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DJC_499

Kronshtadt and Consequences of Asashito and Graf Zeppelin

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I frequently realize that I have the ability to rather profoundly state the obvious, which may well be the case here. With this in mind, I am a dedicated, but casual player that focuses on playing Premium ships in PvE matches. I have been watching with interest the development of the Kronshtadt, as I love Russian Cruisers, and had certainly considered getting her, if possible, as a FXP ship. I thought it interesting that she was seemingly carefully designated as a "Cruiser" versus a "Battlership" in spite of her large size, main gun caliber, and elevated health pool. She did though have relatively low armor protection and comparatively high dispersion. The combination of these did seem to indicate a specific optimal role for this ship although what role that might be was unclear. While it could be a great cruiser-killer, battleships already do a pretty good job at this and I thought that regardless of how high her health pool was that she would be a great target for every BB in the match and that with her low armor that any 15"+ round would readily penetrate and seriously damage her. I started to wonder if this ship was "an answer in search of a question".

During this time I also was watching development of the Asashito and the videos of the devastation it wreaked on BBs, but not interestingly cruisers. Along with this I noted the redevelopment of the Graf Zeppelin and its ability to wreak BBs at will. I read that WarGaming was stating that there was an intent to decrease the number of BBs in matches and it was clear that these two ships could certainly cause people to perhaps decrease the rate of play of mid to high tier BBs, for example, the top played ships in the game, as recent reported. I realized at that point that the Kronshtadt had found the question it was searching to answer: "What is the best ship to play in a BB-depopulated (or absent) meta?". Of course, this would be a battle cruiser that would have the biggest non-BB guns, large health pool, and armor capable of protection from , say 8" guns that might then be the main rifle caliber. She would become the biggest and baddest ship afloat immune to Asashito torps and perhaps less susceptible to devastating strikes from the GZ. This change could cause people to seriously consider getting her, and other "Battlecruiser-type ships, where in the absence of such a possible decrease in BB population this might not be the case. It will be interesting to see how things develop, but I am willing to say now: "Well played WarGaming, well played".

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Nope, Kron is still very vulnerable to G. Zepp.  Moreso given her lackluster AA suite. GZ AP bombs have high pen but low arming threshholds, you see.  I don't believe Kron has enough armor to shrug them off.

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53 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

Nope, Kron is still very vulnerable to G. Zepp.  Moreso given her lackluster AA suite. GZ AP bombs have high pen but low arming threshholds, you see.  I don't believe Kron has enough armor to shrug them off.

Thanks, I was obviously not clear on that. I did find it odd that she was given such low AA protection. Frankly, I thought that she would have as good or better AA than the Kutuzov.

Edited by DJC_499

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1 minute ago, DJC_499 said:

Thanks, I was obviously not clear on that. I did find it odd that she was given such low AA protection. Frankly, I thought that she would as good or better AA than the Kutuzov.

I guess they're trying really hard not to make it OP.  (pity they didn't do better with that with GZ and Asashio, nyuk nyuk) Meanwhile, Stalingrad will get great AA and 32mm plate-but have no HE.

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46 minutes ago, DJC_499 said:

Thanks, I was obviously not clear on that. I did find it odd that she was given such low AA protection. Frankly, I thought that she would as good or better AA than the Kutuzov.

I would look at Musashi and say "There", These ships seem to have a lot in common, and balanced by poor AA is certainly up there in that list of similiarities.

Honestly Kronshtadt to me feels like a reverse Minotaur, you go from ultra squishy light cruiser to ultra heavy, and I don't think she'll be too hard to balance right now, if I were WG I would look toward restoring her hp to its original preview value and decreasing its dispersion to be similar to that of IJN BBs. Then release it out again and see if the ship becomes more balanced or easier to play from its current state.

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1 hour ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

I guess they're trying really hard not to make it OP.  (pity they didn't do better with that with GZ and Asashio, nyuk nyuk) Meanwhile, Stalingrad will get great AA and 32mm plate-but have no HE.

It makes me sad that I've spent two seasons grinding clan gulag and Balansgrad can't even burn things. Did the crew break into the Vodka shells and drink it all, leaving only the Stalinium casings? 

I will say that Balanstadt in its current form looks really fun though. It's going to be a very interesting mix of playstyles. Kinda like a really big Scharnhorst with no armor at T9. It'll probably be a great kiting/flank ship that can take a few more punches than the average cruiser. 

Edited by Show_Me_Your_Cits
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35 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

I would look at Musashi and say "There", These ships seem to have a lot in common, and balanced by poor AA is certainly up there in that list of similiarities.

Honestly Kronshtadt to me feels like a reverse Minotaur, you go from ultra squishy light cruiser to ultra heavy, and I don't think she'll be too hard to balance right now, if I were WG I would look toward restoring her hp to its original preview value and decreasing its dispersion to be similar to that of IJN BBs. Then release it out again and see if the ship becomes more balanced or easier to play from its current state.

It's not really ultra squishy though, just from looking at it. Citadel sits low, unlike most Russian ships. Yeah, it's gonna eat a lot of HE damage and has overmatch to contend with, but it's not going to be Memetaur levels of Spotted = Deleted. 

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37 minutes ago, Show_Me_Your_Cits said:

It's not really ultra squishy though, just from looking at it. Citadel sits low, unlike most Russian ships. Yeah, it's gonna eat a lot of HE damage and has overmatch to contend with, but it's not going to be Memetaur levels of Spotted = Deleted. 

"Reverse Minotaur"..

As in its on the opposite end of the spectrum for cruisers, being more tanky than most similar to minotaur being squishier then most. That's where I would expect the Russian large cruisers to be headed balancewise for survivability.

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The kronstadt need hydro and slot for AA defensive per serapated. 

I have Seattle and it has soft armored deck but to resist very good AP bombs and kron with excellent armored deck is  devastating. Why? 

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3 minutes ago, rafael_azuaje said:

I have Seattle and it has soft armored deck but to resist very good AP bombs and kron with excellent armored deck is  devastating. Why? 

Simple actually: Kronstadt's armor is thick enough to arm the bombs before they overpen, Seattle's is not. AP bombs are basically air-dropped AP shells and behave accordingly. They're designed to go through thick deck armor and hit the citadel and other internals when HE bombs won't cut it. Ergo when used against a lightly armored ship like Seattle they do little damage, while ships with heavy deck armor get nuked.

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6 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Simple actually: Kronstadt's armor is thick enough to arm the bombs before they overpen, Seattle's is not. AP bombs are basically air-dropped AP shells and behave accordingly. They're designed to go through thick deck armor and hit the citadel and other internals when HE bombs won't cut it. Ergo when used against a lightly armored ship like Seattle they do little damage, while ships with heavy deck armor get nuked.

yes but if boats with light armor like the seattle should also be penetrated easier, do not you think? Also in Seattle has a very superior defensive AA fire in an exclusive slot that should knock down many planes.

the kron looks as musashi without AA is first target for CV enemy.

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1 minute ago, rafael_azuaje said:

yes but if boats with light armor like the seattle should also be penetrated easier, do not you think? Also in Seattle has a very superior defensive AA fire in an exclusive slot that should knock down many planes.

No no, that's the point. It's not that the bombs hitting Seattle aren't penetrating, but rather that they're not detonating. Seattle deosn't have the deck armor to arm the fuse in time and this if the bomb detonates at all it does so after going through the ship and out the other side.

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