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SerialSniper15

T7 CV sniping is breaking the game

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I recently got the Ranger at T7 and the game has just about become unplayable.  If you're playing another Ranger it's just good old-fashioned CV play.  But if I'm playing against a Kaga or Saipan, they just CV snipe one game after another.  It's not even fun to play at this point.  I recognize it's a legitimate strategy to take out the enemy CV but that's ALL they do, even avoiding isolated BBs.  The broken factor is that there is no punishment if they fail.  The last game I played I leveled TWO FULL WAVES of fighters, bombers, and torps when they tried sniping and they STILL came back a third time in the late game with full squadrons.  Seriously?  Is this all it's come to?  I recognize that US fighters are better so a change of tactics is in order but this has gotten ridiculous.

Simple solution: give US CVs (or maybe all CVs) T7 and up AA defensive fire.  If nothing else, it will be a deterrent and make sloppy players learn real tactics.

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Saipan is cancer

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Well tbh cvs that fail a snipe have wasted a lot of planes and time. I always assume that if I haven't seen enemy squadrons for a while that a snipe is inbound and move to protect my ship. I'll also alert aa heavy ships nearby to head close enough to cover me if that option is available. For instance of the enemy had to c9me after me 3 times in a match to snipe me. They have wasted most of the match trying to sink one ship. Meanwhile my strike aircraft have hit their teammates more often with more sorties so even if I do die to the third attempt, the match is probably already decided.

Edited by RipNuN2
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And here I thought this thread was going to be about the Tier 7 CV and Two Tier 8 AA ships like a Kut and Kidd.

Edited by Kongo_Pride

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31 minutes ago, gmrbull said:

Saipan is All carriers are cancer

Let me fix that for you.

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I think U.S. carriers could use a short-burst, high multiplier DFAA. Maybe 5 seconds and +500% DPS or something. It might provide a better defense against that kind of attack.

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When Kagaing I will snipe Saipans if an opportunity arises. Generally I will only snipe a Ranger if their cv is a) not moving, b) I have zero excuse toward my own team mates for not taking the opportunity.

But consequently, I have sniped many a Ranger, possibly because poor Ranger has a disproportionate number of bad captains who fail to take the elementary step at the start of battle, GET MOVING!

(I do apologise to the Ranger captain after a successful snipe, but laugh and grin when I succeed vs a Kaga or Saipan.)

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59 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Well tbh cvs that fail a snipe have wasted a lot of planes and time. I always assume that if I haven't seen enemy squadrons for a while that a snipe is inbound and move to protect my ship. I'll also alert aa heavy ships nearby to head close enough to cover me if that option is available. For instance of the enemy had to c9me after me 3 times in a match to snipe me. They have wasted most of the match trying to sink one ship. Meanwhile my strike aircraft have hit their teammates more often with more sorties so even if I do die to the third attempt, the match is probably already decided.

pretty much hit the nail on the head with that answer and it works on any tier and  if your in a US CV you know you have the longer time to launch planes, so if i get to the middle and start spotting and planing to drop a strike on a ship and theres no signs off there planes i start loooking at the edges for a CV snipe and i allways send my fighters the same way my CV is moving and say a squad off DB to the other side and most times you can catch them before they even get close. sometimes there slower in planning how to atk,  grouping up there planes or waiting to go in for a drop and at somepoint you see them and know there not going for a snipe.

to me any one that tries a CV snipe from tier 7 and up is just wasting time and planes, even more when you get to tier 8 and ill msg the CV why did they try for a snipe when they know i have DEFAA and they will lose there squads, that time wasted and planes lost could off been used to do something better with them

 

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1 hour ago, SerialSniper15 said:

The broken factor is that there is no punishment if they fail

there is though if all there trying to do is snipe you and each time there losing there squads doing it at somepoint there going to be out off planes while you still have yours and all they can do is sit there and watch, get yelled at by teamates while your off dmg there ships and spotting there DD etc

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You have to work on your CV gameplay if you are getting successfully sniped all the time in Ranger.

Yes, yes I know it's a tall order, seeing that the OP premiums are almost always packing a 19pt captain with an experienced player behind the wheel, but you will just have to learn to see the snipe coming and counter it with your fighters and smart positioning

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5 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

Yes, yes I know it's a tall order, seeing that the OP premiums are almost always packing a 19pt captain with an experienced player behind the wheel,

and then you get the ones that have no idea what there doing and just makes it to easy, i think the worst i came across was someone with a enterprise and grouped all his squads into 1 group didnt take long to get rid off them with strafe worst part is they kept trying to do it each time and each time they lost all there squads

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43 minutes ago, ausanimal said:

there is though if all there trying to do is snipe you and each time there losing there squads doing it at somepoint there going to be out off planes while you still have yours and all they can do is sit there and watch, get yelled at by teamates while your off dmg there ships and spotting there DD etc

True, but if like in my last case they still succeed on the third wave, they're still free to roam the skies albeit with low reserves.  I only managed to level the first two because he grouped poorly and were strafed, but he still got torps in.  Were that not the case he could have succeeded on wave one or two.

49 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

You have to work on your CV gameplay if you are getting successfully sniped all the time in Ranger.

Yes, yes I know it's a tall order, seeing that the OP premiums are almost always packing a 19pt captain with an experienced player behind the wheel, but you will just have to learn to see the snipe coming and counter it with your fighters and smart positioning

And I do work on it regularly and keep an eye out for absent planes, and as I said above he grouped poorly in my last match. But at the end of the day my fighters being double-teamed isn't conducive to preventing the snipe.  If the Ranger had AA defensive fire (which i didn't know T8-T10 have because I haven't made it that far) it would deter this kind of behavior.  Knowing that they higher tiers do have it is a little consoling so I know I'm not hitting a wall with US CVs.

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9 hours ago, SerialSniper15 said:

And I do work on it regularly and keep an eye out for absent planes, and as I said above he grouped poorly in my last match. But at the end of the day my fighters being double-teamed isn't conducive to preventing the snipe.  If the Ranger had AA defensive fire (which i didn't know T8-T10 have because I haven't made it that far) it would deter this kind of behavior.  Knowing that they higher tiers do have it is a little consoling so I know I'm not hitting a wall with US CVs.

do you want me to break the bad news to you now or later, it dos get a bit better when you hit tier 8 DEFAA helps a lot when and if they try at that lvl the biggest problem your going to have is the other CV you face and only having 1 fighter squad at tier 8, plus being uptierd into tier 10 matches, but you learn how to work around them and have fun with Lexington. if you need any tips or help fell free to send me a msg and ill try and help you as much as i can.

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I've said this on other threads, but if you're in a T7 carrier other than a Saipan, you can always close the range on a Saipan and secondary him.

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Personally, I'm not sure why you put this in the IJN CV section of all places.

Probably general CV topics or USN CV would be a better place.

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CV sniping is NOT a valid strategy. It is a good way to lose games. It means your planes are taking an extra long time to hit a ship they aren't sinking on the first attempt.

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey

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The general rule of thumb is that if you haven't seen the enemy bombers by the 2-3 minute mark, rush your fighters back to defend.

A carrier snipe depends mainly upon the element of surprise and the potential damage from an alpha strike (it used to be that DOT was also valid, but ever since CVs received a 30s damage control, that is no longer the case). As such, any one of these factors being mitigated will result in a major failure for the would-be sniper.

For the case of ranger:

  • Your large tier 7 fighter squadron is incredibly deadly against all enemy bombers that you will face. Even a partially successful strafe will shut down a snipe attempt. Saipan may be the sole exception to this, but any Saipan that attempts a snipe is incredibly poor at playing CVs. Wipe the floor with them.
  • Your fighters will, 1v1, beat any other fighter squadron (even Saipans). Thus, an opponent dedicated to the success of the snipe will be forced to send both squadrons, leaving his teammates unprotected. Use this gap to get in good hits with your own bombers. If he sent in the bombers unescorted, thank him for the free plane kills.
  • Always turn into the torpedo bombers: this will force the bombers to either miss or spend more time in your AA, thus giving you the chance to shoot more of them down.
  • Focus your AA: you don't want your gunners focusing the dive bombers while Kaga is leisurely lining up a torpedo attack. It can be easy to forget in the heat of the attack, but every bit helps.
  • Vigilance is key: as stated above, all of this assumes you managed to rush your fighter back to defend. Without it, even a Hiryu is capable of destroying you in one attack.
  • Call your teammates: friendly AA ships so rarely get to actually do their job (I should know, having carriers avoid me like a plague when I bring out my AA guns mod 2-specced Texas, Cleveland, North Carolina, and Missouri), and any competent one within adequate distance will be more than happy to help, to your benefit and the detriment of the enemy CV.
  • Account for all enemy bombers: don't be that one fellow that managed to survive Kaga's torpedo bombers only to die to fires from the one dive bomber that hung out in the back. Make sure all enemy bombers have either attacked or been destroyed before you activate damage control.
  • Run the fleeing bombers down: if you survive, the least you can do is make the enemy CV eat a squadron wipeout penalty. Eliminate as many planes as possible, especially the torpedo bombers. However, don't pursue over enemy AA ships; it's not worth it.
  • Don't let the surface ships have a go: there are videos of divisioned battleships dev-strikimg carriers who thought they were safe despite being spotted. Either eliminate all enemies spotting you or be far away enough that the enemy surface ships decide that you aren't worth trying to finish off.
Edited by Avenge_December_7

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On 4/9/2018 at 6:51 PM, SerialSniper15 said:

I recently got the Ranger at T7 and the game has just about become unplayable.  If you're playing another Ranger it's just good old-fashioned CV play.  But if I'm playing against a Kaga or Saipan, they just CV snipe one game after another.  It's not even fun to play at this point.  I recognize it's a legitimate strategy to take out the enemy CV but that's ALL they do, even avoiding isolated BBs.  The broken factor is that there is no punishment if they fail.  The last game I played I leveled TWO FULL WAVES of fighters, bombers, and torps when they tried sniping and they STILL came back a third time in the late game with full squadrons.  Seriously?  Is this all it's come to?  I recognize that US fighters are better so a change of tactics is in order but this has gotten ridiculous.

Simple solution: give US CVs (or maybe all CVs) T7 and up AA defensive fire.  If nothing else, it will be a deterrent and make sloppy players learn real tactics.

Someone should have told Ray Spruance and FJ Fletcher at Midway that CV sniping was horrible.  Kaga, Akagi and Soryu did /not/ appreciate the battle starting snipe.

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1 minute ago, crzyhawk said:

Someone should have told Ray Spruance and FJ Fletcher at Midway that CV sniping was horrible.  Kaga, Akagi and Soryu did /not/ appreciate the battle starting snipe.

To be fair, apparently the USN:

  • managed to grab 3 tier 8 CVs against 4 tier 7s
  • hacked so that their dive bombers could
    • not be spotted until they were right on top of the IJN CVs (although poor play by the IJN fighters also helped)
    • kill a full-health CV with 1-3 bomb hits each
  • was able to see the red team chat (someone must have been streaming :cap_book:)
  • possibly even had repair party on one of their CVs (it would seem the IJN hacked with their torpedo damage values or simply outlasted the damage control in order to sink it)
  • had an allied fort with more health than normal, along with ground-based attack planes (not that they did much)

Either way, the end result was this: 

 

 

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Naw, the USN CVs were T7s, they were all stock ;)

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No no, see the USN CVs were all Yorktown class, so OBVIOUSLY they only carried tier 7 planes despite being tier 8. Like Kaga though, they just carried a CRAPTON of them to make up for the low tier.

And that's SIX IJN CVs thank you very much! Zuiho and Hosho were there too after all. And Yamato. And Kongo. And Fuso. And Nagato. And Chikuma. And Mogami. And Atago. And Myoko. And Yugumo. And Kitakami. And Asashio. And Kagero. And Fubuki. And... Okay is there an IJN ship in this game that WASN'T at Midway? I think that list would be shorter.

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2 hours ago, Landsraad said:

No no, see the USN CVs were all Yorktown class, so OBVIOUSLY they only carried tier 7 planes despite being tier 8. Like Kaga though, they just carried a CRAPTON of them to make up for the low tier.

And that's SIX IJN CVs thank you very much! Zuiho and Hosho were there too after all. And Yamato. And Kongo. And Fuso. And Nagato. And Chikuma. And Mogami. And Atago. And Myoko. And Yugumo. And Kitakami. And Asashio. And Kagero. And Fubuki. And... Okay is there an IJN ship in this game that WASN'T at Midway? I think that list would be shorter.

Of course, evidently the USN got good at strafing out of dogfights in order to stand up to the horde of enemy fighters (or RNG simply favored them that day). I'd say only Hiryu actually played somewhat competently that round.

Seriously speaking, Midway was the first time the USN brought out the Thatch weave, and it quite confounded IJN pilots who were used to dancing around Wildcats normally. There are historical reports that this (along with the failed torpedo bomber attack) occupied the IJN fighters long enough for the fateful dive bomber attacks to begin.

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I agree with the OP, though I actually get sniped by the Hiryu more often than anything else. Halfways decent Saipan players realize that shooting a Ranger is a waste of a strike; they can simply shoot down all her planes and ignore the ship. The same holds true with a Kaga, though it's a little tougher to do. Basically, if I'm fighting against any carrier that seems to be decently captained other than another Ranger, I'm playing a short game. I try to make sure I get at least 2 strikes out before I get sniped, and I'll happily suicide squadrons of fighters in order to create a hole for my strike aircraft to get through. I have 3 full squadrons, and it's unlikely I'll last long enough to run out.

The only real counter I've seen to a Ranger carrier snipe is a full AA spec Atlanta parking themselves next to me. It was glorious to watch the carnage (between my fighters and his AA, we shot down every plane before it attacked), but it takes a rare person to volunteer to do nothing for the first 3 minutes of the game.

I don't have a problem with being so vulnerable, if I got some great perks for it, like a good strike combo, or fast rearming planes, or lots of squadrons, or fast planes, but alas, the Ranger doesn't have any of those either.

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On 5/5/2018 at 1:35 AM, JZ909 said:

I agree with the OP, though I actually get sniped by the Hiryu more often than anything else. Halfways decent Saipan players realize that shooting a Ranger is a waste of a strike; they can simply shoot down all her planes and ignore the ship. The same holds true with a Kaga, though it's a little tougher to do. Basically, if I'm fighting against any carrier that seems to be decently captained other than another Ranger, I'm playing a short game. I try to make sure I get at least 2 strikes out before I get sniped, and I'll happily suicide squadrons of fighters in order to create a hole for my strike aircraft to get through. I have 3 full squadrons, and it's unlikely I'll last long enough to run out.

The only real counter I've seen to a Ranger carrier snipe is a full AA spec Atlanta parking themselves next to me. It was glorious to watch the carnage (between my fighters and his AA, we shot down every plane before it attacked), but it takes a rare person to volunteer to do nothing for the first 3 minutes of the game.

I don't have a problem with being so vulnerable, if I got some great perks for it, like a good strike combo, or fast rearming planes, or lots of squadrons, or fast planes, but alas, the Ranger doesn't have any of those either.

As I stated previously, vigilance is the key to avoiding snipes: if enemy bombers haven't made their appearance by the 2-3 minute mark, recall all your fighters. Even the half-hearted interference from the fighter can be all that is needed to foil a snipe (as well as damage control discipline: see my post above for more information).

It takes at least 4 torpedoes to kill a Ranger (including any dive bomber hits, but frankly I don't think a DB drop is going to hit more than 4 hits per squadron, so 5-6 torpedoes is more accurate). Frankly, if you're getting hit by that many torpedoes, the problem may be torpedo evasion instead.

Truth be told, Kaga is a much better sniper than Hiryu, simply due to a hard-to-dodge torpedo spread and the sheer volume of torpedoes dropped. If you can survive a Kaga snipe, you should have no trouble surviving a Hiryu snipe.

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