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crazyferret23777

noob cruiser player question.

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 I"ve just started playing cruisers and am currently using the Cleveland and the recently purchased  Duca d'Aosta.  I've heard a lot about people using IFHE on BB's secondaries and how bad an idea that is but how valuable is that on a cruiser? Should it be the first tier 4 Cpt skill that I get or is the CM more helpful as the first tier 4 skill? TIA

 

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IFHE can be very valuable on *some* cruisers. Light cruisers would benefit, except of course, British cruisers(AP). Somewhere there is a list of cruisers that benefit from it, perhaps someone has a link for it(I am not home atm)so I don't have it to hand. There is also a formula that you can apply to your ships gun caliber that shows the penetration values against armor using IFHE.

Short answer: IFHE is good for the Cleveland. Concealment is also. Up to you to decide based on your total captain points whether one is more valuable over the other. My 2 cents says concealment is the more viable option if you lack captain points for both.

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1 minute ago, _Rumple_ said:

 

Short answer: IFHE is good for the Cleveland. Concealment is also. Up to you to decide based on your total captain points whether one is more valuable over the other. My 2 cents says concealment is the more viable option if you lack captain points for both.

For us cruiser's I would agree on Concealment being of more value.

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I agree that IFHE is invaluable in Cleveland. Any cruiser (except Royal Navy) with a high rate of fire and gun that is 15.5cm or below will benefit from IFHE. However, you can’t go wrong with Concealment Expert either.

IFHE shells are fun to spam in the Mogami.:Smile-_tongue:

Edited by Cruiser_Kumano

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If you are planning on spending a lot of your time shooting, concealment isn't going to help; you're going to be visible to your maximum gun range anyway. It's only useful when you are repositioning in between shots. Choose per your play style - do you want to hide well or hit hard?

Bear in mind, however, that the Cleveland will be moving up to Tier 8 soon and will be facing Tier 10 opponents.  IFHE might become a necessity on some of the beefier ships you will face. I don't yet know if the Cleveland is going to get access to the concealment module, which might make getting Concealment Expert less critical; it may pay to hold off assigning those skill points until we know a little more.

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IFHE is okay on ALL Cruisers. But they benefit the 150 Light Cruisers the most. The 203 Heavy Cruisers are less benefited by the skill since they don't push the Main Battery passed specific Armour Penetration Thresholds.

But if you're finding yourself within Secondary Battery ranges quite often IFHE will increase the potential Alpha Damage of your small calibre secondaries. Since you're identifying yourself as "inexperienced" I suggest not toying around with Secondary Builds for CACLs. It's very easy to press to aggressively and have little room to escape. 

Also I'm not to sure what you meant by CM. But if you're talking about CE (concealment expert). It is highly recommended you acquire that before anything in most, if not all, Cruisers. If you mean CSM1 (concealment systems module 1) then get that also once available. There's little to no competition for that module slot. SGM3 is an interesting choice, but for the less experienced; Concealment is King. Once you're comfortable with lesser stealth, over time you can then decide to opt for SGM3 over CSM1. But starting out and learning a ship always take CSM1. 

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40 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Bear in mind, however, that the Cleveland will be moving up to Tier 8 soon

...

it may pay to hold off assigning those skill points until we know a little more.

My understanding is that you will get a new Captain in the T8 Cleveland, is that not so? (unless you're talking about a captain that you plan to retrain)

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1 minute ago, ArgosRising said:

My understanding is that you will get a new Captain in the T8 Cleveland, is that not so? (unless you're talking about a captain that you plan to retrain)

If OP is planning on keeping (or transferring-back) this captain in the Cleveland, the up-tiering is something they need to bear in mind. If things are as promised and they get an 8-point captain assigned to the ship, they will still need to grind out the other two points for a four-point skill (or use elite captain XP if they are grinding it out in Space Battles, which EVERYONE without their own 19-point captains should be doing if they have time to spare) and then they will face the same question again.

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3 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

 I"ve just started playing cruisers and am currently using the Cleveland and the recently purchased  Duca d'Aosta.  I've heard a lot about people using IFHE on BB's secondaries and how bad an idea that is but how valuable is that on a cruiser? Should it be the first tier 4 Cpt skill that I get or is the CM more helpful as the first tier 4 skill? TIA

 

I have IFHE on my 15 point captain on my Cleveland.  The image below is how I have specked him out so far. Whether or not you decide to go with IFHE is up to you because you cannot go wrong if you choose to spec out your Cleveland for AA and go with AFT (Advanced FiringTraining) as your first 4-point skill. 

Here is the most popular, by votes, 19-point Cleveland captain build according to Shipcomrade.com: http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0000100000100010000010100010100019?sid=4287543280

 

As far as choosing to go with CE (Concealment Expert) instead, I don't know if that is a good way to spend 4-points on a Cleveland captain. The ship has a base 13.3 km detectability value (8.1 km by air) and with the permanent premium camo you can buy and put on her (or if you cannot afford or don't want to drop 1,000 doubloons on the premo camo, you can use the Type 1 camo for 7,500 credits or that is often awarded in crates), that drops it down to 12.9 km by sea. The Cleveland's 152mm guns have a base range of 13.3 km with the stock gun fire control system. Once you upgrade to GFCS mod 2, it extends that out to 14.6 km. It's not that CE is a bad a skill as it will help you to remain undetected longer until you fire your guns, but I just feel IFHE and AFT are better skills for the Cleveland over CE.

Of course, with the up-and-coming U.S. cruiser line split where the Cleveland will likely move up to tier VIII, how you spec out her captain skills may change, but as others have pointed out, when the line split happens, you will likely get an 8-point captain (or maybe 10 or 15-point based on the points and experience on your existing Cleveland captain... depending on how they compensate players) and your current Cleveland captain will remain at tier VI, being transferred to the Pensacola. Right now, WG hasn't stated when the split will happen nor do we know the exact specifics. Much of what is on the forums and YouTube from the community contributors is speculation what little WG has revealed so far.

 

screen shot 0002 2018-April-07 - WoWs US T6 Cleveland captain build.jpg

Edited by daVinci761st

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Cleveland needs concealment first, due to its shirt range. 

Duca needs IFHE first due to pitiful HE performance.

Duca can stay at range and maneuver.

....

General 152 to 155 cruiser builds are CE as your first 4 point skill, followed by IFHE.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

If you are planning on spending a lot of your time shooting, concealment isn't going to help; you're going to be visible to your maximum gun range anyway. It's only useful when you are repositioning in between shots. Choose per your play style - do you want to hide well or hit hard?

Bear in mind, however, that the Cleveland will be moving up to Tier 8 soon and will be facing Tier 10 opponents.  IFHE might become a necessity on some of the beefier ships you will face. I don't yet know if the Cleveland is going to get access to the concealment module, which might make getting Concealment Expert less critical; it may pay to hold off assigning those skill points until we know a little more.

Got me thinking that might want to hold off , resetting any commander skills till then , as they might have a 'freebie" period at that time. Like they did last Oct? or so.

CE is about the default 1st 4 pt skill , except for AS for CE's, and a few BB's and CA's  for that IHFE, . especially if you are not too competent or confident in a new ship. Can't really go wrong with CE. Of course it kinda looks like most T8 ships/fights and above you're looking at 14+ point commanders , so  can always have CE + whatever if you want to go that route.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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I would suggest concealment first.  My reasoning is that survivability is more valuable than a marginal increase in damage, also considering that survivability also equals damage.

To survive in today’s nasty B.B. dominated world cruisers need to be able to approach caps to provide support without having a massive shoot me BBs because I’m the only target you can see! Problem they tend to have without concealment.

Cruisers also need to be able to disengage when their aggressive tendencies lead them to get in too deep.

My feeling is that concealment will alllow smoother transitions and extend the comfortable operating mid range you can work within, extend your lifespan, which contributes to more overall damage.

Last thought, towards the end of matches when everyone is limping around damaged being able to spot enemies before they spot you will be a huge advantage either because you cannot trade damage with a target so you can withdrawal or your can get first strike 

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I had the benefit of playing the Mogami before I acquired the Cleveland. I prioritized with concealment. I really struggled in the ship. The terrific concealment (9.2) tempted me to follow my DDs too close to the Cap. I was great support... for two salvos, and then my PT counter would go from 0 to 5 in a heartbeat and I would be lucky to get out alive.

When I got IFHE my damage numbers shot up significantly, and I was a more effective team member. My WR improved immediately.

In order to survive in the early game when there are multiple threats a cruiser needs to fire from near max range. They also need to be firing almost constantly. These two simple facts cancel out the benefit of proiritizing concealment over IFHE. You are opening up from beyond your CE range, and staying lit unless you are going dark, or re-positioning.

Because of my experience in the Mogami. I chose IFHE for my Cleveland Captain first. It turns the Cleveland into a beast, and your "bite" is so irritating to BBs that they will often switch targets to try to kill you, which means that their guns are not aimed at your teammates as you dance away and go dark. Again, you will probably be closer to your max gun range than your min CE range.

I have little experience in the Duca d'Aosta, but the HE is very aenemic. It dances well and has good range, again I would go IFHE first.

This does not mean that CE is not a must, it definitely is something you want. In very specific situations it can really save your bacon. However, I would go with IFHE first in both of those ships. Just my two cents. 

Edited by Skarp_AGW
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I use,run anything on all my Cruisers that increases the chance of fire including flags,I did buy permanent Camo for my Cleveland a long time ago when they didn’t give out so much free Camo, these days I would just use that

I  use concealment on my Cleveland as well as all my Cruisers and the reason is if I’m undetected and fire ... I’m seen and a squishy Cruiser target so If I have a choice of when that is like firing just before going behind an Island than I will do that, the Cleveland can excell at shooting behind Islands because of its loopy gun arcs

I do not run  AA build on my Cleveland as it takes away from its ability to do damage and leads to less aggressive play, it still has monster AA without doing that

I also don’t do secondary builds on my Cruisers as they tend to be ineffective for me

when the US split comes it will involve upgrades to the Cleveland maybe even a heal .. all yet to be known and I would think a “free” Captain rest like they did when they nerfed Cleveland and all Cruisers many moons ago with guns bigger than 139mm

 

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4 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

 I"ve just started playing cruisers and am currently using the Cleveland and the recently purchased  Duca d'Aosta.  I've heard a lot about people using IFHE on BB's secondaries and how bad an idea that is but how valuable is that on a cruiser? Should it be the first tier 4 Cpt skill that I get or is the CM more helpful as the first tier 4 skill? TIA

 

Concealment should always be your number 1 priority.

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