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Plaatduutsch

Stats Showing T-61 is Performing As It Should

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Ship Name     Tier                WR          Survival     Avg Dmg  dmg/BB                                            Avg Destruction  Avg xp

Shinonome 6   1 54.96%   35%   29829 19660 4529 810 4948 172 6823 22833 0.83 0 900

 

Anshan

                       6   1 50.90%   29%   22108 12554 4200 697 4764 586 9657 11864 0.62 0.21 801

 

T-61 6   0 54.54%                29%   27146 16067 5046 754 5343 1125 7741 18279 0.77 0.15

878

 

Aigle 6   3 51.41%         26%       26553 15345 5359 822 5113 710 18163 7679 0.68 0.04 834

 

Gallant 6   1 52.99%   34%   24638 15628 3986 804 4311 204 7213 17219 0.71 0.01 832

 

Above are the aggregated stats from CN server of all T6 premium DDs. In case you don't know about it. The player number is about 5 times of the NA server, and this ship has been on sale since last year in Dec.

Those stats are statistically significant.

T-61 is a great ship to have, but not OP in any sense, just as I predicted. 

Previous Thread on my performance prediction:

"My thoughts:

I don't know why people would call it OP; I consider it a Gudship according to littlewhitemouse standard. It is not a Belfast or Pre-nerfed Kutozov! BB AP can still pen it hard. ie, Bayern AP damage on DD can be as high as 5580 per AP shell

Yes, the torp reload is better than that of Gaede, but 68s 8 torps isn't better than shinonome 73s 9 torps. Isn't it? And stats showing the damage to BB is only slightly above avg.(much lower than IJN shinonome in fact)

The hydro range isn't OP in any sense, same on Gaede. Not those ridiculous Loyang 5.43 km at tier 8

The hull makes it more nimble, but at the cost of lower health pool. 

The guns are good but not OP, The shinonome has 6 IJN guns with 9s reload, and the Gallant has 4 120mm guns with 5s reload. We all know that USN and Soviet DD still have the best gun. 

The concealment is good at the tier, but not the best either. In fact, IJN T6 has 5.8km, Gallant has 6.0km and Shinonome 6.1km

What I really believe is that Gallant needs some small buff, maybe 10% cut on torp reload to be on same tier with shinonome and T-61, because 8 torps with 96s reload is rather high for a DD that can't win knife fight with other DD. "

If WG allow Graf Zeppelin, a new premium ship that is so broken and OP, exist. I wonder why they keep this ship for so long?????

Edited by Plaatduutsch

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We need a good KMS premium, such as T-61. 

But we don't need a KMS premium that is as broken as Saipan. 

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36 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

T-61 is a great ship to have, but not OP in any sense, just as I predicted. 

How can you claim that a ship with 54.5% WR when the next-best 'normal' (i.e. not reward) premium competitor is at 53% and the range for the others is 51%-53% is not OP?

Your basic predication that damage to BB's is the only thing that matters doesn't hold true. Winning matters the most. XP matters a bit. Total damage matters a little bit. 'Damage/BB' matters very little if at all.

 

T-61 blends excellent stealth, maneuverability, decent gunpower, superb torpedo output and hydro with very good HP too. She trades very well with the sluggish Gaede on most points, out-guns and out-torpedoes most of the IJN destroyers and Gallant and really has very few if any drawbacks.

She can be balanced fairly easily with a more normal torpedo reload to start with and maybe a look at concealment otherwise.

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7 minutes ago, mofton said:

How can you claim that a ship with 54.5% WR when the next-best 'normal' (i.e. not reward) premium competitor is at 53% and the range for the others is 51%-53% is not OP?

Your basic predication that damage to BB's is the only thing that matters doesn't hold true. Winning matters the most. XP matters a bit. Total damage matters a little bit. 'Damage/BB' matters very little if at all.

 

T-61 blends excellent stealth, maneuverability, decent gunpower, superb torpedo output and hydro with very good HP too. She trades very well with the sluggish Gaede on most points, out-guns and out-torpedoes most of the IJN destroyers and Gallant and really has very few if any drawbacks.

She can be balanced fairly easily with a more normal torpedo reload to start with and maybe a look at concealment otherwise.

Do you consider Gaede a good boat? Gaede has the highest win rate among T6 non Premium DDs. The WR is like 52%-53%, but I don’t like Gaede at all, and I believe many people believe the same. 

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22 minutes ago, mofton said:

How can you claim that a ship with 54.5% WR when the next-best 'normal' (i.e. not reward) premium competitor is at 53% and the range for the others is 51%-53% is not OP?

Your basic predication that damage to BB's is the only thing that matters doesn't hold true. Winning matters the most. XP matters a bit. Total damage matters a little bit. 'Damage/BB' matters very little if at all.

 

T-61 blends excellent stealth, maneuverability, decent gunpower, superb torpedo output and hydro with very good HP too. She trades very well with the sluggish Gaede on most points, out-guns and out-torpedoes most of the IJN destroyers and Gallant and really has very few if any drawbacks.

She can be balanced fairly easily with a more normal torpedo reload to start with and maybe a look at concealment otherwise.

T-61 is a excellent boat, but its xp and damage are within reasonable range. I am not sure how it have a 2% WR lead, but when you look at Belfast, she does exceptionally well among all three factors: Xp, damage, and WR. This ship only excels at WR. I believe the other reason is that IJN Silver DD at T6 is trash. Fabuki has 46% WR. In addition, all other premium DD has been available for at least a year, and this one only 3 months. Time may flatten her WR over time. In addition, just to give you a basic idea. Arizona and Graf Spee has around 54.5% WR. Do anybody find them OP?:Smile_playing:

 

Edited by Plaatduutsch

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The main problem with the T-61 is that it's a straight upgrade on the Gaede apart from HP, which most reasonable people would happily trade for: better gun reload, much better concealment, better handling, much better torp reload etc...

The Shino isn't OP because its effective DPM - how much it can actually put on a target in a fight - is rather low due to the gun traverse and reload, which only gets worse if you try to cut down the traverse. It also doesn't have hydro, which is a big gamechanger if you know how to use it. It has good server stats due to the crowd that uses it being exclusively experienced players. 

Vs the Shino the T-61 gains: Hydro, HP, handling, German AP, torp speed, 20 RPM more out of the guns, better gun handling, 2.6km gun range etc... All in exchange for 1 torp and a little torp alpha. It's just a much better ship. 

 

Edited by harikari25
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9 minutes ago, harikari25 said:

The main problem with the T-61 is that it's a straight upgrade on the Gaede apart from HP, which most reasonable people would happily trade for: better gun reload, much better concealment, better handling, much better torp reload etc...

The Shino isn't OP because its effective DPM - how much it can actually put on a target in a fight - is rather low due to the gun traverse and reload, which only gets worse if you try to cut down the traverse. It also doesn't have hydro, which is a big gamechanger if you know how to use it. It has good server stats due to the crowd that uses it being exclusively experienced players. 

Vs the Shino the T-61 gains: Hydro, HP, handling, German AP, torp speed, 20 RPM more out of the guns, better gun handling, 2.6km gun range etc... All in exchange for 1 torp and a little torp alpha. It's just a much better ship. 

 

The German AP is not a strength at this tier. 

You would find it overpen DDs 90% of the time against DD at this tier. 

Overpen AP and trash German HE are not really good guns to have IMHO.

I have shinonome. My only complain is her handing. I don’t like to play that ship but I do well in that ship (65% WR)

Just to give you my guess: I actually prefer guns on Shinonome  and torps on T-61 in contrast to your idea.

Edited by Plaatduutsch

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13 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Just to give you my guess: I actually prefer guns on Shinonome  and torps on T-61 in contrast to your idea.

I'm not sure how you're serious when it comes to preferring Shino guns over any other decent gunboat, including T-61. The HE alpha is 300 lower but in exchange you gain significantly more range, significantly more total shots per minute, and significantly better handling. With the HP advantage, handling (both guns and turning) advantage, and hydro I'd put money on the T-61 8 or 9 times out of 10 vs a Shino in a brawl. The traverse on the Shino means you usually have to spend an uncomfortable amount of time on a given line (usually broadside) to keep guns on target. If you want to use EM then you are losing points the T-61 doesn't have to give up to be comfortable. The rate of fire only gets worse if you put on the traverse mod. 4x1 with a higher rof, better range, and better traverse is simply better in most situations a DD will be shooting. 

Edited by harikari25

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10 minutes ago, harikari25 said:

I'm not sure how you're serious when it comes to preferring Shino guns over any other decent gunboat, including T-61. The HE alpha is 300 lower but in exchange you gain significantly more range, significantly more total shots per minute, and significantly better handling. With the HP advantage, handling (both guns and turning) advantage, and hydro I'd put money on the T-61 8 or 9 times out of 10 vs a Shino in a brawl. The traverse on the Shino means you usually have to spend an uncomfortable amount of time on a given line (usually broadside) to keep guns on target. If you want to use EM then you are losing points the T-61 doesn't have to give up to be comfortable. The rate of fire only gets worse if you put on the traverse mod. 4x1 with a higher rof, better range, and better traverse is simply better in most situations a DD will be shooting. 

I do use EM on my Shinonome, but they are not at expense at other valuable pts. Yes, you lose some DPM, but IJN shots are accurate and fast, which I find very comfortable to use. If you have to insist on a gun dual between T61 and Shino, I just want to point out that T61 is unlikely to win a kiting Shino, and a good T61 would not want to chase a Shino.  In addition, I consider neither T61 nor Shino a gunboat. And seriously, why should two torp boats brawl?

Edited by Plaatduutsch

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6 minutes ago, harikari25 said:

Vs the Shino the T-61 gains: Hydro, HP, handling, German AP, torp speed, 20 RPM more out of the guns, better gun handling, 2.6km gun range etc... All in exchange for 1 torp and a little torp alpha. It's just a much better ship. 

Very true. In addition T-61's torpedoes have 1.3km concealment vs. the 1.6km of the Shinonome's fish - a significant reaction time change.

10 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Overpen AP and trash German HE are not really good guns to have IMHO.

Even if you ignore and never use the AP, the T-61 still generates 90,000 HE DPM.

In comparison the Fubuki has 54,000 HE DPM and the Shinonome has 72,360 HE DPM - for all that T-61 has 'weak' HE she still does very well there. Gallant has 81,600 HE DPM so is still significantly weaker off too.

In exchange for having better HE DPM than all the torpedo-centric ships at T6 she also gets better traverse at 10'/s than the 6.9'/s of Fubuki or 6.0'/s of Shinonome.

They might not be amazing, but they're far from bad overall and entirely competitive. The AP may not be the best anti-destroyer but does have value farming broadsides on bigger targets.

 

32 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Do you consider Gaede a good boat? Gaede has the highest win rate among T6 non Premium DDs. The WR is like 52%-53%, but I don’t like Gaede at all, and I believe many people believe the same. 

Yes, I think she's good and the stats agree she's very solid. Coming in significantly better than that and significantly better than all the normal premiums is also a decent sign of an OP ship. That in combination with my analysis of her stats screams OP to me, especially when one of her stats (torpedo reload) differs so greatly from the norm.

28 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

T-61 is a excellent boat, but its xp and damage are within reasonable range. I am not sure how it have a 2% WR lead, but when you look at Belfast, she does exceptionally well among all three factors: Xp, damage, and WR. This ship only excels at WR. I believe the other reason is that IJN Silver DD at T6 is trash. Fabuki has 46% WR. 

Your confident that she's not OP but you can't explain the 2% stats lead?

WR is by far the most important stat. XP varies depending on how the ship acts and XP doesn't truly represent efficiency in battle either. I believe some stats sites struggle to remove the effect of premium from XP too. 878 XP is also significantly better than the 801-834 XP of her T6 premium DD competitors.

Damage is very low value as a metric, not all damage is equal. Doing 10k to a destroyer is worth doing 40k to a battleship. If T-61 is using her hydro to beat up destroyers early game that's more of an impact than the odd torpedo hit on a battleship late game. The T-61 on those stats still does solidly better than the Anshan, Aigle and Gallant.

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1 minute ago, mofton said:

Very true. In addition T-61's torpedoes have 1.3km concealment vs. the 1.6km of the Shinonome's fish - a significant reaction time change.

Even if you ignore and never use the AP, the T-61 still generates 90,000 HE DPM.

In comparison the Fubuki has 54,000 HE DPM and the Shinonome has 72,360 HE DPM - for all that T-61 has 'weak' HE she still does very well there. Gallant has 81,600 HE DPM so is still significantly weaker off too.

In exchange for having better HE DPM than all the torpedo-centric ships at T6 she also gets better traverse at 10'/s than the 6.9'/s of Fubuki or 6.0'/s of Shinonome.

They might not be amazing, but they're far from bad overall and entirely competitive. The AP may not be the best anti-destroyer but does have value farming broadsides on bigger targets.

 

Yes, I think she's good and the stats agree she's very solid. Coming in significantly better than that and significantly better than all the normal premiums is also a decent sign of an OP ship. That in combination with my analysis of her stats screams OP to me, especially when one of her stats (torpedo reload) differs so greatly from the norm.

Your confident that she's not OP but you can't explain the 2% stats lead?

WR is by far the most important stat. XP varies depending on how the ship acts and XP doesn't truly represent efficiency in battle either. I believe some stats sites struggle to remove the effect of premium from XP too. 878 XP is also significantly better than the 801-834 XP of her T6 premium DD competitors.

Damage is very low value as a metric, not all damage is equal. Doing 10k to a destroyer is worth doing 40k to a battleship. If T-61 is using her hydro to beat up destroyers early game that's more of an impact than the odd torpedo hit on a battleship late game. The T-61 on those stats still does solidly better than the Anshan, Aigle and Gallant.

As I stated earlier 

“Arizona and Graf Spee has around 54.5% WR. Do anybody find them OP?”

not sure why did you miss this part when quoting 

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Just now, Plaatduutsch said:

I do use EM on my Shinonome, but they are not at expense at other valuable pts. Yes, you lose some DPM, but IJN shots are accurate and fast, which I find very comfortable to use. If you have to insist on a gun dual between T61 and Shino, I just want to point out that T61 is unlikely to win a kiting Shino, and a good T61 would not want to chase a Shino. In addition, I consider neither T61 nor Shino a gunboat. 

Every DD is favored in a fight if they are the one kiting. That the Shino can also magically do this is not a mark in its favor. If you spec into EM in the Shino, you have to give up something valuable like RPF. If you do the standard torp DD build of PM, AR, LS, SE, Torp Reload, CE, you will be left with 2 points after EM with nothing particularly useful to spend it on. The T-61 doesn't have to do this. Taking off any of the standard build skills only widens the T-61's lead. 

The Shino is not a bad ship but the T-61, as it currently stands, is better in every way and by a good amount. They should just give it the Gaede torp reload and go from there. 

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1 minute ago, harikari25 said:

Every DD is favored in a fight if they are the one kiting. That the Shino can also magically do this is not a mark in its favor. If you spec into EM in the Shino, you have to give up something valuable like RPF. If you do the standard torp DD build of PM, AR, LS, SE, Torp Reload, CE, you will be left with 2 points after EM with nothing particularly useful to spend it on. The T-61 doesn't have to do this. Taking off any of the standard build skills only widens the T-61's lead. 

The Shino is not a bad ship but the T-61, as it currently stands, is better in every way and by a good amount. They should just give it the Gaede torp reload and go from there. 

Yes, kiting is the favored one, but Shino is a better kitter due to its AXY turets setup. 

Additionally. Geade needs no buff. If you look at torp reload, the Gallant with 96 sec reload should be buffed first. If you look at WR, trash IJN T6 silvers should be buffed first (I once liked T8 Fubuki so much until WG butchered it). 

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7 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

As I stated earlier 

“Arizona and Graf Spee has around 54.5% WR. Do anybody find them OP?”

not sure why did you miss this part when quoting 

Did you edit that after I'd read it?

As for Arizona, yes I think she is on the OP side. She gives up far too little to New Mexico in exchange for a huge jump up in sigma - 1.8 vs. 1.5. is huge, the downside is mostly AA which doesn't apply when carriers are scarce.

Graf Spee may be a bit overtuned, it's somewhat hard to tell though her 2-week stats are more like 53.7% with Huanghe up there at 56.6%(!). I suspect that AGS is a decent premium, a bit too good perhaps but also has somewhat of a selection pressure having been given out in a Christmas competition which required fairly intensive play.

 

One of your general thoughts seems to be 'If X is OP it's ok that Y be OP' which is not sensible. Belfast was a terrible mistake, is very OP and has been removed. You can be less OP than Belfast and remain very OP. It is not a good thing to knowingly add OP boats if they can reasonably be balanced, that is generating P2W which is not good for the game.

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3 minutes ago, Plaatduutsch said:

I once liked T8 Fubuki so much until WG butchered it

Fubuki was hands down the most OP ship in the game...shame I only got a handful of games in it before the switch. I'm sure a lot of peoples high stats are still held by it.

Note: Kitikami was before my time...it probably took the OP title by far but w/the new TK penalty setup it would have probably gotten anybody that ran it banned in todays meta.

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38 minutes ago, mofton said:

Your confident that she's not OP but you can't explain the 2% stats lead?

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'm curious how you can claim that one more victory out of 50 battles indicates that a ship is OP?  2% is a number I would characterize with the word 'marginal'.

24 minutes ago, mofton said:

As for Arizona, yes I think she is on the OP side.

I would disagree with you here.  Arizona is just 'P'.  Not OP, not UP.  Just P.

But then I'm a much more average player than you are.

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2 hours ago, mofton said:

Did you edit that after I'd read it?

As for Arizona, yes I think she is on the OP side. She gives up far too little to New Mexico in exchange for a huge jump up in sigma - 1.8 vs. 1.5. is huge, the downside is mostly AA which doesn't apply when carriers are scarce.

Graf Spee may be a bit overtuned, it's somewhat hard to tell though her 2-week stats are more like 53.7% with Huanghe up there at 56.6%(!). I suspect that AGS is a decent premium, a bit too good perhaps but also has somewhat of a selection pressure having been given out in a Christmas competition which required fairly intensive play.

 

One of your general thoughts seems to be 'If X is OP it's ok that Y be OP' which is not sensible. Belfast was a terrible mistake, is very OP and has been removed. You can be less OP than Belfast and remain very OP. It is not a good thing to knowingly add OP boats if they can reasonably be balanced, that is generating P2W which is not good for the game.

That post was edited---yes! but it was edited 25 min before your reply

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2 hours ago, mofton said:

Did you edit that after I'd read it?

As for Arizona, yes I think she is on the OP side. She gives up far too little to New Mexico in exchange for a huge jump up in sigma - 1.8 vs. 1.5. is huge, the downside is mostly AA which doesn't apply when carriers are scarce.

Graf Spee may be a bit overtuned, it's somewhat hard to tell though her 2-week stats are more like 53.7% with Huanghe up there at 56.6%(!). I suspect that AGS is a decent premium, a bit too good perhaps but also has somewhat of a selection pressure having been given out in a Christmas competition which required fairly intensive play.

 

One of your general thoughts seems to be 'If X is OP it's ok that Y be OP' which is not sensible. Belfast was a terrible mistake, is very OP and has been removed. You can be less OP than Belfast and remain very OP. It is not a good thing to knowingly add OP boats if they can reasonably be balanced, that is generating P2W which is not good for the game.

So, a ship that was determined to be garbage by most reviewers (flamu, LWT, lert, etc) has 56.6% WR. Okay, does this WR suddenly make that ship great??? Just to give you a basic idea. My WR in Huanghe is 61.25% over 80+ battles, but I sitll consider it a garbage boat. 

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2 hours ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Do you consider Gaede a good boat? Gaede has the highest win rate among T6 non Premium DDs. The WR is like 52%-53%, but I don’t like Gaede at all, and I believe many people believe the same. 

Ernst Gaede is a good boat, but not every ship fits every player.  IMHO, WR alone is a poor gauge of how good a ship is or isn't, but in all honesty, I rarely see one that is well driven.   

Most people play her then move on.  In the top 100 in NA, there are only 4 of us (hidden stats players not included) that have over 100 games, with most players in the 30-50 game range.  

As it relates to T-61, I don't know a lot about her (other than I want it), but I think the sample size is far too low to say she is or isn't OP. 

Everything averages out over time.  If you put a pro in a tub, the pro can (and likely will) make it shine.  Give a not-so-pro player the same tub, and they may do ok, or be a complete spud, who knows.

At the end of the day, we only have a privileged few who really know how she performs, but they are only a few compared to the entire game population.  I respect them as players and contributors, but take their words with a grain of salt, and just wait and see (assuming it does eventually get released).

My 2 cents.

B

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5 minutes ago, bassmasta76 said:

Ernst Gaede is a good boat, but not every ship fits every player.  IMHO, WR alone is a poor gauge of how good a ship is or isn't, but in all honesty, I rarely see one that is well driven.   

Most people play her then move on.  In the top 100 in NA, there are only 4 of us (hidden stats players not included) that have over 100 games, with most players in the 30-50 game range.  

As it relates to T-61, I don't know a lot about her (other than I want it), but I think the sample size is far too low to say she is or isn't OP. 

Everything averages out over time.  If you put a pro in a tub, the pro can (and likely will) make it shine.  Give a not-so-pro player the same tub, and they may do ok, or be a complete spud, who knows.

At the end of the day, we only have a privileged few who really know how she performs, but they are only a few compared to the entire game population.  I respect them as players and contributors, but take their words with a grain of salt, and just wait and see (assuming it does eventually get released).

My 2 cents.

B

Those stats are from the general player base from another server.  

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4 hours ago, Fishrokk said:

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'm curious how you can claim that one more victory out of 50 battles indicates that a ship is OP?  2% is a number I would characterize with the word 'marginal'.

I would disagree with you here.  Arizona is just 'P'.  Not OP, not UP.  Just P.

But then I'm a much more average player than you are.

In absolute terms you're right, 2% isn't much at all.

But WOWS tends strongly to bring all stats towards 50%. In most cases one ship can only contribute 1/12 of the margin to victory. If you have 12 50% WR ships vs. 11 50% and 1 55% the average WR on that side is just 50.4%l In many games with a specific premium ship even if it's stronger than average it may not swing the match, and if there are equal numbers of the ship on each side it will strongly trend towards 50% - any match with 2 of the same ship on each side will generate 4 games at an average 50% WR for instance.

If you look at a well balanced bracket - T10 cruisers - the split between the best and worst WR is only 1.7%. When you're looking at a ship 2% better than the next best premium ship and at 54.5% vs. 48-49% for some ships that's a big shift.

2 hours ago, Plaatduutsch said:

That post was edited---yes! but it was edited 25 min before your reply

Sorry about that, I think I took a while to respond after starting.

2 hours ago, Plaatduutsch said:

So, a ship that was determined to be garbage by most reviewers (flamu, LWT, lert, etc) has 56.6% WR. Okay, does this WR suddenly make that ship great??? Just to give you a basic idea. My WR in Huanghe is 61.25% over 80+ battles, but I sitll consider it a garbage boat. 

You seem to be taking the stance with this statement that stats are meaningless for determining whether a ship is any good. If that's true then your opening claim that you have stats 'proving' she's not OP seems flawed. Can stats tell either way?

My general reasons for believing ships are OP or not are:

  1. My appreciation of the stats - whereby T-61 looks hilariously too strong, being a good gunboat, torpedo boat, good handling, hydro and good concealment while sacrificing little
  2. General feedback - where LWM has inferred heavily that it was OP (the so OP as to be removed from sale Belfast, Kamikaze and Gremy each saying it's 'fine') http://shipcomrade.com/news/375/now-with-napoleon-and-dynamite.html
  3. Stats - few are available and premium stats are typically inflated but you've shown something with 1.5% to 3.5% better WR than any other 'normal' DD premium at that tier

There are definitely things that can throw stats out - overly good players are probably the ones playing Huanghe for a laugh. Arizona probably benefits from a lot of experienced USN BB players throwing a 19-pt captain in her, while Warspite, Dunkerque etc. are pretty niche. If you have Arizona, you've probably benefited from experience in New Mexico, less so the others.

All in all, while I'd be fine with the argument 'you can't tell from stats' the suggestion seems to me to be that she is hella OP stats-wise, and the supporting data hasn't changed either.

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Its average damage looks to be in-line. What's the problem? A high win rate? Big deal.

Edited by Lampshade_M1A2

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12 minutes ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Its average damage looks to be in-line. What's the problem? A high win rate? Big deal.

Arizona and Graf Spee has around 54.5% WR. Do anybody find them OP? Huanghe has 56.6% WR. Is it a big deal?

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What might be nice if the T-61 were eventually a permanent Campaign reward ship, should WG choose to add another permanent campaign (assuming they tweak whatever balance issues WG deems necessary).  In the near term, it ‘s looking like T-39 is the KM Premium that will be released, but a T-61 in balanced form may make a suitable reward for a higher Tier Campaign like the Shinonome.

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4 hours ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Those stats are from the general player base from another server.  

Fair enough.  I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure they are nowhere near those for ships in active service.  I stand by my statements.

1 hour ago, Plaatduutsch said:

Arizona and Graf Spee has around 54.5% WR. Do anybody find them OP? Huanghe has 56.6% WR. Is it a big deal?

If you are one of those that want everything to be equal, then I'm done.  Why does it matter so much if a ship has a higher WR?  

B

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