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yacskn

What's Wrong With CVs...

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... is not the AA or the RADAR or the plane HPs or whatever else is the cool new rant topic this week.

I'll tell you what's wrong with them; it's the CV players who take 2 bomber squadrons to go and kill secure a 2k HP BBs that's already under fire.

I mean why? It takes me on average 10 seconds to reload my guns, it takes nearly 2 minutes for you to make the whole round trip and rearm them. A CV is like a hammer, it should be used to bang away huge chunks out of the overall HP pool of the enemy team (and spot ships), not kill secure a barely alive ship that is already under fire.

I mean I understand if you go after a 500hp ship who has been capping and spotting and [expletive] without being seen, but this?

Please, prioritise better, ask yourself whether what you are about to do is really an effective use of the resources you have.

This is an issue I keep seeing over and over, so I felt compelled to say something about it.

And here you thought it was just going to be yet another rant about strong AA or nerfed US CVs, didn't you?

Edit: Feel like I need to make a few things clear because they've come up a few times in the replies:

  • Kill stealing isn't a thing. Sure we joke about it between div-mates, but sensible players will just be happy that there're fewer ships to cause trouble in the long run. This is not what this thread is about at all. However, I question the thought process that goes into deciding to strike what is so clearly a doomed ship, just to score a kill in a CV when there are so many, better targets to go after. Killing a 2k BB who is under fire is, in my opinion, an orders of magnitude worse thing to do, than to strike another BB for 20k+ damage. Especially given the context of the long downtimes between strikes.
  • Going after DDs, especially early game, is a beautiful and effective use of a CV. Fully approved.
Edited by yacskn

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It all depends on the player behind that CV. If hes good he will know how to prioritize but it all so depends on the situation. But in overall if you get a CV in your match its RNGesus call whether he'll be good or a total waste.

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That's just the thing.

It's THEIR football..  Doesn't matter if they can throw it or not.

Like it or not, you pulled a mission with a new aspiring CV driver.  Might be Unicum someday..  but not today.

CV driving is a skill best left to Co-Op for review or training.  A new player will seriously impair the side of a Random Battle.

But they need to learn 'somehow' and 'somewhere'. 

It would be nice if we had separate Random battles for inexperienced operators...  but then all the Unicums would be there Seal-Clubbing to pad their numbers.

...

So..  Make the best with what you've got.

 

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While I see your point, it's just like every other class of ship in the fact that people want kills for experience. You make a valid point about the time it takes to secure that kill. I think your point would be better made to say CV rewards for experience should be adjusted slightly.

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There is a two letter reason that CV players attack damaged ships, AA or really the lack of AA. Attacking ships with more health means they lose more planes, planes that cannot be replaced.

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Usually when I kill secure in a CV, it's because:

a) it could be the difference between life and death for a friendly.

b) it's cap related

c) they're escaping friendly fire

d) enemy AA has left me with so few options, that I can secure that kill, and recycle before another opportunity will appear

e) I won't have time to attack anyone else before the game ends

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57 minutes ago, yacskn said:

... is not the AA or the RADAR or the plane HPs or whatever else is the cool new rant topic this week.

I'll tell you what's wrong with them; it's the CV players who take 2 bomber squadrons to go and kill secure a 2k HP BBs that's already under fire.

I mean why? It takes me on average 10 seconds to reload my guns, it takes nearly 2 minutes for you to make the whole round trip and rearm them. A CV is like a hammer, it should be used to bang away huge chunks out of the overall HP pool of the enemy team (and spot ships), not kill secure a barely alive ship that is already under fire.

I mean I understand if you go after a 500hp ship who has been capping and spotting and [expletive] without being seen, but this?

Please, prioritise better, ask yourself whether what you are about to do is really an effective use of the resources you have.

This is an issue I keep seeing over and over, so I felt compelled to say something about it.

And here you thought it was just going to be yet another rant about strong AA or nerfed US CVs, didn't you?

I hear ya pal. It's getting more and more common. Nothing more frustrating than you, and perhaps another ship, working on a BB, it is in flames at 3 locations, and suddenly it blows up, and it's planes from a CV or torps from some lurking DD that takes the kill. I heard all the so called legitimate reasons for "securing the kill". Feel free to insert "stealing" where that "securing" is written. I know people say that you "don't own kills". Those are the same people that steal them. Unfortunately, it is going to continue and nothing you can do to stop it. I make sure to give them negative karma for "Unsportsmanlike play", but that's pretty much a waste of time. And definitely don't bother to say anything in-game, because you will just get some snide remark. Many times they will use the excuse that they "can't get a kill elsewhere because they don't have enough planes" or "they have no other choice". Horsecrap! They can at least try and damage other ships that are full health. If kills aren't that important, why are they taking an easy one? The answer is simple. Kills ARE important to them because it affects their precious stats. Get used to it. It's not going to stop. 

Edited by Deputy276

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1 hour ago, yacskn said:

... is not the AA or the RADAR or the plane HPs or whatever else is the cool new rant topic this week.

I'll tell you what's wrong with them; it's the CV players who take 2 bomber squadrons to go and kill secure a 2k HP BBs that's already under fire.

I mean why? It takes me on average 10 seconds to reload my guns, it takes nearly 2 minutes for you to make the whole round trip and rearm them. A CV is like a hammer, it should be used to bang away huge chunks out of the overall HP pool of the enemy team (and spot ships), not kill secure a barely alive ship that is already under fire.

I mean I understand if you go after a 500hp ship who has been capping and spotting and [expletive] without being seen, but this?

Please, prioritise better, ask yourself whether what you are about to do is really an effective use of the resources you have.

This is an issue I keep seeing over and over, so I felt compelled to say something about it.

And here you thought it was just going to be yet another rant about strong AA or nerfed US CVs, didn't you?

It is up to the CV Player. A target is a target unless that target has high AA. I will go after any ship that is weak, I may waste my time but it is best to not take chances. It's like when plays ask why I am attacking Destroyers with my Torpedo Bombers. Why do I do it? Because they hurt the BBs the most and they are the easiest to kill. I have pissed off many Destroyers.

Edited by Vangm94
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7 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

It is up to the CV Player. A target is a target unless that target has high AA. I will go after any ship that is weak, I may waste my time but it is best to not take chances. It's like when plays ask why I am attacking Destroyers with my Torpedo Bombers. Why do I do it? Because they hurt the BBs the most and they are the easiest to kill. I have pissed off many Destroyers.

So "a target is a target" unless it might be difficult to attack and require some skill. You aren't attacking DDs because they might hurt the BBs. You are attacking them because they are easier to kill because they have poor AA and low HP. Geez...just play a cruiser and let some other player who has some skill play the CV. You are hurting the "team" more than helping them.

Edited by Deputy276

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4 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

So "a target is a target" unless it might be difficult to attack and require some skill. You aren't attacking DDs because they might hurt the BBs. You are attacking them because they are easier to kill because they have poor AA and low HP. Geez...just play a cruiser and let some other player who has some testicular fortitude and skill play the CV. 

Yep, because I really want to attack a group of CAs and BBs rather than the single and easy to kill DD. It takes more skill to kill a DD because it is maneuverable. We all know that Ryujo can just attack Tier 8 ships outright :cap_rambo:

Keep in mind, I like uptiering.

Edited by Vangm94

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3 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

So "a target is a target" unless it might be difficult to attack and require some skill. You aren't attacking DDs because they might hurt the BBs. You are attacking them because they are easier to kill because they have poor AA and low HP. Geez...just play a cruiser and let some other player who has some skill play the CV. You are hurting the "team" more than helping them.

I don't know how often sinking a destroyer is hurting the team. The longer the game goes, the more influential they become.

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Just now, Vangm94 said:

Yep, because I really want to attack a group of CAs and BBs rather than the single and easy to kill DD. It takes more skill to kill a DD because it is maneuverable. We all know that Ryujo can just attack Tier 8 ships outright :cap_rambo:

LOL...great job of contradicting yourself. First you say it's easy to kill a DD, then you say it takes more skill to kill a DD. Ummm...pick one. :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, cometguy said:

I don't know how often sinking a destroyer is hurting the team. The longer the game goes, the more influential they become.

Never said sinking a Destroyer was hurting the team. I said his strategy was hurting the team. If his priority is sinking a DD, then he might as well be playing a cruiser. CVs have torps that can sink or do major damage to the enemy's capital ships. Using them to get easy kills on DDs is a waste of those torps, unless the DD is directly threatening a BB and is an immediate target of opportunity.

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1 minute ago, Deputy276 said:

LOL...great job of contradicting yourself. First you say it's easy to kill a DD, then you say it takes more skill to kill a DD. Ummm...pick one. :Smile_teethhappy:

It's both. I find it easy to kill them because I have the skill to do it. They are almost always my first target. Once the DDs are dead, hopefully my team will push up so that I can then attack the other weakened enemy ships. Tell me how many CV players will constantly shadow an enemy and how my CV players have you seen sink a DD within the first 2 minutes of a battle.

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Just now, Deputy276 said:

Never said sinking a Destroyer was hurting the team. I said his strategy was hurting the team. If his priority is sinking a DD, then he might as well be playing a cruiser. CVs have torps that can sink or do major damage to the enemy's capital ships. Using them to get easy kills on DDs is a waste of those torps, unless the DD is directly threatening a BB and is an immediate target of opportunity.

I always target DDs early. It limits the red teams early capping ability and scouting, giving my team a huge advantage.

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CV player aren't any better or worse then other players when it comes to targeting priority.

Though my favorite ones are the buggers that go after the big fat BB I'm about to land anywhere from 4 to 6 Torpedo's on and he drops on the bugger killing on a doomed target.   Yep utterly wasted my torp shot which had I known the CV was going to ga after him wouldn't have shot torps at em in the first place.

Funny how it's almost always the unicum players that pull this crap

I'm at the point where I just assume that the CV is out there to farm WTR.. winning of course is immaterial.

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, cometguy said:

Usually when I kill secure in a CV, it's because:

a) it could be the difference between life and death for a friendly.

b) it's cap related

c) they're escaping friendly fire

d) enemy AA has left me with so few options, that I can secure that kill, and recycle before another opportunity will appear

e) I won't have time to attack anyone else before the game ends

I agree with this. I also understand what the OP is saying, however, this isn't just a CV problem, it effects the whole player base. When I am thinking about kill securing I always think, worse case scenario, what if the enemy ship got one more good volley off before they died, or torps, or whatever? I can't tell you the number of times a nearly dead ship has made a narrow escape, only to inflict serious damage later.

That being said, when playing my CV I try to avoid this at all costs because of the said long reload, but sometimes you just need to make sure, rule #2, double tap.

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1 minute ago, cometguy said:

I always target DDs early. It limits the red teams early capping ability and scouting, giving my team a huge advantage.

Understood. That is PvP stuff. Sorry, I thought folks would see the clan I am in and the type of play I mainly participate in. My bad. 

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Just now, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

CV player aren't any better or worse then other players when it comes to targeting priority.

Though my favorite ones are the buggers that go after the big fat BB I'm about to land anywhere from 4 to 6 Torpedo's on and he drops on the bugger killing on a doomed target.   Yep utterly wasted my torp shot which had I known the CV was going to ga after him wouldn't have shot torps at em in the first place.

Funny how it's almost always the unicum players that pull this crap

I'm at the point where I just assume that the CV is out there to farm WTR.. winning of course is immaterial.

 

 

 

Yep, those are good times when you drop for nothing... but it is what it is and all you can do is go onto the next target. My simple priority of this game is to win. I could care less about WTR and stats.

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1 minute ago, Kevs02Accord said:

I agree with this. I also understand what the OP is saying, however, this isn't just a CV problem, it effects the whole player base. When I am thinking about kill securing I always think, worse case scenario, what if the enemy ship got one more good volley off before they died, or torps, or whatever? I can't tell you the number of times a nearly dead ship has made a narrow escape, only to inflict serious damage later.

That being said, when playing my CV I try to avoid this at all costs because of the said long reload, but sometimes you just need to make sure, rule #2, double tap.

Yep, never take chances. Double Tap because the enemy ship can still dodge.

1 minute ago, Deputy276 said:

Understood. That is PvP stuff. Sorry, I thought folks would see the clan I am in and the type of play I mainly participate in. My bad. 

No problem

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1 minute ago, Deputy276 said:

Understood. That is PvP stuff. Sorry, I thought folks would see the clan I am in and the type of play I mainly participate in. My bad. 

Ahh, ya, pve I generally don't bother attacking a destroyer, and let someone else take care of their yolo programming.

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1 hour ago, yacskn said:

... is not the AA or the RADAR or the plane HPs or whatever else is the cool new rant topic this week.

I'll tell you what's wrong with them; it's the CV players who take 2 bomber squadrons to go and kill secure a 2k HP BBs that's already under fire.

I mean why? It takes me on average 10 seconds to reload my guns, it takes nearly 2 minutes for you to make the whole round trip and rearm them. A CV is like a hammer, it should be used to bang away huge chunks out of the overall HP pool of the enemy team (and spot ships), not kill secure a barely alive ship that is already under fire.

I mean I understand if you go after a 500hp ship who has been capping and spotting and [expletive] without being seen, but this?

Please, prioritise better, ask yourself whether what you are about to do is really an effective use of the resources you have.

This is an issue I keep seeing over and over, so I felt compelled to say something about it.

And here you thought it was just going to be yet another rant about strong AA or nerfed US CVs, didn't you?

you also have the other end off the stick where a CV TB/DB a ship and takes most off there HP away leaving it to 1 shot to be killed and you have your TB/DB seconds away to finish it just for someone on your team to sink it, even though they  were shooting something else they changed targets to the one the CV about to kill just so they can get the kill 

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2 minutes ago, ausanimal said:

you also have the other end off the stick where a CV TB/DB a ship and takes most off there HP away leaving it to 1 shot to be killed and you have your TB/DB seconds away to finish it just for someone on your team to sink it, even though they  were shooting something else they changed targets to the one the CV about to kill just so they can get the kill 

Nahhh....kill stealing isn't a thing :Smile_teethhappy:

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3 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

Nahhh....kill stealing isn't a thing :Smile_teethhappy:

Personally I could care less about kill stealing given that it is the damage that mostly counts. In my eyes, 5 v 1 ship, someone is gonna get to kill so I would not consider it a kill steal.

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4 minutes ago, Deputy276 said:

Nahhh....kill stealing isn't a thing :Smile_teethhappy:

Only time it bothers me is if I had already committed to the mop up, but there was another target near by that I could have started on, had I known someone else was going to wrap that one up. Even then, it's usually a "man, I could have had that other ship burn damage control, so by the time my next bombers get there, the fires/flooding will stick, and there's less waiting around"

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