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 I was having a conversation with someone about Battleships being destroyed by armor-piercing bombs. I pointed out that Arizona and the Roma were destroyed by armor-piercing bombs. This individual called me an idiot and said I did not know my history. He said that the Fritz-X was the first anti-ship missile. My position is that it was the worlds first smart bomb. The Fritz-X was a 3000-pound armor-piercing bomb with a guidance assembly connected to the rear. It had a red flare in the tail to help the weapon officer guide the bomb with a joystick from the bomber to its target. The bomb fell unpowered and vertically and was designed to punch through armored decks, it's capability was demonstrated when two Fritz_x's sank the Italian battleship, Roma. The first bomb passed cleanly through the ship, failing to explode, and punching a huge hole in the bottom of the hull. The second Fritz-X penetrated through the deck next to the number two turret passing through the subsequent armored decks and exploding in the powder magazine.

 

So is the Fritz-X an anti sip missile or a smart bomb, what do you think?

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2 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

 I was having a conversation with someone about Battleships being destroyed by armor-piercing bombs. I pointed out that Arizona and the Roma were destroyed by armor-piercing bombs. This individual called me an idiot and said I did not know my history. He said that the Fritz-X was the first anti-ship missile. My position is that it was the worlds first smart bomb. The Fritz-X was a 3000-pound armor-piercing bomb with a guidance assembly connected to the rear. It had a red flare in the tail to help the weapon officer guide the bomb with a joystick from the bomber to its target. The bomb fell unpowered and vertically and was designed to punch through armored decks, it's capability was demonstrated when two Fritz_x's sank the Italian battleship, Roma. The first bomb passed cleanly through the ship, failing to explode, and punching a huge hole in the bottom of the hull. The second Fritz-X penetrated through the deck next to the number two turret passing through the subsequent armored decks and exploding in the powder magazine.

 

So is the Fritz-X an anti sip missile or a smart bomb, what do you think?

Bomb with a tracking flare

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The Arizona was destroyed mostly by not being completely in condition Zed at the time.  The bomb that hit her was a converted 16" AP naval shell like used on the Mutsu class.  The Japanese basically added tailfins...  Anyway, this sort of bomb also hit Tennessee and Maryland, among other targets.  With the exception of the Arizona hit all of these rounds went off with low order detonations and had poor penetration.  The Arizona round is speculated to have hit between #1 and 2 turrets forward and detonated on the armor deck without penetration.  But, the flash carried through an open hatch into a black powder magazine between the turrets and that led to the detonation.  That's the best theory as to what happened.

The Fritz X was better designed.  It did considerable damage, and not just to Roma.  Warspite took one amidships that wrecked several boiler rooms and crippled the ship off Salerno.  The cruiser USS Savanah took one through #3 turret that detonated in the magazines.  But, the inrush of water flooding that and the other forward magazines prevented a detonation.  There were other ships hit too, but this gives you the picture with Fritz X.

Fritz X is not a "anti-ship missile."   It is a guided bomb.  The US AZON bomb is another example of this.  These weapons can be guided by an operator, but don't have a motor or engine to accelerate them.  The first anti-ship missile is the Hs 293.

7585412282_d1a3e59760_b.jpg

The US equivalent was the USN BAT missile:

bat_missile_under_plane.jpg

The BAT had more sophisticated guidance than the Hs 293.  The later was flown line-of-sight by an operator using a joystick and radio control.  The BAT came in several versions with semi-active radar homing, television command guidance, and line-of-sight command guidance.  Most used radar or television.  This gave the BAT a much greater range than the Hs 293 as the later had to remain within sight of the operator on the launch plane.

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Missiles usually have propulsion like rockets or jet engines,  missiles also get guidance systems where as rockets do not.

Bombs are usually free fall, but can come in some viareties such as bunker busting, parachute, cluster, free fall unguided, and guided Bombs which can have some guidance as they fall to earth.

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Fritz X is a very early 'smart' bomb, in that it does more than than just stupidly fall to the ground. it's a guided bomb.

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The technical term is "Glide Bomb" such as the AGM-62 Walleye.

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Piling on.....its a guided bomb, dependent on human interaction to get it on target, similar to laser guided Paveway bombs used to great effect in Desert Storm.  Smart bombs dont require human guidance , i.e., use GPS.  Missiles can be either guided or smart but have propellant and can manuver versus controlled fall

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10 minutes ago, TornadoADV said:

The technical term is "Glide Bomb" such as the AGM-62 Walleye.

Neither Fritz X or AZON were glide bombs.  They weren't designed to have aerodynamic lift.  Instead, the aerodynamic surfaces were to steady the bomb and allow control of its fall.  So, both really are just guided bombs of the sort like the US GBU series laser guided bombs.

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Obviously the Fritz-X is not a missile.  You set one up on a launch pad, and it's just going to sit there.

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8 hours ago, Murotsu said:

Neither Fritz X or AZON were glide bombs.  They weren't designed to have aerodynamic lift.  Instead, the aerodynamic surfaces were to steady the bomb and allow control of its fall.  So, both really are just guided bombs of the sort like the US GBU series laser guided bombs.

Uhhh...no. Glide Bombs in military parlance are unpowered bombs that have their control surfaces on extensions that don't have to be aerodynamically beneficial. You find me a well respected military source that doesn't call the Fritz-X a glide bomb and I'll eat my hat.

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On 07/04/2018 at 3:05 AM, Gerbertz said:

wasn't a bomb like this guided by a cat?

u1?w=650&q=50&fm=jpg&fit=crop&crop=faces

I hope they didn't fire that cat too! :Smile_teethhappy:

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On 4/6/2018 at 11:51 PM, TornadoADV said:

Uhhh...no. Glide Bombs in military parlance are unpowered bombs that have their control surfaces on extensions that don't have to be aerodynamically beneficial. You find me a well respected military source that doesn't call the Fritz-X a glide bomb and I'll eat my hat.

I don't know if this counts but......

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/bomb-guided-fritz-x-x-1

 

The Smithsonian Air and Space Museum is certainly well respected.

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On 4/6/2018 at 11:51 PM, TornadoADV said:

Uhhh...no. Glide Bombs in military parlance are unpowered bombs that have their control surfaces on extensions that don't have to be aerodynamically beneficial. You find me a well respected military source that doesn't call the Fritz-X a glide bomb and I'll eat my hat.

What type of sauce would you like for your hat?

 

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196228/german-fritz-x-guided-bomb/

 

hehehehehe

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To me the Fritz-x is a radio and/or wire guided, free falling bomb, as it relied on gravity to move and had no propulsion of its own.

Be interesting to see one in person

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On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, Gerbertz said:

wasn't a bomb like this guided by a cat?

u1?w=650&q=50&fm=jpg&fit=crop&crop=faces

Well...  There was the pigeon guided missile...

white-rabbit-670x353.png

 

tumblr_n2qpd06dmG1qkkcodo3_500-1.jpg

 Talk about some bird brained ideas...  This was definitely one of them!  :cap_haloween:

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12 hours ago, Unknown_Entity said:

To me the Fritz-x is a radio and/or wire guided, free falling bomb, as it relied on gravity to move and had no propulsion of its own.

Be interesting to see one in person

The looser definition of "missile" is any object thrown into space (empty or not) by the exertion of a force.  You can refer to arrows or projectiles as missiles, but the Fritz-X fails at even this definition.

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On 4/13/2018 at 1:15 PM, Belthorian said:

I don't know if this counts but......

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/bomb-guided-fritz-x-x-1

 

The Smithsonian Air and Space Museum is certainly well respected.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 1:19 PM, Belthorian said:

How do either of those prove that it isn't a glide bomb again?

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4 minutes ago, TornadoADV said:

 

How do either of those prove that it isn't a glide bomb again?

Because the intern that doesn't know anything about webdesign wrote that that it was.

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Well, Fritz-X has stub wings, and travels at least as far horizontally as it does vertically, so it's definitely gliding, however poorly.

After it's dropped, the launch aircraft climbs to slow down, so that the bombardier can keep the weapon in view. The weapon will arrive on target before the launch aircraft does, a very missile like quality.

Guided bomb, glider bomb or missile, they're all probably technically right on some level.

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10 hours ago, Sventex said:

The looser definition of "missile" is any object thrown into space (empty or not) by the exertion of a force.  You can refer to arrows or projectiles as missiles, but the Fritz-X fails at even this definition.

Which is why to me, the Fritz-x is a bomb, as it technically being acted on by gravity and such, it is only "dropped" from a plane.

Although you could make the argument that it is being "thrown" from the plane

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The BAT missile is more of a glide bomb than the Fritz X.  The later falls by gravity and has no real extended range from the launch plane over a conventional "dumb" bomb.  The BAT on the other hand (photo above in thread) has a range of up to 20+ miles from the launch plane.

 

GB-4 is another US weapon of this sort:

 

These obviously have a very good glide slope ratio and are using their wings for lift and distance, something the Fritz X really doesn't do.

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On 4/21/2018 at 12:47 AM, Murotsu said:

The BAT missile is more of a glide bomb than the Fritz X.  The later falls by gravity and has no real extended range from the launch plane over a conventional "dumb" bomb.  The BAT on the other hand (photo above in thread) has a range of up to 20+ miles from the launch plane.

 

GB-4 is another US weapon of this sort:

 

These obviously have a very good glide slope ratio and are using their wings for lift and distance, something the Fritz X really doesn't do.

So I guess the AGM-62 isn't a glide bomb anymore, get real kiddo. A glide bomb is anything that has control surfaces, which means it needs airflow, which means it can glide and travel in a direction not completed dictated by gravity. Next.

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1 hour ago, TornadoADV said:

So I guess the AGM-62 isn't a glide bomb anymore, get real kiddo. A glide bomb is anything that has control surfaces, which means it needs airflow, which means it can glide and travel in a direction not completed dictated by gravity. Next.

Actually, it is.  It has delta wings, and can glide to about 40 miles from the launch point.  That makes it a glide bomb.  Fritz X had no such capacity on two basis:

First, it wasn't designed to glide any real distance from the drop plane.

Second, there was no way for the controller to control it at even five or so miles from the drop point as it was a CLOS radio control system that required the operator using the Mk 1 eyeball to watch the bomb's fall and correct it's position.

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