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TL_Warlord_Roff

So some real world arty stuff

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*taps podium*

Start reading...this is the stuff the devs work with.

THE PRODUCTION OF FIRING TABLES FOR CANNON ARTILLERY

by Elizabeth R. Dickinson, November 1967

U. S. ARMY MATERIEL COMMAND BALLISTIC RESEARCH LABORATORIES ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MARYLAND

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/826735.pdf

 

There will be math.  And you math guys are gonna love this!

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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1 minute ago, Turbotush said:

As soon as you said "there will be math"  I was gone!

Coward!

Ms Dickinson, who wrote it is someone I'd love to know about.    It's easy high school level stuff.  Come on, you got this.

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff
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It's kinda funny, but when I was in HS and college, I couldn't do math to save my life. The only thing that kept me from going to nuclear power school is that I just somehow could NOT manage to get the math.

... and then one day I came across artillery calculations, and boom (some pun intended), suddenly it all just started to click and math started to make sense. Went from there on to phased array radar calculations and antenna shapes and ... and ... math kind of got fun.

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Does not surprise me.  Especially if it's a technical paper like this one where the calculations are explained and proofs are shown.  I'm on my third read through now since I stumbled over this and I'm all ready doodling calcs out on a legal pad... Weird as it may seem, it kinda fun.  Takes me back to USAF basic and advanced electronics school when a good USAF E-tech was for all practical purposes just a hair ball of a step down from being an electronics engineer.

They taught us how to fix pretty much everything.  If iit carried current or data we could work on it, fix it, rebuild it, reconfigure it, redesign it. Re task it.   I recall some lovely Doomsday exercises I got to take part in.. Handed a box of parts, pointed at a work table and given 24 hours to turn those parts into a broad spectrum radar jamming suite ready to be mounted and used.   You did math.. a lot of math, usually while working off a hand drawn schematic that you revised as you went because you had to actually build circuits that you didn't always have just the right parts for, so you had to create subassemblies that would do the same thing... and not burn out or break!  

Most fun I had as a Air Force tech was those exercises!

 

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18 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

*taps podium*

Start reading...this is the stuff the devs work with.

THE PRODUCTION OF FIRING TABLES FOR CANNON ARTILLERY

by Elizabeth R. Dickinson, November 1967

U. S. ARMY MATERIEL COMMAND BALLISTIC RESEARCH LABORATORIES ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MARYLAND

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/826735.pdf

 

There will be math.  And you math guys are gonna love this!

Don't let the flat earth people see this. They will exclaim SORCERY and try and burn you at the stake. 

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But will they have the correct ignition temperature to achieve a good coefficient of burn

 

(ok you got me, I have no idea if that actually tracks but in the spirit of Star trek "the Klingon and the romulan mean nothing to us, it we find we're in a bind we just make some crapup!" (Voltair's make crapup star trek parody song)

 

P.S. two 16 oz beers, or 3 shots of 80 proof do help with tracking... or at least drops the fear of math factor!  Drink Responsibly!

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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9 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

But will they have the correct ignition temperature to achieve a good coefficient of burn

 

No, no. You need to reach the latent heat of vaporization so that the volatile organic compounds will come out of the person and then burn.

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On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:28 PM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

*taps podium*

Start reading...this is the stuff the devs work with.

THE PRODUCTION OF FIRING TABLES FOR CANNON ARTILLERY

by Elizabeth R. Dickinson, November 1967

U. S. ARMY MATERIEL COMMAND BALLISTIC RESEARCH LABORATORIES ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND, MARYLAND

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/826735.pdf

 

There will be math.  And you math guys are gonna love this!

That's it!!! All the secondary gunners in WoWs T6 and down failed high school math, that's why you can't hit squat with secondaries at those tiers. :cap_rambo:

(cue doofus who says "duh secondaries T6 and below are good, you just don't know how to use them")

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By golly I think he's figured it out.. The great mystery of why secondary guns seem to hit everything BUT the target!  (the water which is difficult to miss but give em a chance.   Islands.. a little bit harder to hit then the water.. team mates in close proximity to an enemy target... guaranteed hits every single time with fires started!!!)

 

and yes, low tier secondaries are just.. uhg.. But get closer!  I'm of the school of "Shove the end of the barrel against their hull THEN fire".  IJN ships really good for that as the barrels do stick out more!.  And they make excellent dive boards in port with a assist from the ships carpenter mounting a plank on top of the barrel!

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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On 4/6/2018 at 6:35 AM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

But will they have the correct ignition temperature to achieve a good coefficient of burn

 

(ok you got me, I have no idea if that actually tracks but in the spirit of Star trek "the Klingon and the romulan mean nothing to us, it we find we're in a bind we just make some crapup!" (Voltair's make crapup star trek parody song)

 

P.S. two 16 oz beers, or 3 shots of 80 proof do help with tracking... or at least drops the fear of math factor!  Drink Responsibly!

What the whack are you trying to say? You had a beer AND 3 shots of 80 proof before posting this. Lol!

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6 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

By golly I think he's figured it out.. The great mystery of why secondary guns seem to hit everything BUT the target!  (the water which is difficult to miss but give em a chance.   Islands.. a little bit harder to hit then the water.. team mates in close proximity to an enemy target... guaranteed hits every single time with fires started!!!)

 

and yes, low tier secondaries are just.. uhg.. But get closer!  I'm of the school of "Shove the end of the barrel against their hull THEN fire".  IJN ships really good for that as the barrels do stick out more!.  And they make excellent dive boards in port with a assist from the ships carpenter mounting a plank on top of the barrel!

Great post. I wondered the same thing. Secondaries can shoot everything within range EXCEPT the dd turning broadside to torp you! Frustrating and fun at the same time.

note: you posted this either before beers and booze or after. Hard to tell which, folks are different, but I know just what you mean this time. Lol!

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Not just any beer but a 16 oz MALT liquor!  (not really.. I don't drink all that much at all, a few times a year.. never have liked the effect it has on me.)

Anyway back on subject fun as the rest has been.

 

The paper itself is about creating firing tables for big guns.  And this is still important because if you loose your military network/communcations/etc and those lovely very expensive ballistics computers in modern self propelled artillery fail, or your working with a good old fashioned towed field gun  you need you "Cheat Sheet" and that's what arty firing tables are because timely accurate fire does not permit time to be spent on doing more then a bare minimum of math when the job is load, set aim, fire repeat as fast as possible because if you don't the "good guys" may not survive!

Whats important though is the tables will give you the values for what land gunners call the "Beaten Zone" and this is what in warships we refer to as Dispersion and Sigma.. ie: Width and depth of the area where the shells fall.  It's all in the math.

 

One of things that happens under the hood to speed up calculations and reduce the load on the servers machines is a bit of a math "cheat".  Working from known values (ie: Artillery tables) the devs have essentially fudge factored/abstracted in fall of shot with values for X and Y dispersion (Length/Width of the ellipse of the beaten zone)  with Sigma being the tendency for shell to drift off target with the reason for it being drift NOT having to be calculated.  They can do a very quick and dirty calculation of the artillery fall of shot at the moment you fire the guns, and basically have the graphics you see agree with their calculations with the only important calculations done on the shells that actually hit your ship when they land.  But to do that they still need to know where those shells are going.    This is not world of tanks where your firing a single gun. it Warships and you cutting loose with an entire battery.   Ships like the Lyon in land warfare would represent and entire Heavy Artillery REGIMENT with it's 16 gun tubes.    Most players see ships as a single entity and never think beyond that.    I am and old wargamer so I tend to think of ships as a maneuver element of a larger force.   

They've done quite a knock up job all told.  As a gamer it's important that it looks right, and it feels right.

So bear in mind where your shells land is determined the moment you fire them.. hits are determined When They Land and not until then.  Sometimes what you see is not quite what just happened though the server does make every effort to make sure the client get the information/data it needs to present to you graphicly what just happened milliseconds ago. In most cases your seeing on the screen what just happened about 1 to 2 tenths of a second ago all told as the server calculated tells the client, the client confirm it's received the data and get the ok from the server to portray the results.   The client is constantly being updated with the current state of the ships in the game.

Because everything is determined server side it makes cheating.. real cheating without actually hacking the server pretty much impossible.. there is no god mode!   The cheating that does happen tends to be overlays apps and not mods to the game because mods can be detected and reported on BY THE CLIENT.  There are however mods that pull information from the data packets you receive that they really should not be doing.  In the case of actual working cheats the data is copied to an external app that presents the desired information via an overlay.

 

Which by the by explains a few months back why folks steam/overwolf/capture overlay apps were causing issues because they were being interpreted as a cheat app resulting in the server dropping communications with the client.  It's been fine tuned since then.  Your app better have a legit security certificate though because the server is gonna ask!  Can it be spoofed?  Yes.  Is it easy to do?  No , not really.  Which is why the "working" cheats are all subscription based.  They have to be regularly maintained and updated and they all put a hell of a load on the client side computer.  Which also explains why it's the very well heeled gamers that run cheats because we folks with low end system.. "how to break your computer in 3 easy steps"   

It's not the poor gamers doing the cheating.. they simply cannot afford it!  It's all the rich kids..  Shouldn't be to much of a surprise!

And yea I wandered off far a field on that.  Apologies!   My only excuse is I'm old, I'm over educated, I've a 110 plus IQ and a lot of curiosity, I'm bored and I'm always seeing connections.  I did great in math as a kid.. freak'n hated english class though.   1st period class all through Junior high and High school.  I was easy to find, just look for the kid asleep at his desk!

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