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GhostSwordsman

Thoughts on the missing T9 and T10 IJN DDs

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The other day when the first threads started coming up showing the ST buffs for Hipper/Eugen and Shimakaze, in the same Reddit post it originated from Sub posted that soon he might be able to show some stuff on these two missing tiers(after Akizuki in he branched line). I'd provide a link, but alas I'm on my phone at the moment, so I apologize.

I'm  cuious as to what people think these DDs will be like, and what they'd like to see out of them coming after Akizuki. I know at least one of the proposed Super Akizuki designs out there adds a 5th gun turret, but that's the largest difference I know of in that design. Does anyone think Wg might experiment with an Akizuki that has two quad torp launchers?

Personally, I'm hoping that the T9 at least is faster than Akizuki. She's a great platform, but her biggest drawback is her slow speed for a DD. I think an Akizuki that could hit 36kts without speed boost would be very comfortable to play, and fix Akizuki's biggest drawback, sluggish maneuverability.

So, thoughts/speculation on what these two DDs will be like?

 

Edit: Adding reddit link where Sub_O says that they might be able to share information about the missing DDs soon.

 

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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ive heard something known as "Akizuki Kai" be mentioned for the T9 or T10 there

super_akizuki_coloured_by_tzoli-d7phuot.

Edited by tcbaker777
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Maybe an upgraded Akizuki but otherwise... as far as I know all there is are the last-ditch destroyers... not sure you want basically an escort vs a Khab

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19 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

ive heard something known as "Akizuki Kai" be mentioned for the T9 or T10 there

super_akizuki_coloured_by_tzoli-d7phuot.

This is not a real design, just a drawing. Real design was basically Akizuki using the new powerplant to get typical destroyer speeds. I think that the quintuple torpedo launcher was also specified.

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Honestly, I don't see them going the 'gunboat' path, as they had the chance to do it with the original split and could not do it.  Likely Akizuki will remain the only attempt at this, and we'll see more 'general purpose' DD designs intended to fill the two missing slots without being either useful or capable.  Yugumo is a very balanced IJN DD now, and can function well as both gunboat and torpedo boat, while Shimakaze is a dedicated torpedo platform that suffers from not having capable torpedoes.  Maybe they might put up a three-quad launcher DD at T9, and a 4x2 127mm, 2 x 3 torp DD at T10?  That's about the only variations that I can see offering anything that might entice people away from the DDs in the main line.

 

Then again, they might use it as an excuse to shuffle the line -again-, or nerf them further.  Who knows.  If the original split proved anything, it's that WG really doesn't care much for IJN DDs.  Just look at what they did to Shiratsuyu....does anyone play that ship anymore now that its one means of being effective was removed because it was effective?

 

All in all, I have no hope for this.

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6 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Honestly, I don't see them going the 'gunboat' path, as they had the chance to do it with the original split and could not do it.  Likely Akizuki will remain the only attempt at this, and we'll see more 'general purpose' DD designs intended to fill the two missing slots without being either useful or capable.  Yugumo is a very balanced IJN DD now, and can function well as both gunboat and torpedo boat, while Shimakaze is a dedicated torpedo platform that suffers from not having capable torpedoes.  Maybe they might put up a three-quad launcher DD at T9, and a 4x2 127mm, 2 x 3 torp DD at T10?  That's about the only variations that I can see offering anything that might entice people away from the DDs in the main line.

 

Then again, they might use it as an excuse to shuffle the line -again-, or nerf them further.  Who knows.  If the original split proved anything, it's that WG really doesn't care much for IJN DDs.  Just look at what they did to Shiratsuyu....does anyone play that ship anymore now that its one means of being effective was removed because it was effective?

 

All in all, I have no hope for this.

 

I really hope they make T9 and T10 a continuation of the Akizuki philosophy, because it's a unique ship. We have enough torpedo boats and larger caliber gunboats. I like the idea of adding more low caliber machine gun DDs to the game.

Considering WG typically tries to keep ship branches consistent in playstyle post-split, I'd be really surprised if they didn't continue the Akizuki theme. 

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1 hour ago, tcbaker777 said:

ive heard something known as "Akizuki Kai" be mentioned for the T9 or T10 there

super_akizuki_coloured_by_tzoli-d7phuot.

That's the design I was referring to in the OP. It would certainly make a good counterpart to Shimakaze at T10. My only concern is with the potential unimaginativeness of the design. What I mean by that is either A) WG wouldn't give this and the T9(if this were the T10) an upgraded power plant, meaning it could be slower than Akizuki due to the extra weight of another turret, or B) WG does give them better power plants, but not quite enough and it only ends up being a bit faster than Akizuki. Looking at it, it will already have the drawbacks of a worse turning circle than Akizuki, and it'll likely have worse concealment since it has to be longer to accommodate that extra turret. Using Shimakaze's power plant would be intereting though.

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43 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

I really hope they make T9 and T10 a continuation of the Akizuki philosophy, because it's a unique ship. We have enough torpedo boats and larger caliber gunboats. I like the idea of adding more low caliber machine gun DDs to the game.

Considering WG typically tries to keep ship branches consistent in playstyle post-split, I'd be really surprised if they didn't continue the Akizuki theme. 

 

The problem is that there is no consistency in the playstyle of the IJN DD lines post-split.  Each DD is pretty much wherever the devs threw them, and none represent any single playstyle except Akizuki and Shimakaze.  Also, the Akizuki doesn't work without IFHE, and even then it can be rendered helpless if the enemy angles.

 

Low caliber DDs are fine in low tiers, but they really don't have usefulness in high-tier gameplay where the armor levels get high enough to bounce them regardless of angle.  Especially in a line that relies almost entirely on not being seen to stay alive.

 

Edited by Jakob_Knight

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2 hours ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Honestly, I don't see them going the 'gunboat' path, as they had the chance to do it with the original split and could not do it.  Likely Akizuki will remain the only attempt at this, and we'll see more 'general purpose' DD designs intended to fill the two missing slots without being either useful or capable.  Yugumo is a very balanced IJN DD now, and can function well as both gunboat and torpedo boat, while Shimakaze is a dedicated torpedo platform that suffers from not having capable torpedoes.  Maybe they might put up a three-quad launcher DD at T9, and a 4x2 127mm, 2 x 3 torp DD at T10?  That's about the only variations that I can see offering anything that might entice people away from the DDs in the main line.

 

Then again, they might use it as an excuse to shuffle the line -again-, or nerf them further.  Who knows.  If the original split proved anything, it's that WG really doesn't care much for IJN DDs.  Just look at what they did to Shiratsuyu....does anyone play that ship anymore now that its one means of being effective was removed because it was effective?

 

All in all, I have no hope for this.

I wish I wasn't on my phone right now, I could easily provide the link to Sub_O's response. He said something along the lines of "IJN machine gun intensifies" at the end of his comment. So I'm thinking that they're continuing with the Akizuki design for T9 and 10.

Edited by GhostSwordsman

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25 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

 

The problem is that there is no consistency in the playstyle of the IJN DD lines post-split.  Each DD is pretty much wherever the devs threw them, and none represent any single playstyle except Akizuki and Shimakaze.  Also, the Akizuki doesn't work without IFHE, and even then it can be rendered helpless if the enemy angles.

 

Low caliber DDs are fine in low tiers, but they really don't have usefulness in high-tier gameplay where the armor levels get high enough to bounce them regardless of angle.  Especially in a line that relies almost entirely on not being seen to stay alive.

 

 

You got it backwards, bud. The Akizuki is useless against angled targets only IF you don't take IFHE. That skill is explicitly taken so that you don't have to use AP exclusively when fighting DDs.

And low caliber DDs work perfectly fine at higher tiers, because their purpose is to DPM lightly armored targets and start fires on more heavily armored targets.

Edited by Kombat_W0MBAT

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IMO we have to many gun DD options in

  • tier 8
  • tier 9
  • tier 10
  1. With all nations represented mind you the IJN DD are the worst gun boats out there.

What Is missing in the high tiers is a dedicated DD torp boat whose sole service to the fleet is

  • hunt down BBs with hydro
  • hunt down BBs with radar
  • Hunt down BB  just for the joy of creating holes like  swiss cheese on there Citadels

Now these Torp boats should have

  •   A 45 sec torp reload,
  • 3 or 2 launchers of 3 or 2 torps MAX,
  • the lowest concealment in the game.
  • 8 mi MIN to 10 mi MAX torp range
  • Top speed torps in the tier
  • Decent to below avg guns caliber and with it
  • Decent to below avg gun range,

Why have a consumable like hydro to spot torps? When in a high tier match, torps interval is very predictable every 2:20mins. IMO there is no valid Torp DD treat that requires hydro.  Again its depending on how you play, with hydro, you're safe from torps. Especially if you're a BB with hydro your practically not going to get hit with torps.

That is what I would like to see in the higher tiers, more variety of game play seen in tiers 4 through 6. If not, there is no reason to play in a high tier game if there is lacking of valid threats to combat. It will get stale fast. Cheers ~! :cap_rambo:

Edited by Navalpride33
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On 4/3/2018 at 6:59 PM, GhostSwordsman said:
On 4/3/2018 at 6:04 PM, Jakob_Knight said:

Honestly, I don't see them going the 'gunboat' path, as they had the chance to do it with the original split and could not do it.  Likely Akizuki will remain the only attempt at this, and we'll see more 'general purpose' DD designs intended to fill the two missing slots without being either useful or capable.  Yugumo is a very balanced IJN DD now, and can function well as both gunboat and torpedo boat, while Shimakaze is a dedicated torpedo platform that suffers from not having capable torpedoes.  Maybe they might put up a three-quad launcher DD at T9, and a 4x2 127mm, 2 x 3 torp DD at T10?  That's about the only variations that I can see offering anything that might entice people away from the DDs in the main line.

 

Then again, they might use it as an excuse to shuffle the line -again-, or nerf them further.  Who knows.  If the original split proved anything, it's that WG really doesn't care much for IJN DDs.  Just look at what they did to Shiratsuyu....does anyone play that ship anymore now that its one means of being effective was removed because it was effective?

 

All in all, I have no hope for this.

I wish I wasn't on my phone right now, I could easily provide the link to Sub_O's response. He said something along the lines of "IJN machine gun intensifies" at the end of his comment. So I'm thinking that they're continuing with the Akizuki design for T9 and 10.

Ah, found the reddit post where Sub_O mentions possibly being able to give more details on the missing T9 and T10 IJN DDs.

 

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Quick suggestion:1 Additional turret, + HP, better speed and turning circle, quintuple torpedoes, and IFHE implemented as a base skill for t9+.

IFHE as a base skill for t9+ shell would boost the fire chance of the ships and provide 4 additional points for players who want to go AFT, Manual AA or RL. Right now every Akizuki player are stuck going IFHE if they want to perform well in any kind of way with the Akizuki. I believe this is a bad design and should be implemented with the ships.

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On 4/3/2018 at 6:54 PM, GhostSwordsman said:

That's the design I was referring to in the OP. It would certainly make a good counterpart to Shimakaze at T10. My only concern is with the potential unimaginativeness of the design. What I mean by that is either A) WG wouldn't give this and the T9(if this were the T10) an upgraded power plant, meaning it could be slower than Akizuki due to the extra weight of another turret, or B) WG does give them better power plants, but not quite enough and it only ends up being a bit faster than Akizuki. Looking at it, it will already have the drawbacks of a worse turning circle than Akizuki, and it'll likely have worse concealment since it has to be longer to accommodate that extra turret. Using Shimakaze's power plant would be intereting though.

It's also totally fake.

Kai Akizuki is Akizuki using Shimakaze's hull and powerplant, along with a quintuple or sextuple launcher, but also the removal of the fast torp reloading device

A further modified Kai Akizuki uses the Type1/5 12.7cm/50 Twin AA gun mount
Type 1/5 guns have comparable performance to USN 127mm/54 and probably also have 9% fire chance per shell.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_5-50_t1.php

Akizuki

  • Main Guns: 4x Twin 10cm/65 gun turrets
  • Torpedoes: 1x Quad 61cm torpedo launcher + Quick Reload device
  • AA Guns: 7x Triple 25mm, 18x Single 25mm
  • Propulsion: 52,000shp, 33.0 knots top speed
  • Range: 8,000nm / 18knots
  • Displacement: 2,701t standard / 3,759t full load
  • Waterline Length: 132.00m / Width: 11.60m / Draft: 4.15m (4.51m full)

Kai Akizuki

  • Main Guns: 4x Twin 10cm/65 gun turrets
  • Torpedoes: 1x Quintuple or Sextuple 61cm torpedo launcher (no Quick Reload device)
  • AA Guns: Equal or Better than Akizuki
  • Propulsion: 75,000shp, 35.5 - 36.7 knots top speed
  • Range: 8,000nm / 18knots
  • Displacement: 3,030t standard / 3,580t full load
  • Waterline Length: 134.00m / Width: 12.00m / Draft: 4.15m

Kai Akizuki (Modernized)

  • Main Guns: 4x Type5 Twin 12.7cm/50 gun turrets
  • Torpedoes: 1x Quintuple or Sextuple 61cm torpedo launcher (no Quick Reload device)
  • AA Guns: Lots of Twin Bofors, Many Single 25mm
  • Propulsion: 75,000shp, 35.5 - 36.7 knots top speed
  • Range: 8,000nm / 18knots
  • Displacement: ???
  • Waterline Length: 134.00m / Width: 12.00m / Draft: 4.15m?

DPM of guns

  • 10cm/65, 20rpm, 8 guns, HE: 208,000 pdpm
  • 10cm/65, 20rpm, 8 guns, AP: 272,000 pdpm
  • 12.7cm/50, 18rpm, 8 guns, HE: 259,200 pdpm
  • 12.7cm/50, 18rpm, 8 guns, AP: 345,600 pdpm
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6 hours ago, GhostSwordsman said:

 

Ah, found the reddit post where Sub_O mentions possibly being able to give more details on the missing T9 and T10 IJN DDs.

 

 

Well, we know their intent when they were doing the IJN split was to make a stealthy general-purpose DD line and a gunboat line, but what they produced was a chaotic assembly of ships in two branches that had no purposes other than as places to put ships they wanted in the game.  We had Shiratsuyu, which was clearly a torpedo or 'general purpose' boat in the same branch as Akazuki, a clear gunboat, while we had  Akatsuki, featuring more gun and torpedo firepower than Shiratsuyu but less concealment, in the main 'stealthy general purpose' line. 

 

WG has a habit of saying one thing, then doing another.  I'll wait until we actually see any new destroyers in the live client before I believe what they tell us.

Edited by Jakob_Knight

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

It's also totally fake.

Kai Akizuki is Akizuki using Shimakaze's hull and powerplant, along with a quintuple or sextuple launcher, but also the removal of the fast torp reloading device

A further modified Kai Akizuki uses the Type1/5 12.7cm/50 Twin AA gun mount
Type 1/5 guns have comparable performance to USN 127mm/54 and probably also have 9% fire chance per shell.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_5-50_t1.php

Akizuki

  • Main Guns: 4x Twin 10cm/65 gun turrets
  • Torpedoes: 1x Quad 61cm torpedo launcher + Quick Reload device
  • AA Guns: 7x Triple 25mm, 18x Single 25mm
  • Propulsion: 52,000shp, 33.0 knots top speed
  • Range: 8,000nm / 18knots
  • Displacement: 2,701t standard / 3,759t full load
  • Waterline Length: 132.00m / Width: 11.60m / Draft: 4.15m (4.51m full)

Kai Akizuki

  • Main Guns: 4x Twin 10cm/65 gun turrets
  • Torpedoes: 1x Quintuple or Sextuple 61cm torpedo launcher (no Quick Reload device)
  • AA Guns: Equal or Better than Akizuki
  • Propulsion: 75,000shp, 35.5 - 36.7 knots top speed
  • Range: 8,000nm / 18knots
  • Displacement: 3,030t standard / 3,580t full load
  • Waterline Length: 134.00m / Width: 12.00m / Draft: 4.15m

Kai Akizuki (Modernized)

  • Main Guns: 4x Type5 Twin 12.7cm/50 gun turrets
  • Torpedoes: 1x Quintuple or Sextuple 61cm torpedo launcher (no Quick Reload device)
  • AA Guns: Lots of Twin Bofors, Many Single 25mm
  • Propulsion: 75,000shp, 35.5 - 36.7 knots top speed
  • Range: 8,000nm / 18knots
  • Displacement: ???
  • Waterline Length: 134.00m / Width: 12.00m / Draft: 4.15m?

DPM of guns

  • 10cm/65, 20rpm, 8 guns, HE: 208,000 pdpm
  • 10cm/65, 20rpm, 8 guns, AP: 272,000 pdpm
  • 12.7cm/50, 18rpm, 8 guns, HE: 259,200 pdpm
  • 12.7cm/50, 18rpm, 8 guns, AP: 345,600 pdpm

This information I can confirm is all correct. Thanks for keeping on top of this MrDeaf :)

As for how many of the Bofors WG will put on it is really up to them, and historically speaking the Japanese only designed a single gun bofors but there wasn't anything keeping them from making a twin gun mount just issues in the war with building them.

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oh jeeez guys let try to not stray into OP land..

 

All that is needed for a tier X second line is take the current Akizuki as is, reduce the turn radius my 50 meters.. reduce the rudder shift time bY 10-20%,  Give it a couple more knots of speed (to 35 knots), give it that 6th upgrade slot like any other tier X,  and give it the same torpedo options as the Shimmy (ie: 20k, 12k, 8 k) and you end with a very viable tier 10 IJN gun boat DD.  

The Akizuki can hang as is in a tier X fight, (I end up in them all the time.. No big deal) even with only  its stock 10 k torps she;s still a bit of a beat with those guns if you get the right situation, or can create same.

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