the Groz has outstanding AA.

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If I were to run Groz in Ranked I would likely try to escort a Shimakaze or other very stealthy DD.  If paired up with radar I would set up in an ambush position to blast DDs that are attempting to cap by smoking up in a safe position and letting radar spot the DDs for me.  With how glitchy rendering is Groz and Gearing have negligible differences in concealment.  Worst case scenario when I am the only DD in the game/on a cap I'm going to play her like a Gearing.  Ideally near cover but still able to spot for the team, or in a ready to kite position.  She plays very much like an Akizuki, where torps need to be a very real concern.  Fortunately shes not nearly as slow as Akizuki, and that can give you a few extra seconds to be able to dodge.

SI and maybe Vig would be good skills to have to mitigate the burst damage and torps that she loves to eat.

For me, she's all about the guns.  Many of the skills mesh well with her AA  like BFT and AFT, though I'm not sure I'd run AFT in ranked.  Torps are more of a [edited] you go away tool for me in her.

 

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On 4/10/2018 at 11:23 AM, Torpin said:

Is there anything the Grozovoi does better than any other destroyer?  Sure, the AA is fantastic- but if that is the only redeeming quality of this boat why bring it?  

Guns?  Khaba guns are better- Khaba has better armor and speed and maneuverability...

Anti Air?  Gearing AA is almost as good- and the Gearing has much better conceal and torps...

Torps?  Lawl.  Grozovoi torps are not terrible, but arguably the worst for tier 10 dd's.  Long reload times compared to the z52, short range compared to the Gearing, and Shimi...  well Shimi torps are just scary.

The Grozovoi looks cool, has good gun arcs, but otherwise it just lacks.  I can't think of a good reason to bring this boat over any other boat in any situation. 

What am I missing?  Because I really think the guns could make this a decent choice, but with it's detectability it just can't hold a point without being outclassed by boats with better detectability.  And when a Gearing spots you at 6 km + and can move in that close without being spotted you are at a disadvantage.  The Grozovoi wants to shoot you at mid range- but can't target things with better conceal...

TL:DR

Grozovoi needs some improvements!!!  Grozovoi needs some reason to pick it over other dd's.

Using any  ship it's all personal preference  play what you like

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