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BullHalsey

Normandie vs Ishizuchi

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Which wins?  I'd like to try it and am not sure the T6 is an automatic shoe in 1v1.  What I will say is that after playing it a bit, Normandie plays a whole lot like the Zuchi, tier for tier.  Poor AP performance at range so you HE till 10km, battlecruiser level armor, lots of guns shotgun style, essentially useless AA, good speed and fairly effective secondaries when point blank.

Name it whatever and fly any flag over it, once I started playing the thing exactly as the Ishizuchi I immediately began doing a whole lot better in it.  Not only that, I would not feel intimidated or overmatched at all going up against one in the Zuchi.

There's also nothing quite like firing a full AP broadside at a fully broadside Hipper 12.5km away and landing 5 hits for a total of 950 damage, and breaking three of the shells.  Normandie may be the most all or nothing big gun platform I've played in the game.  Definitely a BC not a BB at T6.

Edited by BullHalsey

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In Co-op at least I love the heck out of Normandie. Full secondary, angle in, then let the wine drunken gunners go to work.

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1 minute ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

In Co-op at least I love the heck out of Normandie. Full secondary, angle in, then let the wine drunken gunners go to work.

One reason I miss the old training room; I'd run the Zuchi against a decent player.  For certain it wouldn't be any kind of automatic blowout.  Not at all.  Bow in deathmatch style would be a challenge; longer range HE spamming?  Probably more down to RNG and dodging/shooting skill.

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Ishizuchi with adrenaline rush is the closest I come to seal clubbing these days. Over a thousand matches in it. Other that my Atlanta, I have more DD kills in Ishizuchi than any other ship. That HE with it's fast reload just wreaks the hell out of them & players at that level are not used to a BB hunting them down...

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Assuming the scenario wasn't brought up rhetorically, it's an interesting exercise. 

Normandie has an AP alpha advantage, but inferior HE (both alpha and fire chance) and ROF. 

Ishi does have an armor and gun caliber disadvantage.  Normandie should expect to be able to bounce a lot of Ishizuchi's 305mm AP when properly angled.  Normandie will take it on the nose from the HE (5,200 max dmg/32% fire chance) but should be able to mitigate fire damage pretty well.

Neither can expect a reliably high volume of hits per salvo at ranges above (what?) 12km?

When it comes to maneuver, I think Normandie wins.  Higher top speed, plus a 2.7 km advantage in gun range means Normandie can shoot Ishizuchi at will without fear of return fire for at least a portion of the battle.  In the one on one, vision mechanics are going to guarantee the Ishi gets to fire some shots, but if the Normandie is not down for the brawl, he'll never get good short range shots.  At most he'll get a few 14 ~ 15 km shots at the Normandie's broadside turning in or out to dictate range, and those will be far between.

Normandie just has to keep the Ishizuchi in visual contact and make contact with AP rounds until the battle is over.

This is all comparing the full Normandie upgrade with the Ishizuchi base ship stats - not accounting for upgrade modules or captain skills.

Does that sound right?  I mean, I have Ishizuchi, but only 19 battles and I use my IJN BB captain, currently on the Nagato. 

I don't have Normandie yet. 

Bretagne is currently treating my win rate like medieval barbarian hordes used to treat walled cities.  Gates in ruins.  Buildings burning.  I look up my stats on na.wows-numbers, and it plays YouTube video from Braveheart...

  • Cool 1

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10 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

Assuming the scenario wasn't brought up rhetorically, it's an interesting exercise. 

Normandie has an AP alpha advantage, but inferior HE (both alpha and fire chance) and ROF. 

Ishi does have an armor and gun caliber disadvantage.  Normandie should expect to be able to bounce a lot of Ishizuchi's 305mm AP when properly angled.  Normandie will take it on the nose from the HE (5,200 max dmg/32% fire chance) but should be able to mitigate fire damage pretty well.

Neither can expect a reliably high volume of hits per salvo at ranges above (what?) 12km?

When it comes to maneuver, I think Normandie wins.  Higher top speed, plus a 2.7 km advantage in gun range means Normandie can shoot Ishizuchi at will without fear of return fire for at least a portion of the battle.  In the one on one, vision mechanics are going to guarantee the Ishi gets to fire some shots, but if the Normandie is not down for the brawl, he'll never get good short range shots.  At most he'll get a few 14 ~ 15 km shots at the Normandie's broadside turning in or out to dictate range, and those will be far between.

Normandie just has to keep the Ishizuchi in visual contact and make contact with AP rounds until the battle is over.

This is all comparing the full Normandie upgrade with the Ishizuchi base ship stats - not accounting for upgrade modules or captain skills.

Does that sound right?  I mean, I have Ishizuchi, but only 19 battles and I use my IJN BB captain, currently on the Nagato. 

I don't have Normandie yet. 

Bretagne is currently treating my win rate like medieval barbarian hordes used to treat walled cities.  Gates in ruins.  Buildings burning.  I look up my stats on na.wows-numbers, and it plays YouTube video from Braveheart...

Heh, check my WR in Bretagne.  Free XPd the last 8k of it.  My performance in that one gives me *cough something to shoot for yet in Normandie.

And yeah it was a fairly serious proposition.  Sure, I posted this thread mostly for fun but am also serious enough that I would readily take on anyone in a Normandie with a Zuchi.

**Have to admit though, I forgot Zuchi is a 12".  Something in my head keeps saying 14.  Still, with good angling and dodging it wouldn't bother me to try it out.  What's Normandie, 13.4, 13.8?  Still not a 14".  

Edited by BullHalsey

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59 minutes ago, bigalow87 said:

Ishizuchi with adrenaline rush is the closest I come to seal clubbing these days. Over a thousand matches in it. Other that my Atlanta, I have more DD kills in Ishizuchi than any other ship. That HE with it's fast reload just wreaks the hell out of them & players at that level are not used to a BB hunting them down...

South Carolina does that for me. Suddenly turning on a chasing destroyer or light cruiser and giving them a face full of pain.

Many players think a lone, running So C is just free lunch they just have to catch...

...until they get taught otherwise. :cap_haloween:

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9 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

South Carolina does that for me. Suddenly turning on a chasing destroyer or light cruiser and giving them a face full of pain.

Many players think a lone, running So C is just free lunch they just have to catch...

...until they get taught otherwise. :cap_haloween:

One SC match I had long ago I still remember, would have made a great video.  I was at the base of that side cap which is isolated and always a death battle, I can't recall map names.  

Anyhow, spent a good amount of time spinning around there behind the island, taking out every ship that came out after me, one by one.  Last was a DD, and after I blasted him in the face he cried in chat that I was a coward for hiding, etc the usual.  Hilarious.  My only response was something to the effect that you expect a South Carolina to be an easy autokill and it didn't work out for ya.

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1 hour ago, BullHalsey said:

Heh, check my WR in Bretagne.  Free XPd the last 8k of it.  My performance in that one gives me *cough something to shoot for yet in Normandie.

I loved my Bretagne and I loved CV drivers not realising how good her AA is and getting their planes shredded. Actually I have the highest plane kills per game in Bretagne.

3 hours ago, BullHalsey said:

Which wins?

Well, I haven't played Zucchini since before concealment changes, when playing her was a bit of struggle. Should be easier now. But still I'd go for the baguette. Normandie is love, Normandie is life :cap_rambo:

Zucchini has crappy armor, has to give lot of broadside to fire all but two front turrets, while the Frenchie can point 8 guns on target while staying well angled. Normandie is faster, much more maneuverable, has larger gun caliber and can *cough* use *cough* HE to some decent results. My bet is that Ishizuchi would be dead, while Normandie would either get some very light damage or plenty of repairable fire damage. 

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I haven't noticed Normandie's AP being weak at all...

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Just now, MrDeaf said:

I haven't noticed Normandie's AP being weak at all...

Agree, I found it delivered odd angle citadels more frequently than I’ve ever seen and is able to citadel fairly well at range 

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19 minutes ago, Visidious said:

Agree, I found it delivered odd angle citadels more frequently than I’ve ever seen and is able to citadel fairly well at range 

Being able to do such in many different ships seems to be a weird forte of mine...

Can’t seem to get reliable citadels against broadside targets to save my life; but Lord help the poor angled soul about to escape into cover behind some island.

Fired HE from an Ishi at some heavily angled Kuma about to do that...

...three citadels and a full pen and he just blew up.

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3 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

I haven't noticed Normandie's AP being weak at all...

I've done very well on my Normandie and AP citadels on cruisers are bread and butter, but with BBs citadels are rare thing with 340mm guns. I think I only got it twice on a fully broadside Fuso and ~13km. When I tested in training room I couldn't citadel an NC or Amagi from 11km. So AP is great against cruisers and does nice pen damage against BBs, but citadels on BBs are hard to come by.

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On 4/5/2018 at 10:42 PM, geser98 said:

I loved my Bretagne and I loved CV drivers not realising how good her AA is and getting their planes shredded. Actually I have the highest plane kills per game in Bretagne.

Well, I haven't played Zucchini since before concealment changes, when playing her was a bit of struggle. Should be easier now. But still I'd go for the baguette. Normandie is love, Normandie is life :cap_rambo:

Zucchini has crappy armor, has to give lot of broadside to fire all but two front turrets, while the Frenchie can point 8 guns on target while staying well angled. Normandie is faster, much more maneuverable, has larger gun caliber and can *cough* use *cough* HE to some decent results. My bet is that Ishizuchi would be dead, while Normandie would either get some very light damage or plenty of repairable fire damage. 

Cool...but Zuchi HE is great, in fact it is the primary ammo until you get close.  Same as Normandie.  And I can still turn a Zuchi fast enough to keep a Normandie firing HE.  Silly topic though, fair enough.  

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On 4/5/2018 at 8:17 PM, Estimated_Prophet said:

In Co-op at least I love the heck out of Normandie. Full secondary, angle in, then let the wine drunken gunners go to work.

lol

quadruple-gun turrets can get addictive. I love the Lyon for that. 16-gun broadside--what's not to like?

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