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Estimated_Prophet

Carriers and Ops... (yeah, a rant; sorry.)

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Wargamming; why don't you just come right out and say you don't want players using carriers in Operations; instead of loading them down with forts that have more AA firepower than an Atlanta; and so many DF cruisers (and the occasional Nicholas,) that it becomes nearly impossible to attack anything effectively WHEN IT NEEDS TO BE ATTACKED.

Oh? Bait out the DF and then attack? Such fun; strikes need to be maximized as much as possible because of the mobs; and I'm supposed to pray the DF cruisers get sunk, or screw around for nearly a minute doing nothing but watch my allies get shot up?

What's the point of the lower tier swarms, if you're going to load them up with a higher tier mechanic that nueters one of the ship-type choices available to players?

It's no wonder Newport seems harder; when a team's carrier (if they have one,) can't go smash outliers while they deal with the small swarms before they become big swarms, of course it would seem harder.

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Year of the Carrier confirmed!

Working as intended!

Will be fixed soon!

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You play the Op like Random only a bit differently. You still should not attack the AA ships, what you should do is try to learn the two or three variations of the operation so that you can position your bombers to snipe the enemy as soon as possible. This, along with scouting enemy DDs. That is what I believe the CV should do in battle, first strike capability.

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Carriers seem to be a balance nightmare, similar to Stealth in MMOs.  Push to far one way or the other, and the entire thing topples and makes CVs either too strong or too weak.

If the operations didn't have strong AA ships, carriers would chew them up pretty easily.  I agree at this point that its difficult to play a carrier in an op without feeling like you are a burden to your team, but it could be the other way around pretty easily too.  These are scripted bots after all.

 

(My opinion on CV balance, allow the CV to regenerate planes slowly lol...but I'm a newb and this probably would cause other issues)

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5 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

You play the Op like Random only a bit differently. You still should not attack the AA ships, what you should do is try to learn the two or three variations of the operation so that you can position your bombers to snipe the enemy as soon as possible. This, along with scouting enemy DDs. That is what I believe the CV should do in battle, first strike capability.

I CV mained in Ops before the DF became so prevailant, and would run around murdering things with impunity. (Maybe why WG did what they did with DF?)

Lots harder to do now because of all the DF.

Also; Independence cant afford to attack DF ships. Went in to attack an Aoba in Aegis just today and lost and entire torpedo squad, for just two hits.

Manual drop will force hits anyway; that's why I tried. The cost isn't worth the effort.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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2 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Carriers seem to be a balance nightmare, similar to Stealth in MMOs.  Push to far one way or the other, and the entire thing topples and makes CVs either too strong or too weak.

If the operations didn't have strong AA ships, carriers would chew them up pretty easily.  I agree at this point that its difficult to play a carrier in an op without feeling like you are a burden to your team, but it could be the other way around pretty easily too.  These are scripted bots after all.

(My opinion on CV balance, allow the CV to regenerate planes slowly lol...but I'm a newb and this probably would cause other issues)

Yeah, can't disagree with that first part; see my above post.

Most carriers did have spare planes; but I guess WGs way of representing that is just with hangar capacity.

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Is it worse than being a DD in Ops?

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4 minutes ago, mofton said:

Is it worse than being a DD in Ops?

lol

Not quite. Carriers have more options when it comes to avoiding getting seen; but they have to balance that versus strike times.

I've seen destroyers get swarmed and absolutely pulverized by the Operations bots; but I've also seen virtuoso destroyer drivers who seem immune to that; and who dance around trolling and sinking them with apparent ease.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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If you don't want to lose planes by the bucketful in Ops, drive a Cruiser or BB. Shells don't get shot down. :Smile_great:

Edited by ReddNekk

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I usually run CV's in Ops.

Key's are:

Know the op, know what spawns, when, and where.

Plan your strikes, almost every strike I launch has a target already chosen.

Know your targets, what ships you stay away from, what ships you just spot, and what ships you go after.

Know where you need to get your CV to, and autopilot there.

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I love it when a CV comes along and spots.  I hope he gets to kill a few, but, just spotting the DDs helps everyone a lot, and any planes he kills is less I have to deal with.  I bring Graf Spee to Ops a lot because it's fast, has torps, but it hits really hard, and isn't fragile.  I have a heal and can absorp a stray torp hit or two. and I usually bring Hydro instead of DFAA.

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1 hour ago, SgtBeltfed said:

I usually run CV's in Ops.

Key's are:

Know the op, know what spawns, when, and where.

Plan your strikes, almost every strike I launch has a target already chosen.

Know your targets, what ships you stay away from, what ships you just spot, and what ships you go after.

Know where you need to get your CV to, and autopilot there.

Killer Whale and Raptor are the two I have the least trouble with as a CV, but wind up losing because the bot destroyers don’t get killed.

Aegis used to be easy as well, until WG packed it full of DF.

Narai was a basket case. None of the teams I played it with ever seemed to know what they were doing. I can’t remember if I’ve ever even five started it.

Frontier was the first Op where I felt WG was telling CV drivers they could go (redacted) themselves, as far as they we’re concerned. I didn’t enjoy it until I read that a DD could run north and nuke that first Cleveland before it could even get on the map. Took my fastest DD, Sims, and proceeded to do just that, numerous times.

Newport was intense in all the good ways; and the only time I rammed an Izumo with a Ryujo for a kill and a win. Don’t think I’d care to play it any more if it’s all DF’d up like everything else.

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2 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Killer Whale and Raptor are the two I have the least trouble with as a CV, but wind up losing because the bot destroyers don’t get killed.

Aegis used to be easy as well, until WG packed it full of DF.

Narai was a basket case. None of the teams I played it with ever seemed to know what they were doing. I can’t remember if I’ve ever even five started it.

Frontier was the first Op where I felt WG was telling CV drivers they could go (redacted) themselves, as far as they we’re concerned. I didn’t enjoy it until I read that a DD could run north and nuke that first Cleveland before it could even get on the map. Took my fastest DD, Sims, and proceeded to do just that, numerous times.

Newport was intense in all the good ways; and the only time I rammed an Izumo with a Ryujo for a kill and a win. Don’t think I’d care to play it any more if it’s all DF’d up like everything else.

I've 5 starred everything I was allowed to bring a CV into. 

Killer Whale hasn't changed, Nor Raptor Rescue, the quality of the random teams has fallen to all time lows.

Aegis is actually semi-random, the spawns are fixed, the content is not. I've had runs with tons of AA, and some that the bots didn't bring any.

Newport could still be fun, but the teams have been short bus special as of late.

I started to love Narai, each CV of them played completely differently, Kaga you go nuking stuff, Hiryu needed to be a little more careful, Saipan played defense and utility, and Ranger was somewhere between Saipan and Hiryu.

Frontier was rough, but I've got the hang of it, just have had teams with at least one person doing something so stupid it makes my head hurt.

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6 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

lol

Not quite. Carriers have more options when it comes to avoiding getting seen; but they have to balance that versus strike times.

I've seen destroyers get swarmed and absolutely pulverized by the Operations bots; but I've also seen virtuoso destroyer drivers who seem immune to that; and who dance around trolling and sinking them with apparent ease.

I've run destroyers in Operations and found it to be just as you describe. Epic to tragic in seconds. 

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I don't find them a problem once i figured out which ships have df I bait it by having a db skirt the outer edge. Pull back.  Use the tb to kill other ships then come back to the survivors. Manual attacks are essential if you want to do well.

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I tend to find anytime i take my CV into Aegis i get tons of AA Crusiers in the first two waves.

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1 hour ago, RipNuN2 said:

I don't find them a problem once i figured out which ships have df I bait it by having a db skirt the outer edge. Pull back.  Use the tb to kill other ships then come back to the survivors. Manual attacks are essential if you want to do well.

That what I’m saying; baiting DF out is up to a minute wasted because so many of the ship are covered by the DF aura.

Tried to attack an Ishi on Aegis today. Aoba way the hell on the far side of the Ishi popped DF and screwed me over despite how far away the torpies were.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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