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Gene_Inari

Either disallow DDs from Operations or make Operations less terrible for DDs.

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Literally in every single Operation, a DD is a wasted slot for the sole exception of a Lenningrad that actually knows how to play, unlike the typical DDs seen in Operations.

Every time I see a DD in an Op, it may as well be a wasted slot. Especially when the typical DD captain in an Operation is the kind of DD player who deploys a smokescreen at full speed and charges a squad of 4 bots and dies in the first three minutes of a mission.

This is the usual score I see on DDs in Ops: 1e2eb95212.png Always bottom of the board and being nothing but a liability.

WG needs to make a DD-only Operation and only allow a maximum of a single DD in all other operations.

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I generally concur. Destroyers are rarely valuable in operations as they lack gun DPM compared to most cruisers and torpedoes lack DPM and are generally frustrating and worthless.

 

On the upside, Dunkirk worked pretty well for destroyers!

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7 minutes ago, mofton said:

On the upside, Dunkirk worked pretty well for destroyers!

I keep hoping that will come back into the rotation.  I suppose they need to figure out a way to make the ships we played in it accessible again, or to provide suitable proxies.

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I miss those destroyers in Halloween event, they were pretty bad-[donkey]

Edited by Ramsalot

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Leningrad/Minsk is viable in Final Frontier, when going to torp the Cleveland.

Aigle is viable when chasing after CVs

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19 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I keep hoping that will come back into the rotation.  I suppose they need to figure out a way to make the ships we played in it accessible again, or to provide suitable proxies.

Me too. Hope you have been suggesting that to WG.

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Survival, Damage, Credits and XP - it's the core elements that the game is based on. If there is a weakness in a ship type that makes it unviable then that's not the fault of the person who decides they like to play a particular ship - that's just a reflection of the balance in game.

Personally I have found that the Raptor Rescue is the only Operation I run a DD in (and do very well), but the rest I'll usually run a Cruiser.

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5 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Me too. Hope you have been suggesting that to WG.

I think it may have to wait until we get French and British DDs.

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49 minutes ago, Gene_Inari said:

Literally in every single Operation, a DD is a wasted slot for the sole exception of a Lenningrad that actually knows how to play, unlike the typical DDs seen in Operations.

Every time I see a DD in an Op, it may as well be a wasted slot. Especially when the typical DD captain in an Operation is the kind of DD player who deploys a smokescreen at full speed and charges a squad of 4 bots and dies in the first three minutes of a mission.

This is the usual score I see on DDs in Ops: 1e2eb95212.png Always bottom of the board and being nothing but a liability.

WG needs to make a DD-only Operation and only allow a maximum of a single DD in all other operations.

A destroyer is only bad in operations if two things are true:

1) The person playing the destroyer is not good at it.
2) Certain destroyers are not necessarily optimal or outright not good.

Since this age old myth is constantly rehashed again and again, I recorded some replays to show off that destroyers are easily good and can come out top many times. I also saved more screenshots as well in some imgur albums.

My YouTube for anyone who wants to see the replays: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC85uXS6bvbFqp7Y7L5QeYIQ
I have replays for Aegis, Killer Whale, Newport, Raptor Rescue, Ultimate Frontier.

A couple more replays recorded by Lord Zath of my runs in destroyers
Narai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjYPnPejgFA&t=5s&list=LL85uXS6bvbFqp7Y7L5QeYIQ&index=3

Ultimate Frontier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91OVUwCPFZs&t=1s&list=LL85uXS6bvbFqp7Y7L5QeYIQ&index=4


And here is my Imgur albums for you to browse yourself: https://lightninger.imgur.com/

Edited by Lightninger
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1 minute ago, Lightninger said:

A destroyer is only bad in operations if two things are true:

1) The person playing the destroyer is not good at it.
2) Certain destroyers are not necessarily optimal or outright not good.

Except the point where both are true distressingly often when playing with randoms solo in ops.

All things being equal, a DD slot is objectively worse in almost all situations that could be better used on a BB or CL/CA.

Because I love seeing IJN DDs in ops played by your typical potato player.

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1 minute ago, Gene_Inari said:

Except the point where both are true distressingly often when playing with randoms solo in ops.

All things being equal, a DD slot is objectively worse in almost all situations that could be better used on a BB or CL/CA.

Because I love seeing IJN DDs in ops played by your typical potato player.

That doesn't mean destroyers are inherently bad in operations though. That's the fault of the player bringing first a bad ship and second not knowing how to play their ship in an effective way. There are many things destroyers can do a lot better in the different operations that can not be accomplished in a cruiser nor battleship. It's just a matter of knowing the scenario and what you're doing.

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1 minute ago, Lightninger said:

That doesn't mean destroyers are inherently bad in operations though.

Anything a DD could do in an Op, a RN cruiser could do a comparable job of and be a less situational ship that a DD.

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Just now, Gene_Inari said:

Anything a DD could do in an Op, a RN cruiser could do a comparable job of and be a less situational ship that a DD.

Wrong, go watch the replays for yourself first before you try to say the same again.

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Show me an average player doing what you do. You are the exception, not the norm. Just because you make a DD work in an Op doesn't mean they're still not an objectively terrible choice in almost all situations.

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If you're having trouble with a weak DD, just get an Aigle

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7 minutes ago, Gene_Inari said:

Show me an average player doing what you do. You are the exception, not the norm. Just because you make a DD work in an Op doesn't mean they're still not an objectively terrible choice in almost all situations.

^^^

"Hi I'm better than average and I CAN do well in said ship therefore you are wrong"

There's always someone that just doesn't get the point, someone that can't distinguish between a general observation/statement and the exception. I'm sure somewhere someone has a good game in every DD, doesn't mean it's not a wasted spot IN GENERAL.

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20 minutes ago, Gene_Inari said:

Show me an average player doing what you do. You are the exception, not the norm. Just because you make a DD work in an Op doesn't mean they're still not an objectively terrible choice in almost all situations.

 

9 minutes ago, HeathenForay said:

^^^

"Hi I'm better than average and I CAN do well in said ship therefore you are wrong"

There's always someone that just doesn't get the point, someone that can't distinguish between a general observation/statement and the exception. I'm sure somewhere someone has a good game in every DD, doesn't mean it's not a wasted spot IN GENERAL.

Just go to the WoWs Stats pages and find the DD that has comparable survival/damage chance as a Cruiser and Battleship - numbers don't lie, thousands of games don't lie - when you find it, that will be the destroyer that will give you comparable chance. (Or just find the DD you do as well with as your CAs and BBs) Easy!

Edited by _WaveRider_

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9 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Just go to the WoWs Stats pages and find the DD that has comparable survival/damage chance as a Cruiser and Battleship - numbers don't lie, thousands of games don't lie - when you find it, that will be the destroyer that will give you comparable chance. (Or just find the DD you do as well with as your CAs and BBs) Easy!

Good, now just put them in my game when I'm queued for an Op solo at 1AM.

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1 hour ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I keep hoping that will come back into the rotation.  I suppose they need to figure out a way to make the ships we played in it accessible again, or to provide suitable proxies.

They could reconfigure Dunkirk as a tier 5 DD's only operation, though with all those planes, I'm not sure that tier 5 DDs have enough anti-air capability to be useful.  For that matter, there are some fine tier 5 DDs that might just not be suitable for Dunkirk due to a severe lack of AA and dependence on torpedoes, when Dunkirk is, as I recall, all about air strikes and PT boats.  Seems like that would favor gunboat DDs pretty heavily.

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lc0A9kn.jpg

 

Here is something you will just have to do:

 

tenor.gif

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1 minute ago, Gene_Inari said:

Good, now just put them in my game when I'm queued for an Op solo at 1AM.

Oh dear, tantrum time(?)

I'm afraid I can't make the exact ships you feel are good enough for Operations be available to join your team, at the time you want. Maybe if you send a ticket to support they can help? Otherwise, this may not be the game for you.

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1 hour ago, Gene_Inari said:

Literally in every single Operation, a DD is a wasted slot

It depends on how that DD is played. I've had success in some DDs in operations when rather than trying to do damage, where you can't really contribute much, you instead do scouting, providing smoke for squishy cruisers so that they can DPM as much as they want. Also I was very sad when they removed T5 ships from Ops, because Kamikaze, for example, with TAE has some quite mad torp DPM and can actually contribute a lot. In Killer Whale, Gallant proved to be very useful with her single-launch torps that you can use to quickly dispatch both the CV and Kaiser in the port. US DDs with their smoke are great help in Aegis.

 

So you really need to think how useful a particular DD can be in a particular operation and if you pick correctly, it won't be a wasted slot.

And to be fair certain cruisers in certain OPs can also be a waste of a slot, not so much for BBs. 

Edited by geser98

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59 minutes ago, Gene_Inari said:

Show me an average player doing what you do. You are the exception, not the norm. Just because you make a DD work in an Op doesn't mean they're still not an objectively terrible choice in almost all situations.

You don't need a destroyer expert to do well in one. I informally run an operations division most nights and I have coached my division mates on running destroyers in operations as well. Most of them have taken turns using destroyers in Aegis and Killer Whale and done well. I want to especially point out one screenshot in my Imgur album.

https://imgur.com/NwJTbf3
That screenshot is from one Aegis game using my strategy to purposely spawn battleships, which we actually use two destroyers for as it is necessary and two of my division mates ran the destroyers, not myself and both of them are top of the board. Any competent captain who knows their ship with a little coaching can do well in operations with destroyers, not just expert destroyer players.

49 minutes ago, HeathenForay said:

^^^

"Hi I'm better than average and I CAN do well in said ship therefore you are wrong"

There's always someone that just doesn't get the point, someone that can't distinguish between a general observation/statement and the exception. I'm sure somewhere someone has a good game in every DD, doesn't mean it's not a wasted spot IN GENERAL.

Any ship type can be a waste of a slot, whether destroyer, cruiser, or battleship when it is run by a player who isn't the greatest at the game, not just destroyers. Destroyers are just the most noticeable as they are the ship type run the least in operations and the skill floor is higher for that ship type making it the easiest to mess up in. And I can tell you myself and easily a couple other people if not more in my operations division can do consistently well with destroyers in operations. It's really not hard to find people who can.


On another note, anyone who is interested in running with a division for operations rather than playing solo is welcome to send me a message. We can easily get 4-5 people basically every night, and often will have 6-7 or more allowing switch operations to whatever we feeling like running if we don't want to run the operation of the week.

Edited by Lightninger
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2 hours ago, Lightninger said:

A Ship is only bad in operations if two things are true:

1) The person playing the Ship is not good at it.
2) Certain Ship are not necessarily optimal or outright not good.

 

Edited to clarify how i feel about it overall ~ seen some terrible Battleships recently. 

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2 hours ago, Gene_Inari said:

Good, now just put them in my game when I'm queued for an Op solo at 1AM.

If 1:00am  is your time slot; you get whoever else is on at 1:00am. 

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