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xX_GRIDLOK_Xx

Submarines maybe?

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I have played on War Thunder the submarines. So when is this company gonna come out with that kind of vehicle? Guess Gijan has beat them to it. But you know what them submarines are pretty fun and the game play is a bit diffrent. To bad this company hasn't even put anything up trying to show that they are even trying for it. But its sad a company that has a lot less player base in there tank and plane and ship game play but seems to open a new class of fleets of vehicle and playing with that much less of customers to make them money. They actually seem to be a bit cheaper on there prices also but to bad WG cant make it like that. But would be nice to see WG put something together to try to keep up with the competing company's. Maybe a poll will help.  But who wants to have submarines?

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Excellent constructive post full of original ideas.

(ok, I'll drop the sarcasm, I'd have no problem with submarines in the game, -more floaty things to sink- but plenty of other people would. Also your topic is sure to attract negative responses, use the search function)/

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Ijn destroyers effectively act as submarines.

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At present the majority of players of WoWs prefer not to have to deal with submarines of the WWII era.  I know how insulting this is going to seem, but if you like submarines you already know of games where you can play them, perhaps that is where you should be playing.

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*twitch*

No. Submarines. In. This. Game.

- WT's submarines are in a sub-vs-sub game mode only from what I've seen

- Submarines weren't used in fleet operations, like what this game is about. They were commerce raiders, not fleet combatants.

- Destroyers already fill the stealthy torpedo hunter niche in this game, so submarines would be superfluous

- Good luck getting your submarine in position when every other ship at tier goes faster, with the most famous and numerous submarines being slower submerged than the slowest ship currently in game

- Ships that slow are not fun to play especially since everything else is way faster, up to three or four times as fast

- There is no map geometry under water in this game, so every single map would need to be remade

- Ships would need ASW weapons

- Capping mechanics are very problematic when you need to account for submarines

- WG already can't properly balance four ship types and you want to add a fifth that plays entirely differently?

- Submarines are a fraction of the tonnage of even the smallest destroyers, and since tonnage for the most part dictates hitpoints, submarines would be a one-shot for just about everything else afloat

So in short, submarines would be un-fun to play in this game, un-fun to play against, require significant rework of the entire game engine and assets, don't work in fleet operations, introduce more problems than they solve and try to fill a game play style that already exists, only worse in every single way.

"But WT has submarines and they work just fine!"

Go play that then.

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Tier X submarines would have a surface speed of 21 knots at best and, what, a 10 knot submerged speed.

How does that function on Tier X maps?

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7 minutes ago, xX_GRIDLOK_Xx said:

I have played on War Thunder the submarines. So when is this company gonna come out with that kind of vehicle? Guess Gijan has beat them to it. But you know what them submarines are pretty fun and the game play is a bit diffrent. To bad this company hasn't even put anything up trying to show that they are even trying for it. But its sad a company that has a lot less player base in there tank and plane and ship game play but seems to open a new class of fleets of vehicle and playing with that much less of customers to make them money. They actually seem to be a bit cheaper on there prices also but to bad WG cant make it like that. But would be nice to see WG put something together to try to keep up with the competing company's. Maybe a poll will help.  But who wants to have submarines?

here we go again another tread on subs. WArgaming is said it inpossible for sub to come. Just because warthunder add subs doesnt mean we getting subs.

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:

- Submarines are a fraction of the tonnage of even the smallest destroyers, and since tonnage for the most part dictates hitpoints, submarines would be a one-shot for just about everything else afloat

this I disagree with. Submerged subs had similar displacement to destroyers of the game period. (1000-2000 tonnes)

5 minutes ago, Lert said:

- Good luck getting your submarine in position when every other ship at tier goes faster, with the most famous and numerous submarines being slower submerged than the slowest ship currently in game

Map spawns could alleviate this, allowing for advanced deployment. Surface speed, as with other vessels in game, can be optmistic too. Coupled with insane surface concealment values.. (half that of same tier dds)

 

 

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7 minutes ago, DarthZeppelin said:

this I disagree with. Submerged subs had similar displacement to destroyers of the game period. (1000-2000 tonnes)

Some of them maybe. They were still in general considerably smaller than same era destroyers, and much weaker than them in a surface combat capacity, also more fragile than them - a single hole wouldn't sink a destroyer as much as it would a submarine. using submerged displacement as main measurement vs surface displacement of destroyers is also disingenuous. If you made a destroyer 100% water tight and submerge it, it would displace a lot more water than on the surface as well. Compare surface displacement if you want a more fair measurement.

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5 minutes ago, DarthZeppelin said:

this I disagree with. Submerged subs had similar displacement to destroyers of the game period. (1000-2000 tonnes)

Darth, how familiar are you with submarines of the era?  Compared to surface ships, even the smallest destroyer has far more reserve buoyancy which makes up a significant portion of the hit point pool.  A submarine submerges by REDUCING that buoyancy reserve.  Poke even one significant hole in a ballast tank and you reduce the amount of buoyancy that sub can regain by "blowing" the water out of that tank.  Poke even a relatively small hole in the PRESSURE HULL and the compromised compartment begins losing buoyancy reserve and the ship may become unable to drive itself to the surface. Flooding even one compartment could sink the entire ship, the very definition of a "One Hit Wonder." 

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15 minutes ago, Lert said:

*twitch*

No. Submarines. In. This. Game.

- WT's submarines are in a sub-vs-sub game mode only from what I've seen

- Submarines weren't used in fleet operations, like what this game is about. They were commerce raiders, not fleet combatants.

- Destroyers already fill the stealthy torpedo hunter niche in this game, so submarines would be superfluous

- Good luck getting your submarine in position when every other ship at tier goes faster, with the most famous and numerous submarines being slower submerged than the slowest ship currently in game

- Ships that slow are not fun to play especially since everything else is way faster, up to three or four times as fast

- There is no map geometry under water in this game, so every single map would need to be remade

- Ships would need ASW weapons

- Capping mechanics are very problematic when you need to account for submarines

- WG already can't properly balance four ship types and you want to add a fifth that plays entirely differently?

- Submarines are a fraction of the tonnage of even the smallest destroyers, and since tonnage for the most part dictates hitpoints, submarines would be a one-shot for just about everything else afloat

So in short, submarines would be un-fun to play in this game, un-fun to play against, require significant rework of the entire game engine and assets, don't work in fleet operations, introduce more problems than they solve and try to fill a game play style that already exists, only worse in every single way.

"But WT has submarines and they work just fine!"

Go play that then.

Lert is that a copy/paste job from last weeks sub posting?

Or do you just have it memorized by now?

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8 minutes ago, Lert said:

Some of them maybe. They were still in general considerably smaller than same era destroyers, and much weaker than them in a surface combat capacity, also more fragile than them - a single hole wouldn't sink a destroyer as much as it would a submarine. using submerged displacement as main measurement vs surface displacement of destroyers is also disingenuous. If you made a destroyer 100% water tight and submerge it, it would displace a lot more water than on the surface as well. Compare surface displacement if you want a more fair measurement.

Well said Lert.

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1 minute ago, c3shooter said:

Lert is that a copy/paste job from last weeks sub posting?

It well should be.

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23 minutes ago, xX_GRIDLOK_Xx said:

I have played on War Thunder the submarines. So when is this company gonna come out with that kind of vehicle? Guess Gijan has beat them to it. But you know what them submarines are pretty fun and the game play is a bit diffrent different. To Too bad this company hasn't even put anything up trying to show that they are even trying for it. But its it's sad a company that has a lot less player base in there their tank and plane and ship game play but seems to open a new class type of fleets of vehicle and playing with that much less of customers to make them money. They actually seem to be a bit cheaper on there their prices also but to too bad WG cant can't make it like that. But would be nice to see WG put something together to try to keep up with the competing company's companies. Maybe a poll will help.  But who wants to have submarines?

:Smile_facepalm:

 

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They'd also be horrifically slow. 

You're either running at essentially WW1/USN Standard speeds on the surface (and getting totally obliterated by anything and everything that looked at you), or going so slow underwater that you'd spend the entire match trying to get into position only for that ship be sunk by allies and leave you a wasted boat anyhow. 

Also alone some HE shells landing near you as you're diving should in theory crack open the pressure hull like a depth charge, leaving you either plunging down or emergency surfacing. But hey, I'm sure spending the next few minutes in a steep dive down past crush depth, while screeching futilely will give someone plenty of time to realize how horrid an idea it was. 

....why am I even bothering to put so much effort in this. 

Oh right, I got bored. 

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35 minutes ago, xX_GRIDLOK_Xx said:

Maybe a poll will help.  But who wants to have submarines?

If you mean this then yes I'm with you

image.jpeg

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42 minutes ago, xX_GRIDLOK_Xx said:

I have played on War Thunder the submarines. So when is this company gonna come out with that kind of vehicle? Guess Gijan has beat them to it. But you know what them submarines are pretty fun and the game play is a bit diffrent. To bad this company hasn't even put anything up trying to show that they are even trying for it. But its sad a company that has a lot less player base in there tank and plane and ship game play but seems to open a new class of fleets of vehicle and playing with that much less of customers to make them money. They actually seem to be a bit cheaper on there prices also but to bad WG cant make it like that. But would be nice to see WG put something together to try to keep up with the competing company's. Maybe a poll will help.  But who wants to have submarines?

ndRZ1tD.gif

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20 minutes ago, CAPT_Rob said:

Darth, how familiar are you with submarines of the era?  Compared to surface ships, even the smallest destroyer has far more reserve buoyancy which makes up a significant portion of the hit point pool.  A submarine submerges by REDUCING that buoyancy reserve.  Poke even one significant hole in a ballast tank and you reduce the amount of buoyancy that sub can regain by "blowing" the water out of that tank.  Poke even a relatively small hole in the PRESSURE HULL and the compromised compartment begins losing buoyancy reserve and the ship may become unable to drive itself to the surface. Flooding even one compartment could sink the entire ship, the very definition of a "One Hit Wonder." 

this isn't a simulation, far from it. If we wanted to make subs work in game, we could, quite easily. (Just as we make other ship classes work, by artificially inflating stats, adding a fantasy HP stat, and more.) But don't worry, relax, subs will never enter the game. 

As for the dmg comparison to dds, how do you think dds repair their engines within seconds, when in rl a blown boiler in a twin boiler setup would require a return to port? The game is a fantasy, the only historical accurate (mostly, Monarch..) elements are the ship's models, not their capacities.

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