Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Belthorian

Scoring adjustments to help facilitate better play.

32 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,432
[OPGS]
Beta Testers
3,207 posts
5,669 battles

As a battleship player, I hear it all the time, people complaining about Battleships hanging out in the back, firing at max range and not playing the objective. I think I have figured out a way to correct that. On each map have range bands in relation to the Cap points. Each successive band further out from the cap the less damage experience points you are awarded. So if you are sitting at maximum range and simply trying to farm damage you will get almost no experience and credits at the end of the game. This will force my battleship brethren to partner up with their cruiser and destroyer teammates and push the objective. 

It may be overly complex but you could add in timers that measure time inside higher XP bands and allow for time outside of it before you go back to earning fewer experience points to allow ships to reposition without penalties.

 

It is just an idea, I do not know if it would work as intended. What do you think community?

 

This idea only applies to Battleships, not cruisers or CV's.

Edited by Belthorian
  • Cool 2
  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,269
[NERO]
Members
3,542 posts

Not a bad idea, but probably too superficially similar to epicenter for people to accept without a kneejerk reaction. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
242 posts
608 battles
16 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

As a battleship player, I hear it all the time, people complaining about Battleships hanging out in the back, firing at max range and not playing the objective. I think I have figured out a way to correct that. On each map have range bands in relation to the Cap points. Each successive band further out from the cap the less damage experience points you are awarded. So if you are sitting at maximum range and simply trying to farm damage you will get almost no experience and credits at the end of the game. This will force my battleship brethren to partner up with their cruiser and destroyer teammates and push the objective. 

It may be overly complex but you could add in timers that measure time inside higher XP bands and allow for time outside of it before you go back to earning fewer experience points to allow ships to reposition without penalties.

 

It is just an idea, I do not know if it would work as intended. What do you think community?

But this penalizes people who aren't close to the objective. Personally I don't want to penalize people far from the objective, there are scenarios where it may be good. I'd rather just reward those who are objective-centered. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
717
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,043 battles

BBs do hang in the back, but there's back and there's out back.

There's no reason for BBs not to move with cruisers.

 

BBs are the line infantry, cruisers and DDs are cavalries of various weight classes. The cavalries needs infantry support and without a solid line of muskets cavalry can't do anything to the enemies alone.

 

The idea of BBs is to get as close as you can, fix both the enemies as well your own teammates, then survive long enough to push the enemies back. Too many BBs make the mistake of only knowing W key and nothing else. Then after they die a few times make the wrong conclusion that cruisers and torps are OP, so they camp 25 km away. Advancing does not mean a one way yolo charge. Back does not mean literal edge of the map.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
456
[LUCK]
Members
1,276 posts
19,045 battles

Be aggressive and not stupid and the scoring will take care of itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,432
[OPGS]
Beta Testers
3,207 posts
5,669 battles
9 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

BBs do hang in the back, but there's back and there's out back.

There's no reason for BBs not to move with cruisers.

 

BBs are the line infantry, cruisers and DDs are cavalries of various weight classes. The cavalries needs infantry support and without a solid line of muskets cavalry can't do anything to the enemies alone.

 

The idea of BBs is to get as close as you can, fix both the enemies as well your own teammates, then survive long enough to push the enemies back. Too many BBs make the mistake of only knowing W key and nothing else. Then after they die a few times make the wrong conclusion that cruisers and torps are OP, so they camp 25 km away. Advancing does not mean a one way yolo charge. Back does not mean literal edge of the map.

 

I am a front line battleship player. I will partner with a DD and cruisers and push objectives. I get irritated when I see that Yammy sitting in the back the entire game, never moving, never plaything the objective. If you took away their ability to earn XP and credits than they would have no choice to play the objective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
258
[WOLF1]
Members
1,984 posts

that's bad idea, that basically is a nerf to IJN BBs, and a buff to german BBs

i think better idea is reward "potential damage", the more damage that comes your way,  the more xp/credit will be given to you, that's also very justified since you are tanking for the team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
81
[FARQD]
Members
305 posts
5,881 battles

People just forget that Cruisers do exist as a class when making "out of the box" suggestions. Some cruisers fare well in kiting positions and burning everything down from a good range. If they get close they are toast with BBs devastating them. Make sure you add a raider "only applicable to BBs" please. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,717
[ARGSY]
Members
5,794 posts
3,942 battles
3 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

i think better idea is reward "potential damage", the more damage that comes your way,  the more xp/credit will be given to you

Potential damage is already tracked in game, and I think the XP algorithm even includes it, so what you're asking here is for a buff to its weighting.

We currently get bonuses over time for having a cap in our possession and for hitting enemy ships which move inside it; perhaps they should consider bonuses for taking one in the first place, for taking a cap off the enemy, and penalties for LOSING one (in the same manner as we get points penalties for losing ships).

 

Also consider buffing XP gained for killing ships at closer distances, and perhaps a bonus or an award for killing an enemy ship when BOTH of you are inside the same cap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,584
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,294 battles
17 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I am a front line battleship player. I will partner with a DD and cruisers and push objectives. I get irritated when I see that Yammy sitting in the back the entire game, never moving, never plaything the objective. If you took away their ability to earn XP and credits than they would have no choice to play the objective.

And I get irritated by hyper-aggressive players trying to force me to play the way that THEY think people should play.  Mind you, I never play like that yammy you describe.  Heck, I saw a player in a Richelieu doing exactly what you're describing and it ticked me off.  I wanted him to get up closer,  and get into at least a reasonably moderate range, rather than sniping from the I and J lines.  However, I do NOT want any system in place that tries to force people to play the way that hyper-aggressive twits want people playing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,584
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,294 battles
16 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

that's bad idea, that basically is a nerf to IJN BBs, and a buff to german BBs

i think better idea is reward "potential damage", the more damage that comes your way,  the more xp/credit will be given to you, that's also very justified since you are tanking for the team

TERRIBLE IDEA!!!  "Tanking" is a totally bogus concept.  Complete and total male cow feces.  It is NOT the job of a battleship or any ship to "tank" damage.  It's your job to maximize the damage YOU do, while minimizing the damage you take.  But this does NOT mean that you sit back at 20 km and snipe.  It means that you find a good, productive range where your BBs guns are reasonably accurate and fight at that distance while working your armor to generate as many bounces as possible.

What I think might be a good idea is rather than potential damage, is a system that rewards the number of non-damaging hits you take, i.e. ricochets and shatters.   Something that recognizes that you're working your ship's armor, not just sitting out there playing the role of pin cushion or punching bag, that rewards you for near misses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,432
[OPGS]
Beta Testers
3,207 posts
5,669 battles
18 minutes ago, sansfaille said:

People just forget that Cruisers do exist as a class when making "out of the box" suggestions. Some cruisers fare well in kiting positions and burning everything down from a good range. If they get close they are toast with BBs devastating them. Make sure you add a raider "only applicable to BBs" please. 

Done

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
258
[WOLF1]
Members
1,984 posts
1 minute ago, Crucis said:

TERRIBLE IDEA!!!  "Tanking" is a totally bogus concept.  Complete and total male cow feces.  It is NOT the job of a battleship or any ship to "tank" damage.  It's your job to maximize the damage YOU do, while minimizing the damage you take.  But this does NOT mean that you sit back at 20 km and snipe.  It means that you find a good, productive range where your BBs guns are reasonably accurate and fight at that distance while working your armor to generate as many bounces as possible.

What I think might be a good idea is rather than potential damage, is a system that rewards the number of non-damaging hits you take, i.e. ricochets and shatters.   Something that recognizes that you're working your ship's armor, not just sitting out there playing the role of pin cushion or punching bag, that rewards you for near misses.

the enemy team won't sit idle, they will shoot either you or your teammate, unless you all hide out of gun ranges (in that case there will be no game), so reward the ship that is taking the hit, what's the problem with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,432
[OPGS]
Beta Testers
3,207 posts
5,669 battles
9 minutes ago, Crucis said:

And I get irritated by hyper-aggressive players trying to force me to play the way that THEY think people should play.  Mind you, I never play like that yammy you describe.  Heck, I saw a player in a Richelieu doing exactly what you're describing and it ticked me off.  I wanted him to get up closer,  and get into at least a reasonably moderate range, rather than sniping from the I and J lines.  However, I do NOT want any system in place that tries to force people to play the way that hyper-aggressive twits want people playing.

 

I do not go charging into a cap solo yolo guns blazing. A good example is on the Okinawa map my entire team lemming trained to C. I supported a lone DD pushing into A, we encountered four ships trying to push in. I did not go charging in, I stayed at about 12km away, angled and supported the DD with gunfire. We managed to repel the push into A and he capped it. We wound up winning the game for our team as the majority of the BB's were right at the border near C firing max range shots and being generally useless to the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,587
Members
17,785 posts
5,084 battles
27 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

that's bad idea, that basically is a nerf to IJN BBs, and a buff to german BBs

Yes, WoT has/had something similar, more XP/credits from hits at 200m or less. In the early days, it benefitted Russian tanks, who had KM BB dispersion, and hurt German tanks, who could reliably hit and pen at max visible distance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
258
[WOLF1]
Members
1,984 posts

also lots of battles are fought away from capping place, so making caps a magnet is not flexible

again, i recommend buff the "potential damage" reward, that's flexible, targeted reward that's justified

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,865
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
3,776 posts
12,891 battles
1 hour ago, Wye_So_Serious said:

Be aggressive and not stupid and the scoring will take care of itself.

^^^THIS^^^

I don't play for points...I play to WIN!!!!

 

Edited by Soshi_Sone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,584
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,294 battles
4 hours ago, Happy668 said:

the enemy team won't sit idle, they will shoot either you or your teammate, unless you all hide out of gun ranges (in that case there will be no game), so reward the ship that is taking the hit, what's the problem with that?

What's the problem?  I think that it's stupid to reward someone for playing the role of pin cushion, that's what.  You're rewarding him for just sitting there.  You're not  rewarding him for doing anything skillful, like angling his ship and bouncing shots and mitigating damage.  You're rewarding him for essentially being really stupid in my book, because a total noob could position himself broadside on to the enemy and take all those hits and get sunk, and yet you seem to think that he should be rewarded for this?  Seriously????  Such a player didn't do a bloody thing worth of reward.  He just parking his butt out there and begged to get sunk!!!  And that's very, very stupid and NOT worth of reward!!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,584
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,294 battles
4 hours ago, Belthorian said:

I do not go charging into a cap solo yolo guns blazing. A good example is on the Okinawa map my entire team lemming trained to C. I supported a lone DD pushing into A, we encountered four ships trying to push in. I did not go charging in, I stayed at about 12km away, angled and supported the DD with gunfire. We managed to repel the push into A and he capped it. We wound up winning the game for our team as the majority of the BB's were right at the border near C firing max range shots and being generally useless to the team.

I've don't similar things before, conducting a fighting withdrawal defense.  And yes, it can be very, very effective when you have a nice stealthy DD occasionally firing torps at the enemy who's trying to close on your BB, while your BB is hammering them.  It's a good combo that's only made better if you have a nice HE spamming cruiser to add some nice fires to the mix.

Still, I see no reason to award people for playing the pin cushion.  You did your job, and I expect that you did plenty of damage in that position if you were fighting off 4 ships and won the game.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
73
[SALTY]
Members
116 posts
4,214 battles

They just need to add damage tanked/potential damage and spotting ribbons into the game. I'm willing to bet an alarming percentage of players are unaware these things add to your score. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
258
[WOLF1]
Members
1,984 posts
1 minute ago, Crucis said:

What's the problem?  I think that it's stupid to reward someone for playing the role of pin cushion, that's what.  You're rewarding him for just sitting there.  You're not  rewarding him for doing anything skillful, like angling his ship and bouncing shots and mitigating damage.  You're rewarding him for essentially being really stupid in my book, because a total noob could position himself broadside on to the enemy and take all those hits and get sunk, and yet you seem to think that he should be rewarded for this?  Seriously????  Such a player didn't do a bloody thing worth of reward.  He just parking his butt out there and begged to get sunk!!!  And that's very, very stupid and NOT worth of reward!!!

 

lol, what are you talking about? when and where did i say he should sit there doing nothing? in case you don't know the "potential damage" is the shells going his way, he can still evade and avoid getting hit, but they still count as "potential damage", and since enemy are all shooting at him, instead of other team members, of course he should be rewarded, otherwise, everyone will just stay behind others so they don't get shoot at, that's what happens with current meta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,584
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,294 battles
8 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

lol, what are you talking about? when and where did i say he should sit there doing nothing? in case you don't know the "potential damage" is the shells going his way, he can still evade and avoid getting hit, but they still count as "potential damage", and since enemy are all shooting at him, instead of other team members, of course he should be rewarded, otherwise, everyone will just stay behind others so they don't get shoot at, that's what happens with current meta

I didn't say that you did.  What I was doing was taking the idea to the extreme to show how flawed it is.  Furthermore, the static, broadside pin cushion is still going to take "potential damage" as well as actual damage, since not every shell hits and does damage.  Therefore, my extreme example stands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
126 posts
303 battles

Seems as if the more skillfully a player angles and bounces shells and mitigates damage, the more potential damage he can tank. The more potential damage a ship takes, the more freedom (and survivability) his teammates will enjoy. The only time tanking is bad is when there aren’t any friendlies around to exploit the opportunities such tactics invariably create, and it is a tactic.

Also, this idea of rewarding potential damage doesn’t come at the expense of any other reward system, unless I’m completely misunderstanding, so why all the hyperbole?

Edited by kagero__
Too many t’s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
258
[WOLF1]
Members
1,984 posts
Just now, Crucis said:

I didn't say that you did.  What I was doing was taking the idea to the extreme to show how flawed it is.  Furthermore, the static, broadside pin cushion is still going to take "potential damage" as well as actual damage, since not every shell hits and does damage.  Therefore, my extreme example stands.

huh? enemy shoot 1million "potential damage" at me, i evade and get 0 damage, should i get rewarded? sure

if i don't evade and get 50k real damage, do i get punished? yes, because i will be sunk, but that doesn't reduce the "help" for the team of the 1million damage coming my way instead of on my team mate

what's the problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,584
[SALVO]
Members
16,618 posts
17,294 battles
3 minutes ago, kagero__ said:

Seems as if the more skillfully a player angles and bounces shells and mitigates damage, the more potential damage he can tank. The more potential damage a ship takes, the more freedom (and survivability) his teammates will enjoy. The only time tanking is bad is when there aren’t any friendliest around to exploit the opportunities such tactics invariably create, and it is a tactic.

Also, this idea of rewarding potential damage doesn’t come at the expense of any other reward system, unless I’m completely misunderstanding, so why all the hyperbole?

Potential damage includes near misses, and all hits (i.e. bounces, shatters, overpens, full pens, and citadels).  Therefore, there's no difference to "potential damage" whether it was a bounce or a citadel.  The resulting number is the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×