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Hezekial

Aircraft Carriers. Rebalance please

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I just got cross dropped to death in my DD.

 

It was not like I did not know what was happening.

I saw the planes coming. I changed my speed and course. Then the 2 squadrons separated. I turned hard to port as the planes came in. Then the torpedoes splashed into the water.

The landed within a boat length of me, this is nuts. This is not possible to dodge. If one wave of torpedoes does not get you the other at 90 degrees does.

And this was not all his planes, the other wave of torpedo bombers was on its way back to the carrier while the drive bombers was setting another DD on fire.

 

What other ship in the game gets more a more weapons up the tier to this extent?

Imagine a tier 10 battleship having triple the guns of a tier 4 battle ships?

Or a DD with triple the number of torpedo tubes as a tier 4? Kitakami on steroids any one?

Yet CV's get 3 times the number of squadrons at tier 10 compared with tier 4

Getting one "shotted", so rarely happens for any other class of ship. but the CV? It's their bread and butter.

 

Yeah you have to be a good carrier captain to make them sing, but when they do, they SMASH the enemy team.

I set up my cruisers with max AA rating to ruin the CV's day just in case there is one in the game.

I hope this puts them off so they stop playing these ships.

 

Do they play their game or not? Why is this so unfun to play against CVs?

It's like arty from World of Tanks, I have seen a modern WoT "clone" remove their arty from PvP because they as such a bad idea. And so are CVs if left like this.

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You can't fix what's Broken  ! ! ! ! ! !

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Guess I should feel lucky; I sometimes think I’m the only person who doesn’t get bothered by CVs much in destroyers.

But then I watch the map and actively avoid going places where planes I can see might spot me; especially if there’s a mob of them.

If I get spotted and mobbed anyway? Oh well, doesn’t happen often enough to be an issue to me.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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You started the same topic 5 hours ago. It won’t fix the probleme if you Make multiple topics...

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3 hours ago, Hezekial said:

I saw the planes coming. I changed my speed and course.

No smoke or DefAA?  Sounds like you were playing a torpedo-soup kitchen.  Been there, done that.  Them's the breaks when you get to launch 18 fish in ten seconds.

3 hours ago, Hezekial said:

What other ship in the game gets more a more weapons up the tier to this extent?

No other ship in the game has to wait between two and five minutes to shoot again.

3 hours ago, Hezekial said:

Getting one "shotted", so rarely happens for any other class of ship. but the CV? It's their bread and butter.

Battleships earn devstrikes in a very high percentage of games against cruisers who go broadside and destroyers who are unlucky enough to find an HE-loaded BB.

3 hours ago, Hezekial said:

I set up my cruisers with max AA rating to ruin the CV's day just in case there is one in the game.

That's the idea.  Many don't even have to be set up max-AA to make a serious dent in things.

3 hours ago, Hezekial said:

I hope this puts them off so they stop playing these ships.

Please don't.  We have no business attempting to influence what ships other players use, enjoy or otherwise.  When I play heavy-AA, it's to present a challenge, an obstacle to their success.  It removes other advantages that I could have against other ships, and so it's not something I do religiously.  Somehow or another I seem to get by with a decently average win rate.

 

I share your frustration over having been demolished in one match.  I've been there, but not regularly.  I take precautions against it and let's be honest; I usually only see CVs once in every four or five games I play.  I don't regularly play them, and they do need work as a playable platform, but I very strongly believe they have a place in the game and an important one at that. 

 

Anyhow, I'll wrap up my soapbox time with this:

4 hours ago, KURT_WOLFF said:

You can't fix what's Broken

You might not be able to, but that doesn't mean someone else can't.  It'd be a pitiful waste to throw it out just for having been broken for a while.  There's a way ahead in this case.

-R

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If you make this thread every 2 hours I'm sure it'll be fixed by the end of the day.

Tip for when CVs cross drop your DD. Hard turn to go between the torps from the first drop and as you turn stop your ship. The 2nd drop will go by ahead of your bow in a lot of cases. It won't work all the time, but it'll be a hell of a lot more effective than coming in here to complain about getting yourself killed.

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They are desperately in need of a complete rebuild but not for the reason you think. It seems you got smacked by one of the better CV drivers and when they decide they want you they will get you. Most are not that good and a DD can easily comb both drops and even BB's will limit the damage to a torpedo or two.

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On 04/04/2018 at 5:30 PM, Hezekial said:

Yet CV's get 3 times the number of squadrons at tier 10 compared with tier 4

your only half right with that midway gets a 2-2-2 load out and at tier 4 its 1-1-1 so its only doubled at tier 10 its the IJN CV that gets more squads and trust me US CV have to suffer ages going up the tiers and when we get another squad its not fighters which would be more helpful but we get a 2nd DB squad. so by what you said im guessing you havent played CV yes some are OP but that more premiums the problem is US CV get stuck with the 1-1-1 loadout for ages that as you go up the tiers it gets harder to counter IJN CV with the amount off squads they can put out

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probably should just get good.. you should try playing a carrier for a while you will sing a different tune very quickly but you are one of the reasons why there is so much cancer AA in the game because your too stupid to use your team to your advantage, safety in numbers just seems to be something that a lot of people cant seem to under stand how it works.

TEAM???!!!! WHATS THAT? OO DO I HAVE ONE OF THEM? IT SOUNDS OP MAYBE I SHOULD COMPLAIN ON THE FORUMS BECAUSE THE ENEMY.......(what did you call it...oo..a team..) TEAM KILLED ME!

Edited by IronFistOfChaos
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On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 3:43 AM, KURT_WOLFF said:

You can't fix what's Broken  ! ! ! ! ! !

Dude I love that picture, he was a brilliant leader, just on the wrong side...

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2 hours ago, Roundet said:

Dude I love that picture, he was a brilliant leader, just on the wrong side...

Picture? A quote from a movie?

(will probably be some serious ‘DOUH!!!’ when I hear what it’s from...)

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18 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Picture? A quote from a movie?

(will probably be some serious ‘DOUH!!!’ when I hear what it’s from...)

Well someone made a comment and had a picture of Erwin Rommel, one hell of a leader and strategist....  Just finishing up for the night but would love to team up sometime, can never learn enough from seasoned players...

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A properly executed cross-drop is the mark of a competent CV player, and something pretty much no target can avoid if perfectly executed (merely competent cross-drops, on the other hand, do have more space for dodging)

You were most likely facing an IJN CV (since only Midway of the USN line gets 2 torpedo bomber squads), and it doesn't seem that you had defensive fire (mistake #1 right there, playing a low AA ship; if you're playing a Shimakaze/Yamato). If you did, I must question why you didn't have it available at that moment (indicates poor use of defensive AA) or why you didn't use it. If you did not, you accepted a vulnerability to CVs when you entered battle, just like Minekazes accept that they will most likely encounter tier 6/7 dd's that will be able to outgun and possibly outspot them.

Your claim that the torpedoes were dropped a destroyer's length away from you and still activated means either:

  • the enemy CV didn't have torpedo acceleration (a rarity among CV players)
  • they were dropped farther away than you actually claimed

If the former is true, then the torpedoes are slower, meaning you possibly could have sped out of the target zone (ie where the torpedoes crossed paths and thus are practically impossible to dodge) or slowed down to avoid the first drop and then accelerated to avoid the second drop. And if they really did drop that close, try turning into the torpedoes; you might be able to hit them before they can activate.

If the latter is true, then you should've had a lot more room to maneuver. If you really want to watch torpedobeats in action, even against CV cross-drops, try watching one of Yuro's videos.

Even if it was perfectly executed, you should be able to minimize the number of torpedoes you eat; most competent dd players won't die to a single cross-drop (a tashkent, for instance, can eat 2 CV torpedoes and still live); one torpedo you shouldn't be the end of you unless you're on very low health, in which case you probably have more significant problems than the CV anyways.

I personally have yet to see a single CV player be able to simultaneously attack with a manual cross-drop; there is always a delay. Even a split second difference is enough for some players to dodge a cross-drop (although if you're driving a less maneuverable ship like a BB, eating at least a few torpedoes is pretty much a given unless the CV really messed up his drop). I should know, having been under attack by a kaga in my minsk one match and using an island and careful maneuvering to avoid eating a single torpedo in three separate cross-drop attacks. And if it's auto-drop, then the margin of error for dodging should be even higher

Regardless of what happened, you failed to account for the dive bombers coming in after the torpedo bombers (mistake #2). If you flooded and repaired, and then burned to death via the divebombers, you should have saved your damage control. If you were at such low health that an IJN dive bomber squad could finish you, then you would have died sooner or later anyways.

In short, the best way to neutralize a CV strike in a dd:

  • choose the correct ship (preferably a USN dd with defensive fire, though the Russian dd split could also work)
    • if not, have teammates that can provide you with similar AA cover
  • know when to fold them: if you're isolated in A, your team's in C, and enemy planes are baring down on you, now would be a good time to retreat and start asking for cover from your own CV or to head towards your local friendly Minotaur/Des Moines
  • know when to use damage control: DOT is one of a CV's more powerful tricks, but can be easily negated with proper discipline and knowledge (and a bit of RNG luck)
  • remember to adjust speed and direction both before and after the planes drop: suddenly stopping before a drop occurs isn't going to save you, even if you smoke up (as one benson who tried this trick learned the hard way)
  • do not stay in the target zone; get out of there ASAP
    • ideally, don't even enter the target zone
  • turn INTO the drop, not away
  • learn to identify torpedo arming distances: if they're really close, you can probably turn and hit one without it exploding (air-dropped torpedoes don't arm until the little red triangle pops up above them)

AA-specced ships sacrifice a lot of utility to be able to ruin 1 player's day. For example, did you choose to take BFT, AFT, and MAA on your Des Moines, as well as AA guns mod 2 and 3? That's a good 14 captain points gone, so you probably sacrificed at least one of the following:

  • jack of all trades
  • expert marksmen
  • adrenaline rush
  • superintendent
  • demolition expert
  • vigilance
  • concealment expert

in addition to one of the following:

  • faster reload
  • farther range
  • less dispersion

If you did, then you compromised your ability in 100% of matches just to be able to mess 1 player up who's around in maybe 20%, possibly even 10% of matches (or even less)

If you didn't, then it's not a true AA-spec ship and you compromised your ability both to fight surface ships and to fight the CV.

Watch videos from this guy to see examples of dodging supposedly undodgeable torpedo attacks, including cross-drops. Here's one: 

 

PS: my original draft was a lot saltier (with some choice words thrown in), given that we CV players put up a lot, but I decided, for the sake of education, to remove those lines. I hope you will not make me regret my restraint.

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