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crazyferret23777

IJN Kii AA build ?

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 IS it worth doing a full AA build on the Kii as it seems that carriers are more common at mid tiers then higher tiers? My experience with higher tier games is that carriers appear once every four games played. I was just playing my Texas the last 2 days and I was getting carriers 2 out of every 3 games. Is this everyone's experience as well? If not a full AA build what do you find best works for you when playing the Kii?

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3 minutes ago, crazyferret23777 said:

 IS it worth doing a full AA build on the Kii as it seems that carriers are more common at mid tiers then higher tiers? My experience with higher tier games is that carriers appear once every four games played. I was just playing my Texas the last 2 days and I was getting carriers 2 out of every 3 games. Is this everyone's experience as well? If not a full AA build what do you find best works for you when playing the Kii?

Yeah it's pretty viable. Kii has AA rivaling equal tier US BBs and has the best values for long- and medium-ranges (though she lacks short-range).

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   Problem is, to make Kii or K2 as my buddy likes to call it even in overall AA with NC or 'Bama, you have to give up your dispersion module for the AA module, which is giving up a lot of the shooting goodness K2 and Amagi are known for. I've tried it twice for a number of games, and always end up switching back. I feel like the dispersion buff doesn't just help your horizontal dispersion but your vertical dispersion as well, an issue US BB's just don't have to wrestle with frankly.

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Since KII is not a brawler, but a mid yo long range sniper, I use main batter dispersion module. Then I buff the AA with other modules, captain skills and flags.

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A full AA built Kii exceeds even the US BB's that are also spec fully for AA. Primarily because the long range AA has a higher DPS and with manual AA it becomes extremely potent (220dps is achievable with all the skills, modules, and flags equipped which can become 440dps with manual AA).

 

The Kii's long range AA with manual AA is essentially the same as if the NC mid range and short range AA are shooting out to 7.2km, then you have the Kii's 300+dps mid range AA, the US BB's have a good chunk of their AA dps in their short range which won't come into play until the planes drop their payload.

Kii is just better at deterring/reducing the striking power of the air group

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It is viable. I personally run a captain with all the AA skills but still get the main battery accuracy module.

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Yep.  Kii with AA build is love.  I've built mine that way and my Kii has a specific commander for just that.  She's an AA monster, especially with MFAAC.  

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Kii's AA really is one of her few selling points. With the slightly rising CV player base and the imminent release of Graf Zeppelin, Kii have a chance in redeeming herself as a competitive tier 8 premium with those deadly 100mm dp guns.

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Kii is my IJN BB trainer, so I don't have any AA captain skills on her whatsoever, instead opting for concealment and fire prevention. But I did take AA mod 2 to extend her AA range a little. The dispersion on IJN BBs is already very good, so I felt I didn't need the 7% reduction all that much. So far, I've not had many problems and she has performed fairly well for me.

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15 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

 IS it worth doing a full AA build on the Kii as it seems that carriers are more common at mid tiers then higher tiers? My experience with higher tier games is that carriers appear once every four games played. I was just playing my Texas the last 2 days and I was getting carriers 2 out of every 3 games. Is this everyone's experience as well? If not a full AA build what do you find best works for you when playing the Kii?

Use the mixed build that you would use on any high tier USN BB, there is little reason to go all-AA. There arent that many CVs at tiers 8-X. Meanwhile, the planes of tiers 6-7 CVs are fragile enough to be killed without using full AA spec. Use the dispersion module + reload module, but take Adrenaline, BFT and AFT.

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17 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

 IS it worth doing a full AA build on the Kii as it seems that carriers are more common at mid tiers then higher tiers? My experience with higher tier games is that carriers appear once every four games played. I was just playing my Texas the last 2 days and I was getting carriers 2 out of every 3 games. Is this everyone's experience as well? If not a full AA build what do you find best works for you when playing the Kii?

Like most people have said run a AA Captain but keep your main battery accuracy module, she does fine like this.

cheers 

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It's viable, but I run a survivability/concealment/main battery build on my japanese battleships. 

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Everybody thinks AA is worthless, until a CV shows up.  Then they come to the boards and whine how their Survival Build or whatever Non-AA spec didn't save them.  Especially if that ship of theirs could have had amazing AA.

 

You can tell when even a High Tier USN BB doesn't have AA spec.  They get smashed just like they were a Tirpitz.

 

Below is an Aerroon video testing of a pre-release version of Graf Zeppelin with 15 TBs.  This version doesn't exist anymore, but you can see just how well a Non-AA Spec USN BB holds up under air attack.

"B-But Haze!  USN BBs have great AA already!"

Sure, but AA is useless if you're not built for it.  If you don't build for it, then don't come crying to the boards when a CV insta-nukes you because you could have an a High AA Ship, but specifically made a conscious decision to not build for it.  That North Carolina only shot down 2 planes before the TBs dropped.

 

"You reap what you sow."

 

Kii, NC, Alabama, Iowa, Gneisenau, Lyon, Richelieu, Alsace, Republique, Missouri, Montana, Monarch, Queen Elizabeth, Lion, Conqueror, Texas... All can have exquisite to amazing AA, if specc'ed for it.  If they're not, then you are easy game like a Mutsu, Tirpitz, Arizona.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Everybody thinks AA is worthless, until a CV shows up.  Then they come to the boards and whine how their Survival Build or whatever Non-AA spec didn't save them.  Especially if that ship of theirs could have had amazing AA.

 

You can tell when even a High Tier USN BB doesn't have AA spec.  They get smashed just like they were a Tirpitz.

 

Below is an Aerroon video testing of a pre-release version of Graf Zeppelin with 15 TBs.  This version doesn't exist anymore, but you can see just how well a Non-AA Spec USN BB holds up under air attack.

"B-But Haze!  USN BBs have great AA already!"

Sure, but AA is useless if you're not built for it.  If you don't build for it, then don't come crying to the boards when a CV insta-nukes you because you could have an a High AA Ship, but specifically made a conscious decision to not build for it.  That North Carolina only shot down 2 planes before the TBs dropped.

 

"You reap what you sow."

 

Kii, NC, Alabama, Iowa, Gneisenau, Lyon, Richelieu, Alsace, Republique, Missouri, Montana, Monarch, Queen Elizabeth, Lion, Conqueror, Texas... All can have exquisite to amazing AA, if specc'ed for it.  If they're not, then you are easy game like a Mutsu, Tirpitz, Arizona.

You'll see a CV what, every other game?

And in those games, even if the CV has a hard on for you, you might get targeted twice at the most. Assuming you get targeted at all (it's unlikely you'll be the only viable target) - and in these games you can mitigate 'target syndrome' be sailing near the main group so enemy planes need to fly over AA bubbles.

 

On the other hand.

 

You will be HE spammed every game, for one, making fire mitigation skills a good return on investment, among other builds

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10 minutes ago, why_u_heff_to_be_mad said:

You'll see a CV what, every other game?

And in those games, even if the CV has a hard on for you, you might get targeted twice at the most. Assuming you get targeted at all (it's unlikely you'll be the only viable target) - and in these games you can mitigate 'target syndrome' be sailing near the main group so enemy planes need to fly over AA bubbles.

 

On the other hand.

 

You will be HE spammed every game, for one, making fire mitigation skills a good return on investment, among other builds

Oh, I know why you guys don't spec for AA.  I understand.

 

But just don't come crying to the boards when you get nuked by a CV because you chose to ignore your AA capability of your ship.  These boards are literally FILLED with tears about CVs nuking their precious babies.

Every.

Single.

Day.

 

Every build is a give and take process.  Just don't come crying when your "Survival" Build doesn't help you survive against Air Attacks.  But seeing the message board traffic regarding tears about CVs, I know this is a pointless idea.

 

Late edit:  I have a Division Mate who has a DM with zero dedication of AA, opting for other skills, builds.  I understand why.  "I don't ever see CVs, not to mention, CVs are scared of DMs anyways."

 

Except that all goes out the window when the opposing CV actually shows up and knows that DM isn't specced for AA.  Then I see him get nuked by the CV and he goes on ranting about how CVs are OP.  He's a buddy, so I let him rant and blow off steam.  But I know in my mind, it's his fault.  It could have been easily avoided, but he too, made a conscious decision, "Because I never see CVs anyways" and left a gaping hole of a weakness.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Oh, I know why you guys don't spec for AA.  I understand.

 

But just don't come crying to the boards when you get nuked by a CV because you chose to ignore your AA capability of your ship.  These boards are literally FILLED with tears about CVs nuking their precious babies.

Every.

Single.

Day.

 

Every build is a give and take process.  Just don't come crying when your "Survival" Build doesn't help you survive against Air Attacks.  But seeing the message board traffic regarding tears about CVs, I know this is a pointless idea.

 

Late edit:  I have a Division Mate who has a DM with zero dedication of AA, opting for other skills, builds.  I understand why.  "I don't ever see CVs, not to mention, CVs are scared of DMs anyways."

 

Except that all goes out the window when the opposing CV actually shows up and knows that DM isn't specced for AA.  Then I see him get nuked by the CV and he goes on ranting about how CVs are OP.  He's a buddy, so I let him rant and blow off steam.  But I know in my mind, it's his fault.  It could have been easily avoided, but he too, made a conscious decision, "Because I never see CVs anyways" and left a gaping hole of a weakness.

Yup. AA builds can even be strong on ships with mediocre AA. It is all about mitigating damage from CVs. Of course with CV populations as low as they are it isn't really worth it from a try-hard perspective. However, when that CV does turn up the AA feels soooo nice. People rage all the time about CVs nuking them, but yeah. If you don't invest in skills at all then why would you expect to get the benefit?

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42 minutes ago, AdmiralPiett said:

Yup. AA builds can even be strong on ships with mediocre AA. It is all about mitigating damage from CVs. Of course with CV populations as low as they are it isn't really worth it from a try-hard perspective. However, when that CV does turn up the AA feels soooo nice. People rage all the time about CVs nuking them, but yeah. If you don't invest in skills at all then why would you expect to get the benefit?

My Montana for example is AA Build.  No Manual AA trait, sure, but I don't slot BOS nor even FP that people here seem to proclaim is a "Must have" in a build these days.  I deal with fires just fine.  I'm not one of those "1 fire pop DCP" idiots.  Even my Secondary Spec GK doesn't feature BOS, FP.  She's just fine.

 

But when that CV shows up, the AA Spec is reassuring.  I'm not saying it makes me downright immune to air attacks.  It simply makes it VERY costly to come after my AA Spec ship.  If it bleeds the CV well then it does the job.  If the AA Spec scared away the CV to look for someone else and I don't even get 1 plane kill, then the AA Spec did it's job.  You can sail in a CV match much more confidently.  FFS, I feel safer in a CV match with my Sec.Spec Bismarck's somewhat mediocre AA than I do with Tirpitz.  On the flip side to that, you got stuff like NC, Alabama, Kii, Lyon, Richelieu, etc.  If AA Spec, you are not constantly paranoid about getting singled out.

"Is the CV coming for me?"

That affects how you sail.

 

Again, all builds are a  Give & Take process.  You leave a weakness open for every strength you get better in, even AA is no exception.  I go for peace of mind in a CV because I do not like sailing a ship that is at the completely mercy of another.  I can use my consumables smartly to deal with fire in my AA Spec.  Even in upgrades, I am adopting more and more DCSM2 instead of SGM2 on my Battleships.  All while having AA on an appropriately AA capable ship to give me peace of mind in a CV match.

 

On the flip side, I'm seeing those Non-AA BBs getting nuked by Carriers that are "nonexistent" :Smile_teethhappy:  In that Aerroon Graf Zeppelin video, as soon as I saw that NC do little damage to the Torp Bombers, I only shook my head.  If that had been my Alabama, North Carolina, those GZ planes would get shredded.  Would I get torps on me still?  YES.  The difference is there would be far less ordnance getting on me than letting  CV get max hits like Aerroon did in that video.

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