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World Of Warships: The True Issues Facing Us

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So, to begin with, let me just say a few things. These are my opinions and aren't necessarily facts, though some could be close to the truth. Also, I play all ship types and have, what I consider, a large amount of experience in playing the game. Finally, my stats can be viewed anywhere. I'm a mediocre player with some great game and poor games in all classes of ships. While not unicom, or even close, I do feel that gives me an understanding of whats awesome and really sucks about some different classes of ships and the game play from an average player perspective. I'm not expert, I dont know it all, and I'm only right sometimes but I'm going to do my best to make some points for discussion. I intend for this to be a serious of linked posts for the sake of saving people from what would be an already large wall of text and turnig it into a never ending scroll of text.

With all that said, lets begin here:

Secerts, Intent, and Clarity: 

I dont know what Wargaming is doing or why, at least not most of the time. I dont know why they guard ships, game modes, and mechanic changes like nuclear secrets and I really dont understand it. From premiums that are advertised and never released for months to why certain ships are design in particular ways, we do know for sure or completely. Yes, after a patch is released we may get some clarification on some things but its never 100%. Here are some examples:

Massachusetts and T61, where are they? Why arent they released? We dont know for sure. We can speculate its for some special event or perhaps further need of balancing. However, we really dont know for sure if community contributors were correct about T61 being overpowered or if its going to be part of some event. Why cant Wargaming simply give us a broad answer without the need to search for it or stop showing us plans for things they arent sure of? While I'll still be playing the game, and I'll surely survive, it would just be nice to know where the ship I desire the most actually is. I think its a real issue that everything must remain so secret which in turn causes the forums and comments to flood with "#wheresT61". These are just examples but from October to January we have seen a number of premiums shown by community contributors that arent yet released, which is fine, but why?

I will say that some measure of surprise is great, the hype and excitement for a release date on anything, Wargaming is slowly turning that excitement into some degree of "anger."  Well, not so much anger, but annoyance for me. I hate the idea of setting aside some cash, even just 30 dollars, for a ship thats not being released. I understand "not everything goes to plan" as Wargaming has said itself, but what was the plan at all? We have no idea.

On another note, what is the intent of the Asashio? Why does British HE work the way it does, extra penetration and fire chance? Just two examples in which I've come to my own conclusions. I believe Asashio is meant to target camping battleships because the easiest way to defeat its crazy torpedoes is to have another ship spot them. Simply follow a few kilometers behind your friendlies and you should have a chance to react to them. The long range makes Asashio "radar proof" and guarantees that it will be able to engage campers even at distance. It makes sense to me

What about the British High Explosive Rounds? They seem to me the perfect fix for a bow camping, stationary battleship meta. You cant avoid the damage from these ships in the ways you can from others by parking your battleship at range. Now you're ship will simply be an easy target and the easy mode game play of bow tanking, camping isnt always the answer. Again, this makes sense to me.

These ideas seem logical to me but, is that the intent? Perhaps its just my minds way of seeing things and its just meant as something unique to separate these ships from others of the same class. Again, if Wargaming would just clarify this, maybe we wouldnt hear so much complaining and people would understand what they are meant to do with certain ships, for example. By clarifying the intent, we may see better play out of our team mates and a forum less filled with bickering. We also may be able to get better input for the developers because we know their goal, thus making balancing issues easier to understand and overcome.

I do believe if Wargaming could rectify these issues, we could see a slight improvement in the community and the game. No, it wont work on everyone but it may help with some players, especially when we can site Wargaming's intent directly to others. I think that be decreasing the amount of secrets,  expressing honest intent (Even if that means saying "We just wanted to create something new and fun and werent overly concerned with balance), and clarifying roles and goals, Wargaming would get better player input and thus a better game. 




 

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I agree that it would be more enjoyable to me, whether or not I agree with a particular decision, to understand the rationale for a comparatively small decision as well as how this specific decision fits into the larger context of the game.

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If the issues come from players, can't expect WG to comment much on them. Campfest meta at high tiers? Survival instinct as well as that high-tier firepower is deadlier, not to mention defense isn't upscaled as much.

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Just now, Ramsalot said:

So what are the true issues?

lack of transparency is what I've gathered

 

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Secrets are understandable, telling us we don’t know what we are talking about then saying “oops you guys were right” is stupid. 

Just repeat “ we are looking into it” until you are blue in the face or find the problem. That is much better than saying  “We know better than you” then coming back and proving you don’t later when you find the issue.

Edited by GreyFox78659

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Why would WeeGee share their internal issues with us?  What, exactly, entitles us to this type of information?

 

And even if they did, how would having that information improve your gaming experience?

Edited by JCC45
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Well all publicity is good publicity. Same with hype culture. Everyone (including me) is talking about Asashio or Graf. Yet Abruzzi has passed under the radar and seems to be a pretty good and balanced ship.

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15 minutes ago, Ramsalot said:

So what are the true issues?

Well, this first one is just a lack of explanation about so many little issues that lead to the idea a forum and conversations muddled in speculation and bickering.

14 minutes ago, Combined_Fleet_HQ said:

lack of transparency is what I've gathered

 

Yep, basically and the in turn the 30284309284 Asashio is OP,  Where is T61, and Conqueror needs nerf threads that really contribute nothing to the development of this game.

12 minutes ago, GreyFox78659 said:

Secrets are understandable, telling us we don’t know what we are talking about then saying “oops you guys were right” is stupid. 

Just repeat “ we are looking into it” until you are blue in the face or find the problem. That is much better than saying  “We know better than you” then coming back and proving you don’t later when you find the issue.

Right? A constant issue.

9 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

Why would WeeGee share their internal issues with us?  What, exactly, entitles us to this type of information?

 

And even if they did, how would having that information improve your gaming experience?

Its not so much their internal issues but if they were to say "Asashio is designed to be extremely unique and interesting" or "Asashio is meant as way to discourage camping and increasing team work" we wouldnt have Pigeon of War asking if it should be released in a poll or asking our opinions on his weekly thoughts. Right now certian players are talking about how they "are being targeted," because of their love for battleships. Wouldnt it be nice to not clutter the forum with posts from people that havent even played the ship?

Also, if people knew that Asashio was just meant to be unique they may be more understanding of it or perhaps if they knew it was meant to counter battleship camping they would consider their own game play style. "Asashio is meant to target battleships that do not play with the team by remaining hidden in the back. The 20km torpedo range makes the ship radar proof enough to safely engage campers. The easiest and most effective way to avoid being targeted and destroyed by this ship is to remain with the team to allow them to spot incoming torpedoes." Now if Wargaming had made that exact statement I believe at least some people would begin to question their "border humping strategy," and may become proactive players on the team. Its speculation and hypothetical but its just a way that wargaming could influence some of the things we all complain about.

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16 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

Why would WeeGee share their internal issues with us?  What, exactly, entitles us to this type of information?

 

And even if they did, how would having that information improve your gaming experience?

We are not entitled to anything. On the other hand I am curious to how many monthly salaries I've paid in the last two years. So being honest and forthcoming is a great way to get people to open there wallets. Mines been closed this entire year so far. This is after having 2 years of premium time and every premium ship except for 4. I hate being lied to so the original KM DD fiasco and now the T-61 has made me close my wallet til my faith in WGing is restored. So far they have done nothing in that regard. 

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1 minute ago, Siegewolf said:

And here I thought the issues were War, Greed, Hunger, Lack of Water..........etc

Just me overthinking things again

And here I thought we were on a video game forum....

 

Just me overthinking things again 

 

(p.s. just poking fun)

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The premium ship release delays might have something to do with half of WGs recent introductions needing to be pulled from the shop due to being unbalanced. 

I suspect the game is at the point now where doing this (even to try and bait large initial purchase numbers) is doing more harm than good. The GZ debacle also likely shook WG up a bit. 

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1 hour ago, MaxL_1023 said:

The premium ship release delays might have something to do with half of WGs recent introductions needing to be pulled from the shop due to being unbalanced. 

I suspect the game is at the point now where doing this (even to try and bait large initial purchase numbers) is doing more harm than good. The GZ debacle also likely shook WG up a bit. 

my two cents:

 

I chalk it up to WG attempting to introduce ships that, at its basis, is a carbon copy or close to other ships in terms of performance or statistics and attempts to design them in a way to differentiate and pitch them to us as ships worth buying. This may be due to the foundation with which the ship is designed on or an external mechanic or "gimmick" which changes its gameplay. Its easier to do in WoT than in WoWs. I would look to:

Hipper: Eugen

King George V : Duke of York

New York : Texas

North Carolina : Alabama

Queen Elizabeth : Warspite

Bismarck : Tirpitz

 

The endgoal is to provide ships that players want to buy by making them different/unique while also trying to ensure that the changes do not make them overpowered/underpowered which results in long development times and issues with balance

 

...but this also applies to non-premium as well:

for example:

RN BBs

RN CLs

French BBs

CVs

HE, AP, sigma, fuse time, dispersion, RoF, radar, 1/4 pen vs 1/6 pen, speed boost etc...

WG has attempted to create a game in which the complex mechanics that dictate gameplay are standardized but differentiated at the same time and it boils down to the same issues that plague the old argument of realism vs arcade: wargaming, by shooting for both, either has to sacrifice one more than the other or fail in both aspects. Which does not bode well for the community in either aspect, someone is always bound to be pissed off...

 

tl:dr its hard to develop a game with history as its basis

Edited by Combined_Fleet_HQ
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Hey Fleet,

If you aren't already following us on Facebook, check out the developer's blog:

https://www.facebook.com/wowsdevblog/

It contains some good information regarding upcoming events and news as well as announcements from the developer team.

#anchorsaweigh

dark.png

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8 minutes ago, Combined_Fleet_HQ said:

 someone is always bound to be pissed off...

Bingo. You just nailed it.

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I think there are some pretty straightforward and obvious answers to your questions.

1) Premium Ship releases:  All you really have to say is Graf Zeppelin and you have your answer.  This debacle of major proportions badly damaged WG and they are not likely to do anything like this again.  At this point, if they have a ship in the works but they are not absolutely certain it's ready, it's not going to get released.  Now add into this a lot of the bad press WG has received from Community Contributors on more recent Premium releases and WG is understandably pulling back on premium ship releases and slowing down development cycles in an attempt to get things right. 

2) Game play modifications:  I'm not sure how invested WG is in dealing with things like passive game play in so far as premium ships are concerned.  Had they been truly interested in combating passive game play, they probably wouldn't have designed the upper tier British BB's to be long range sniper specialists.  I appears to me that the main way they try to combat this is with the design of the environment the game takes place in such as placement of caps and terrain on maps, the fairly recent change to the smokescreen rules as well as the older elimination of dd stealth gun fire capabilities.  

3) Different, different, different:  WG feels the need to make every line and premium different from every other whether there is any historical basis in fact to support that difference or not.  This is why UK BB's have amazing HE and great stealth at higher tiers and we get odd premiums.  People like to buy into different so WG feels it has to keep changing things up to keep people interested.  Asashio I believe fits into this category.  True, she may influence some passive gameplay for bb's while promoting very passive game play for the Asashio herself.  However WG is just as likely to release a new premium that promotes passive game play the next day so I think people are reading way too much into this.  She's a different premium that will have a game play style that's dissimilar to just about everything else and that is exactly why she exists. 

4) To Hype of Not to Hype:  For most product releases, WG does a good job of letting people know it's comming, then often building an event around it, and releasing it at just about the right moment when a buyers interest is probably at it's peak.  If you hear rumblings about something on the horizon but it doesn't appear, it's almost certainly not because WG is trying to hype it even more.  Past a certain point, delay becomes counterproductive and interest wanes which defeats the purpose.  If something doesn't appear on schedule, it's almost certainly for one of the reasons listed above. 

Hope this is helpful. 

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52 minutes ago, Combined_Fleet_HQ said:

lack of transparency is what I've gathered

 

I dunno, tho - there are many aspects to any game, and as a former game designer, I don't think it's needed for mechanics, etc, to be visible to players.

Personally, I feel that knowing the ins and outs of a game, at that level of detail, is what kills games.  It may not kill them right away, but it costs in terms of player population and satisfaction.  

I'm going to point to WoW as an example - as the player base got better at theory-crafting and data-mining, and spreading this information, a lot of variety was taken from the game.  Everybody knew the optimum builds and strategies, which narrowed skill gap.  This sounds good, but this led to an increase in dissatisfaction, as every point of DPS difference between classes and specs became worth fighting over.  And because the meta for character builds and party builds became narrower, Blizz simply reduced options, driving away more players.

Sure - WoW is still a strong game, but it's far smaller than it was, because the meta's becaame restrictive for some. 

I'm not saying WoW and WoWS are similar, or that we will see that kind of evolution, but the more you know about how things work, or are done, the less happy you are about it.  Don't ask how sausage is made.  :)

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Premium ships come and go in a cycle, however more interested in seeing the future CV revamp and how it will affect the game and meta.

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45 minutes ago, Spieges said:

Well, this first one is just a lack of explanation about so many little issues that lead to the idea a forum and conversations muddled in speculation and bickering.

Yep, basically and the in turn the 30284309284 Asashio is OP,  Where is T61, and Conqueror needs nerf threads that really contribute nothing to the development of this game.

Right? A constant issue.

Its not so much their internal issues but if they were to say "Asashio is designed to be extremely unique and interesting" or "Asashio is meant as way to discourage camping and increasing team work" we wouldnt have Pigeon of War asking if it should be released in a poll or asking our opinions on his weekly thoughts. Right now certian players are talking about how they "are being targeted," because of their love for battleships. Wouldnt it be nice to not clutter the forum with posts from people that havent even played the ship?

Also, if people knew that Asashio was just meant to be unique they may be more understanding of it or perhaps if they knew it was meant to counter battleship camping they would consider their own game play style. "Asashio is meant to target battleships that do not play with the team by remaining hidden in the back. The 20km torpedo range makes the ship radar proof enough to safely engage campers. The easiest and most effective way to avoid being targeted and destroyed by this ship is to remain with the team to allow them to spot incoming torpedoes." Now if Wargaming had made that exact statement I believe at least some people would begin to question their "border humping strategy," and may become proactive players on the team. Its speculation and hypothetical but its just a way that wargaming could influence some of the things we all complain about.

Us carrrier pilots are targets too. What do we say? I say bring it.

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1 hour ago, Spieges said:

So, to begin with, let me just say a few things. These are my opinions and aren't necessarily facts, though some could be close to the truth. Also, I play all ship types and have, what I consider, a large amount of experience in playing the game. Finally, my stats can be viewed anywhere. I'm a mediocre player with some great game and poor games in all classes of ships. While not unicom, or even close, I do feel that gives me an understanding of whats awesome and really sucks about some different classes of ships and the game play from an average player perspective. I'm not expert, I dont know it all, and I'm only right sometimes but I'm going to do my best to make some points for discussion. I intend for this to be a serious of linked posts for the sake of saving people from what would be an already large wall of text and turnig it into a never ending scroll of text.

With all that said, lets begin here:

Secerts, Intent, and Clarity: 

I dont know what Wargaming is doing or why, at least not most of the time. I dont know why they guard ships, game modes, and mechanic changes like nuclear secrets and I really dont understand it. From premiums that are advertised and never released for months to why certain ships are design in particular ways, we do know for sure or completely. Yes, after a patch is released we may get some clarification on some things but its never 100%. Here are some examples:

Massachusetts and T61, where are they? Why arent they released? We dont know for sure. We can speculate its for some special event or perhaps further need of balancing. However, we really dont know for sure if community contributors were correct about T61 being overpowered or if its going to be part of some event. Why cant Wargaming simply give us a broad answer without the need to search for it or stop showing us plans for things they arent sure of? While I'll still be playing the game, and I'll surely survive, it would just be nice to know where the ship I desire the most actually is. I think its a real issue that everything must remain so secret which in turn causes the forums and comments to flood with "#wheresT61". These are just examples but from October to January we have seen a number of premiums shown by community contributors that arent yet released, which is fine, but why?

I will say that some measure of surprise is great, the hype and excitement for a release date on anything, Wargaming is slowly turning that excitement into some degree of "anger."  Well, not so much anger, but annoyance for me. I hate the idea of setting aside some cash, even just 30 dollars, for a ship thats not being released. I understand "not everything goes to plan" as Wargaming has said itself, but what was the plan at all? We have no idea.

On another note, what is the intent of the Asashio? Why does British HE work the way it does, extra penetration and fire chance? Just two examples in which I've come to my own conclusions. I believe Asashio is meant to target camping battleships because the easiest way to defeat its crazy torpedoes is to have another ship spot them. Simply follow a few kilometers behind your friendlies and you should have a chance to react to them. The long range makes Asashio "radar proof" and guarantees that it will be able to engage campers even at distance. It makes sense to me

What about the British High Explosive Rounds? They seem to me the perfect fix for a bow camping, stationary battleship meta. You cant avoid the damage from these ships in the ways you can from others by parking your battleship at range. Now you're ship will simply be an easy target and the easy mode game play of bow tanking, camping isnt always the answer. Again, this makes sense to me.

These ideas seem logical to me but, is that the intent? Perhaps its just my minds way of seeing things and its just meant as something unique to separate these ships from others of the same class. Again, if Wargaming would just clarify this, maybe we wouldnt hear so much complaining and people would understand what they are meant to do with certain ships, for example. By clarifying the intent, we may see better play out of our team mates and a forum less filled with bickering. We also may be able to get better input for the developers because we know their goal, thus making balancing issues easier to understand and overcome.

I do believe if Wargaming could rectify these issues, we could see a slight improvement in the community and the game. No, it wont work on everyone but it may help with some players, especially when we can site Wargaming's intent directly to others. I think that be decreasing the amount of secrets,  expressing honest intent (Even if that means saying "We just wanted to create something new and fun and werent overly concerned with balance), and clarifying roles and goals, Wargaming would get better player input and thus a better game. 




 

This game is so close to being perfect.....but perfect for each player is in opposite directions.....

Do we have the player base to have a pay for subscription to play? $15 a month? My god I paid $100 for the Hood bundle and haven't played it in ages. My point is, I don't think we need new or more ships, just more things to do with the ships we have.

Edited by Sweetsie
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1 hour ago, Spieges said:

So, to begin with, let me just say a few things. These are my opinions and aren't necessarily facts, though some could be close to the truth. Also, I play all ship types and have, what I consider, a large amount of experience in playing the game. Finally, my stats can be viewed anywhere. I'm a mediocre player with some great game and poor games in all classes of ships. While not unicom, or even close, I do feel that gives me an understanding of whats awesome and really sucks about some different classes of ships and the game play from an average player perspective. I'm not expert, I dont know it all, and I'm only right sometimes but I'm going to do my best to make some points for discussion. I intend for this to be a serious of linked posts for the sake of saving people from what would be an already large wall of text and turnig it into a never ending scroll of text.

With all that said, lets begin here:

Secerts, Intent, and Clarity: 

I dont know what Wargaming is doing or why, at least not most of the time. I dont know why they guard ships, game modes, and mechanic changes like nuclear secrets and I really dont understand it. From premiums that are advertised and never released for months to why certain ships are design in particular ways, we do know for sure or completely. Yes, after a patch is released we may get some clarification on some things but its never 100%. Here are some examples:

Massachusetts and T61, where are they? Why arent they released? We dont know for sure. We can speculate its for some special event or perhaps further need of balancing. However, we really dont know for sure if community contributors were correct about T61 being overpowered or if its going to be part of some event. Why cant Wargaming simply give us a broad answer without the need to search for it or stop showing us plans for things they arent sure of? While I'll still be playing the game, and I'll surely survive, it would just be nice to know where the ship I desire the most actually is. I think its a real issue that everything must remain so secret which in turn causes the forums and comments to flood with "#wheresT61". These are just examples but from October to January we have seen a number of premiums shown by community contributors that arent yet released, which is fine, but why?

I will say that some measure of surprise is great, the hype and excitement for a release date on anything, Wargaming is slowly turning that excitement into some degree of "anger."  Well, not so much anger, but annoyance for me. I hate the idea of setting aside some cash, even just 30 dollars, for a ship thats not being released. I understand "not everything goes to plan" as Wargaming has said itself, but what was the plan at all? We have no idea.

On another note, what is the intent of the Asashio? Why does British HE work the way it does, extra penetration and fire chance? Just two examples in which I've come to my own conclusions. I believe Asashio is meant to target camping battleships because the easiest way to defeat its crazy torpedoes is to have another ship spot them. Simply follow a few kilometers behind your friendlies and you should have a chance to react to them. The long range makes Asashio "radar proof" and guarantees that it will be able to engage campers even at distance. It makes sense to me

What about the British High Explosive Rounds? They seem to me the perfect fix for a bow camping, stationary battleship meta. You cant avoid the damage from these ships in the ways you can from others by parking your battleship at range. Now you're ship will simply be an easy target and the easy mode game play of bow tanking, camping isnt always the answer. Again, this makes sense to me.

These ideas seem logical to me but, is that the intent? Perhaps its just my minds way of seeing things and its just meant as something unique to separate these ships from others of the same class. Again, if Wargaming would just clarify this, maybe we wouldnt hear so much complaining and people would understand what they are meant to do with certain ships, for example. By clarifying the intent, we may see better play out of our team mates and a forum less filled with bickering. We also may be able to get better input for the developers because we know their goal, thus making balancing issues easier to understand and overcome.

I do believe if Wargaming could rectify these issues, we could see a slight improvement in the community and the game. No, it wont work on everyone but it may help with some players, especially when we can site Wargaming's intent directly to others. I think that be decreasing the amount of secrets,  expressing honest intent (Even if that means saying "We just wanted to create something new and fun and werent overly concerned with balance), and clarifying roles and goals, Wargaming would get better player input and thus a better game. 




 

 

Because we are on a need to know basis? Makes sense to me.

Generally, I don't think they have any intent or clarity- it's all crisis management. A vast majority of the crises stem from the silly rock/paper/scissors (that's 3) idea and then have destroyer/cruiser/battleship/aircraft carrier (that's 4). No wonder they have issues balancing and implementing carriers- they started out with lopsided logic.

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Having played tanks as well "boots"...this is how I've come to view WG:

WG is a super hot babe that you have really great sex with..but WG is crazy, bends the truth and you know deep down its not a great relationship.

But you come back because the core sex is good..yet after a while the "crazy" part starts to grate on you.

And you know what they say:

"Never put your credit card in crazy".

i still enjoy both games..as at their core they are good games...just sometimes the problems take away from our hot sex.

:cap_rambo:

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4 minutes ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

 

Because we are on a need to know basis? Makes sense to me.

Generally, I don't think they have any intent or clarity- it's all crisis management. A vast majority of the crises stem from the silly rock/paper/scissors (that's 3) idea and then have destroyer/cruiser/battleship/aircraft carrier (that's 4). No wonder they have issues balancing and implementing carriers- they started out with lopsided logic.

I dont think anything I stated is "need to know basis". Whats wrong with announcing the intent of a ship or clarifying that the premium advertised in November and announced for release on two separate occasions isnt balanced or is being released for something different? What harm is there in either of those examples that makes it so "need to know." In fact, perhaps if I knew when the ship was coming I'd be more inclined to buy it because I knew that I was going to spend 20, 30, or even more dollars that month and could set it aside. Thus,   I get what I want and WG gets what they want.

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11 minutes ago, Spieges said:

I dont think anything I stated is "need to know basis". Whats wrong with announcing the intent of a ship or clarifying that the premium advertised in November and announced for release on two separate occasions isnt balanced or is being released for something different? What harm is there in either of those examples that makes it so "need to know." In fact, perhaps if I knew when the ship was coming I'd be more inclined to buy it because I knew that I was going to spend 20, 30, or even more dollars that month and could set it aside. Thus,   I get what I want and WG gets what they want.

Because they don't want us to know. They want, as many retailers, you to make impulse purchases not logical decisions. If they told you everything, you'd think about more and perhaps decide against it for whatever reason. If you know the schedule of releases, you may skip one for another- again they don't want you to know for that reason.

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@Spieges Your not alone in your thinking my friend, a lot of us that have been here since open beta feel the same, To much Advertizing about ships from CC's and videos, weather they are told by WG to do the things they do or not, like most of us 2 year plus players say, ** We The Player Base ** want Transparency within the game and we don't get it anymore. And for ships being accurate That is a Joke, everyone here that plays the USN BB line knows from Wiki or Janes or any other factual web site that all BB came with Torps, why don't we have them and other do?

Just another inaccuracy coming from War Gaming.

Thanks,

Sere_Pj

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