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JediMasterDraco

A Question About Asashio

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As anyone who's been on the forums lately knows, there is huge controversy over the introduction of the new IJN premium DD. My question is: Why? This is hardly the first time that wargaming has introduced a ship that is devastatingly lethal against a certain class of ship.

Any DD player worth their torps knows that Atlanta and Belfast are monsters that can easily slaughter a DD. The Scharnhorst murders cruisers with a nice combination of accuracy (for a German) and RoF, with her secondaries and torps making a (non-US) cruiser that attempts a point-blank torp volley into a shipwreck.

But now that we have a destroyer that is super effective against BBs (provided they sail in a straight line for an extended period of time), people are suddenly on the verge of a revolt. This is inspite of the fact that any DD or CL/CA (with the exception of non-Akizuki/Harekaze IJN DDs) is literally going to eat this thing for breakfast with the Asashio unable to do much more that shoot spitballs in return. My advice, if you don't want to deal with this thing's torps, then play one of the other types of ships besides BBs. Heck, playing cruisers is an excellent way to master armor angling and kiting, thus improving your BB performance. Just a thought.

Now, let the down votes begin.

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It's a difference between "Being good against <x>" and "Being purposely designed to kill <x> at the exclusion of everything else to such an extent it will lead to more passive playstyle from <x> when people are already complaining about <x> camping too much".

Furthermore, the ships you mentioned being strong against their targets require / promote decent game play to make their strengths count. What gameplay do you think 20km torpedoes that can be fired safely from behind friendly cruisers and destroyers promotes?

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When the solution to a ship is simply to outright not engage it. Then it is no longer a healthy ship.

Players shouldn't be forced to say "that's ship X, guess im not playing this game" in such extreme ways as Asashio promotes.

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8 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

As anyone who's been on the forums lately knows, there is huge controversy over the introduction of the new IJN premium DD. My question is: Why? This is hardly the first time that wargaming has introduced a ship that is devastatingly lethal against a certain class of ship.

Any DD player worth their torps knows that Atlanta and Belfast are monsters that can easily slaughter a DD. The Scharnhorst murders cruisers with a nice combination of accuracy (for a German) and RoF, with her secondaries and torps making a (non-US) cruiser that attempts a point-blank torp volley into a shipwreck.

But now that we have a destroyer that is super effective against BBs (provided they sail in a straight line for an extended period of time), people are suddenly on the verge of a revolt. This is inspite of the fact that any DD or CL/CA (with the exception of non-Akizuki/Harekaze IJN DDs) is literally going to eat this thing for breakfast with the Asashio unable to do much more that shoot spitballs in return. My advice, if you don't want to deal with this thing's torps, then play one of the other types of ships besides BBs. Heck, playing cruisers is an excellent way to master armor angling and kiting, thus improving your BB performance. Just a thought.

Now, let the down votes begin.

 

No one's saying the ship's a problem because it has deep water torps.

 

The ship's not "devastatingly lethal" to any thing. It's a Kagero with torps that can only hit 1/4 of the ships in game, if lucky. It's a crapDD. Has not the guns nor the turn rate for knife fight and has not the torps to contest caps or help contest caps. 

 

It's "devastatingly stupid". 

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Just now, Akeno017 said:

When the solution to a ship is simply to outright not engage it. Then it is no longer a healthy ship.

Players shouldn't be forced to say "that's ship X, guess im not playing this game" in such extreme ways as Asashio promotes.

It's a team game.  BBs should buddy up with cruiser and DD killing DDs.  My Khaba is gonna feast on these Asashios.  A Japanese DD with weak guns that can't torp my Khaba?  Yum!!!  

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Its fine... most asashios will be playing old fashion shima and siting in the spawn not spotting for team, also its not effective if theres a ton of dds and cruisers. People said DW pan Asian would break the game and magically the game is the same. Only people that should worry are the ones that go in straight lines continuously. 

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9 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

27q58c.jpg

If you think about it a bit...

While ships are generally considered female, the Bismarck had a special role in that sense in the German Navy. When Captain Lindemann saw her he thought that such a steel giant could never be female, and hence considered Bismarck to be male.

So he is not betraying his gf/wife with another women, but with another man. Plot twist!

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Pretty much what Lert said many of the complaints are that it will make BB's more passive and on the flip side Asashio has no way to defend itself against ships like Belfast or Atlanta.

Personally I think they should let her Deep Water Torps hit cruisers at the cost of some range say give them a  15km range still more then Kagero while allowing the ship to defend itself against cruisers

Edited by yamato6945

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

It's a difference between "Being good against <x>" and "Being purposely designed to kill <x> at the exclusion of everything else to such an extend it will lead to more passive playstyle from <x> when people are already complaining about <x> camping too much".

Furthermore, the ships you mentioned being strong against their targets require / promote decent game play to make their strengths count. What gameplay do you think 20km torpedoes that can be fired safely from behind friendly cruisers and destroyers promotes?

Literally this.  My problem with Asashio is not that it is good against BBs, it's that it promotes bad gameplay.  BBs have no incentive to push against an Asashio and she has no incentive to cap because she has literally no way of fighting another DD.  It's just bad design for a ship.

If they want to reduce BB pop, buff IJN DDs and allow them to punish BBs through use of risk/reward.  The old Minekaze was a great example of a ship that could punish BBs with a decent player understanding the risk/reward benefits of the ship.  It was well designed and I'm sad they nerfed it.

Also, while I agree that Belfast is poorly designed because it can do too much, it is still a ship that works to contest caps and help team play.  Atlanta, similarly, also promotes team play and, in my opinion, is an example of a very well designed ship as it takes a lot of skill to use effectively.  Scharnhorst, similarly, promotes BBs pushing and can be easily countered via angling by the opponent.

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5 minutes ago, Lert said:

It's a difference between "Being good against <x>" and "Being purposely designed to kill <x> at the exclusion of everything else to such an extend it will lead to more passive playstyle from <x> when people are already complaining about <x> camping too much".

Furthermore, the ships you mentioned being strong against their targets require / promote decent game play to make their strengths count. What gameplay do you think 20km torpedoes that can be fired safely from behind friendly cruisers and destroyers promotes?

Okay I'll admit the 20k range is a little outrageous. But if you're firing at that range, you won't hit crapexcept by chance. And adding to that, does Asashio even have the viewing range to see 20k?

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2 minutes ago, yamato6945 said:

Pretty much what Lert said many of the complaints are that it will make BB's more passive and on the flip side Asashio has no way to defend itself against ships like Belfast or Atlanta.

Personally I think they should let her Deep Water Torps hit cruisers at the cost of some range say give them say a  15km range still more then Kagero while allowing the to defend itself against cruisers

Most bbs are passive tho. the ones sitting at base wont even get affected by it, Id agree the aggressive bb players will get punished by this more than anything.

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3 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

Okay I'll admit the 20k range is a little outrageous. But if you're firing at that range, you won't hit crapexcept by chance.

Yeah that's not going to stop mediocre and below players - the majority of the playerbase of this game - to do exactly that because it worked that one time they saw it on youtube so surely it must be the right way to play it, right? After all, if these torpedoes weren't meant to be shot from 20km, why do they have a 20km range?

3 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

And adding to that, does Asashio even have the viewing range to see 20k?

Nope! 16km. Which happens to be the max range of these torpedoes with TA.

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Because its a Asashio is poor design that will promote even more poor and passive gameplay. And we already have enough of that into the game, there is no need to add more.

 

Also, Asashio is a hard counter, and hard counters are a frustrating and idiot thing because they leave no room for counterplay.

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17 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

27q58c.jpg

Damn it, I ran out of likes. :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, Xlap said:

Because its a Asashio is poor design that will promote even more poor and passive gameplay. And we already have enough of that into the game, there is no need to add more.

 

Also, Asashio is a hard counter, and hard counters are a frustrating and idiot thing because they leave no room for counterplay.

Hard counter?

Since when does Asashio get sonar guided torpedoes that only track Battleships?

Learn your definitions. Radar is a hard counter. Asashio is not.

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Is it just me, or won't all the other intervening ships spot those torpedoes before they get to where the BB's are hanging out if they are launched from max range?  Once spotted, those torps stay spotted, meaning that if a BB or CV can't alter their course in the 30 seconds or so till it gets to them, they deserve to get wrecked.  The old Shima 20k torps were popular too, until their detection got so large combined with their speed that only the most careless of BB captains got hit by them.

Tempest in a teacup until we actually see them being used.

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2 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yeah that's not going to stop mediocre and below players - the majority of the playerbase of this game - to do exactly that because it worked that one time they saw it on youtube so surely it must be the right way to play it, right? After all, if these torpedoes weren't meant to be shot from 20km, why do they have a 20km range?

Yeah that's a good point. I just try to assume that someone will play sensibly.

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Just now, JediMasterDraco said:

I just try to assume that someone will play sensibly.

You must be new here.

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I would say the deadlyness will depend very much on the spotting range and speed of the Torps , do we have any Info on them ?

 

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Just now, Lert said:

You must be new here.

Nah, I just have way to much faith in my fellow man despite working at Kroger for nearly two years (and having made my way up to a borderline management position) and once having heard a classmate ask if Pearl Harbor was Britain attacking Germany.

But my main issue regarding the Asashio isn't the constructed logical argument that you and other make, but the rant fest that BB main throw as they threaten to quit.

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1 minute ago, Dollcet said:

I would say the deadlyness will depend very much on the spotting range and speed of the Torps , do we have any Info on them ?

 

According to the extended in-game tech tree, They go 67 kts and have a detect of 0.9 km.

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8 minutes ago, kruppw said:

Since when does Asashio get sonar guided torpedoes that only track Battleships?

Since its a stealth nuke, with long range, high speed that can only hit BBs and CVs. 

 

9 minutes ago, kruppw said:

Learn your definitions. Radar is a hard counter. Asashio is not.

Radar is a hard counter too, a hard counter to concealment. 

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4 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Since its a stealth nuke, with long range, high speed that can only hit BBs and CVs. 

 

Radar is a hard counter too, a hard counter to concealment. 

It is not and does not have a nuke.

Try this thing called WASD hacks

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38 minutes ago, JediMasterDraco said:

My advice, if you don't want to deal with this thing's torps, then play one of the other types of ships besides BBs.

play one of the other types of ships besides BBs.

other types of ships besides BBs

no, world of battleships is world of battleships

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