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mundipuddi

Clan Abuse of Random Games

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I'm not a forum jockey so please excuse any missteps I may make here (I notice calling out aimassist is highly frowned upon so just be cool if I sound like a tremendous betch or whatever).

A recent random game had 10 members from the same clan in it, six on one side and four on the other.  Now this seems a tad interesting that so many players from the same clan were in it and with a near equal spread between teams.  It would seem that they'd have to syncronize their pressing of the "start" button to ensure enough of them were in the same game, random matchmaking and all that.  (edit/addition: Now that I think of it, the six on my team were all cruisers and destroyers while the four on the opposing team were battleships.) This was discussed in chat in game then rapid deleting of ships began far earlier in the game than could be expected in far too 'pro' a manner (ships that should have been undetectable getting stomped, playing opposite sides of map to avoid hurting eachother) for a lower league clan, well, people began to wonder.   To top it off, one of the players in that ten was one I had come across before that pulled some fancy effing shooting for someone with so low a rank (and yes, I realize I'm a steaming pile of doody by all standards so feel free to point it out, champ.  Point being, they're barely much better than me, stats wise, so judicious usage of aimassist, perhaps?  People do that right? Devstriking in the first minute to imbalance the opponent's team to ensure a win and chug a good load of xp/damage in the process, then go on to be just your average player for the rest of the game; don't wanna be too suspiciously far ahead of everyone else, but just enough, etc. ).  I checked their unique username in google and it was all links associating them to cheat/hack/actualhacking forums, like lot of them, where one might get things for WoW among other games over the last ~5 years (and a cute albeit awkward dating site profile/pic, teehee;3 ).  These clan members turned out to have the top scores, too, so who knows, maybe they're just all really good, right?

So my concern is about clans (or really anyone, but this seems explicit and addressable) grouping together using an out-of-game audio communications app to coordinate and share info to farm kills/damage/points.  I've seen it in other games and I was wondering if this was on anyone's radar here (tried some searches, none that show action was taken to prevent it).

Relevant, but the argument that anyone could share info via audio app is [edited]: that a clan sync drops ...*and with these specific circumstances surrounding all this*...says a shitton.

 

Edited by mundipuddi
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To start, I think that 3rd party communicstion software is fine. Like you said, it help coordinate people who are divisioning together which helps your team out. Its very good for communities imo to help enable lower skilled players and to help build friendships and communities. 

That being said, the second comment I wanted to share are that of "sync dropping" where multiple divisions from a clan drop at the same time while in voice channel. I, personally, do not enjoy doing this becausr 90% of the time, someone in your clan will be negativly affected by the outcome of the match. However, i know several clans have fun doing this by having the pleasure of killing someone they know... it is quite satasfying tbh ;)

As for the cheating part.... some people are really good, however i am not so ignorant as to believe there are no cheating devices/programs out there.... i have seen one that was shut down by wg a while ago and with the internet being how it is.... yea there are some out there. I would suggest reporting and REAL proof you might see to the support page. Dispersion isnt really able to be cheated because it is server side, not client side, but weird stuff does happen.

 

Welp, those are my thoughts on the matter, hope they helped at least a bit :)

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I guess my question is why doesn't WoW just limit the number of clan members in a game like this or at least keep them on the same team so these issues are

eliminated?   6 vs 4 is substantial enough to get a view of the whole map. A couple from the same clan on each side, not so much.

Edited by mundipuddi

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You don't want 10 members of the same clan on one team. If they are anywhere near decent or better the game will be over in like 6-7 mins with the other side getting stomped badly.

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Sadly, some people do not care how they win, only that they win.

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10 hours ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

You don't want 10 members of the same clan on one team. If they are anywhere near decent or better the game will be over in like 6-7 mins with the other side getting stomped badly.

But yea, you don't want 6 on your side and 4 on the opposing side, either....in fact, I think you'd want it much less so for the stated reason of info-sharing where everyone outside the clan is the enemy, even your random-teammates.  Unless you like being farmed by coordinating scoundrels?  And what of matchmaking?  Doesn't it ensure comparable talent is put up against them?   ....or is that why so many games seem imbalanced, aka "bad teams"?

 

Clearly the idea would be to have them spread out between separate games.  Allowing so many eyes on to both sides of a battle of, people that are much more likely to be in communication with each other outside the game's purview seems a ridiculous oversight.  This latter point addressing the mindnumbing idiocy of people in the linked thread stating that "well any randoms could do it so we shouldn't limit clans from doing it".  I haven't come up with a response to "limiting this would get rid of benefits for clans ya know"....   And it seems some people can't consider that the cheating isn't absolute; they would pick and choose opportunities and not take all to avoid obvious recognition of their duplicity. 

Edited by mundipuddi

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I’ve sync dropped in three different clans.  We all played to win for our team. Typically we’d split out to separate chat channels. If we got a chance to wreck a clanmate, AWESOME. 

The only time I felt really bad was when we sync dropped 10 or more players into Tier 3. Regular seal clubbing is bad enough...

I am NOT saying that other clans may abuse sync dropping. There have been a few times when two divisions from the same clan were on opposite sides and I began to wonder if everything was Kosher about their play. 

Finally, there is no reason to assume a correlation between clan membership and cheating. I do think there was a new aim assist hack over the past 2 months but it seems to have disappeared with the latest major patch. If a cheat is out there, anyone might use it. Blaming clans for cheating is just cheap and dumb. 

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10 hours ago, Landing_Skipper said:

I’ve sync dropped in three different clans.  We all played to win for our team. Typically we’d split out to separate chat channels. If we got a chance to wreck a clanmate, AWESOME. 

The only time I felt really bad was when we sync dropped 10 or more players into Tier 3. Regular seal clubbing is bad enough...

I am NOT saying that other clans may abuse sync dropping. There have been a few times when two divisions from the same clan were on opposite sides and I began to wonder if everything was Kosher about their play. 

Finally, there is no reason to assume a correlation between clan membership and cheating. I do think there was a new aim assist hack over the past 2 months but it seems to have disappeared with the latest major patch. If a cheat is out there, anyone might use it. Blaming clans for cheating is just cheap and dumb. 

Good thing I didn't blame any clans for cheating without specific circumstances to ask why this gaping hole is allowed for coordinated farming(dunno if this is the right term, but I like it).  Cuz that'd be cheap and dumb, blaming in a broad, vapid manner. But yes, I am trying to get to the center of this issue with all the couching circumstances in place and realize my claim about the player using aimassist is weak at best and the implications of his character and activity being based on a google search is hardly evidence...but(!) it doesn't make my central claim any less valid.   Sync dropping isn't inherently bad, it's what people do with it that can potentially be bad.   So yea, 3-ship clan divs and sync dropping is fine.  It's fun to play with yr clan buds. But when sync dropping is done in enough numbers to allow for this specific kind of cheating...and then obviously the specific kind of cheating seems pretty strongly to have taken place... which is impossible to gather evidence for.....it's frustrating.  So it seems it's ok to allow the potential for a specific cheating, and not ever never no never patch a hole up that allows it.  Cuz amorphous, ineffible "benefits".  I get it, it's fun to play with clan members in a random, but there should be some limitations on it so this specific kind of cheating isn't allowed to even happen.  I'll even go so far as to recommend where the line should be drawn.  No more than one 3-ship clan division in a game, or, if sync dropping to keep a maximum number of clan members on only one team, say 6 max since that was how many were on my team this one game, or keeping clan members to 1-2 per each team (not a fan of this last one since they can just hide and slink around passing info while most are too busy playing).   But the initial scenario described of 6(+6) vs 4(+8) allows for too much effery.   Maybe I missed the long and sundry history of this topic as it's swathed and spun its way across the internet over the millenia but what am I missing here as to why this is even allowed?  What are these "benefits" of which some speak in the linked thread?   There was only the vaguest mention of them.  And the saddest posts are from those people that say "well *I* wouldn't take advantage of that so no one else would! I'm so pumped trying to kill my clanmate, dude!"    That's not an argument against the possiblity of it.  "I wouldn't, so no one else would".   I guess the only sadder argument to do nothing is "some do it, most don't".  Ok....?   Crimes and cheating are generally outliers as is so we should just ignore the potential for them because they're outliers?   Huh?  

Edited by mundipuddi
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 Isn't there a pending "fix" addressing sync dropping or has it already happened... ?  

I thought it was just mentioned in a patch notes or developer diaries...

Edited by Warped_1
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2 hours ago, mundipuddi said:

I'm not a forum jockey so please excuse any missteps I may make here (I notice calling out aimassist is highly frowned upon so just be cool if I sound like a tremendous betch or whatever).

A recent random game had 10 members from the same clan in it, six on one side and four on the other.  Now this seems a tad interesting that so many players from the same clan were in it and with a near equal spread between teams.  It would seem that they'd have to syncronize their pressing of the "start" button to ensure enough of them were in the same game, random matchmaking and all that.  (edit/addition: Now that I think of it, the six on my team were all cruisers and destroyers while the four on the opposing team were battleships.) This was discussed in chat in game then rapid deleting of ships began far earlier in the game than could be expected in far too 'pro' a manner (ships that should have been undetectable getting stomped, playing opposite sides of map to avoid hurting eachother) for a lower league clan, well, people began to wonder.   To top it off, one of the players in that ten was one I had come across before that pulled some fancy effing shooting for someone with so low a rank (and yes, I realize I'm a steaming pile of doody by all standards so feel free to point it out, champ.  Point being, they're barely much better than me, stats wise, so judicious usage of aimassist, perhaps?  People do that right? Devstriking in the first minute to imbalance the opponent's team to ensure a win and chug a good load of xp/damage in the process, then go on to be just your average player for the rest of the game; don't wanna be too suspiciously far ahead of everyone else, but just enough, etc. ).  I checked their unique username in google and it was all links associating them to cheat/hack/actualhacking forums, like lot of them, where one might get things for WoW among other games over the last ~5 years (and a cute albeit awkward dating site profile/pic, teehee;3 ).  These clan members turned out to have the top scores, too, so who knows, maybe they're just all really good, right?

So my concern is about clans (or really anyone, but this seems explicit and addressable) grouping together using an out-of-game audio communications app to coordinate and share info to farm kills/damage/points.  I've seen it in other games and I was wondering if this was on anyone's radar here (tried some searches, none that show action was taken to prevent it).

Relevant, but the argument that anyone could share info via audio app is [edited]: that a clan sync drops says a shitton.

 

A bit late to the convo, but regarding the whole stats and cheating thing- Never correlate someone's stats/values with their ability. When talking about actual ranks that were procured from playing Ranked Mode, don't assume somebody that is Rank 1 is god-tier, and never assume an unranked individual is bad or can be ignored without consequence. Tons of people choose not to play ranked cause of the stress factor behind it, and their dislike for the ranked rewards. While many people can easily hit Rank 1 just by playing game after game until they meet the criteria to move up, but in the end are still honestly really bad players.

Simple fact of the matter is that a Battleship can easily delete any ship (yes even other battleships), and it only takes the shells to not go all over the place (which honestly isn't rare) and to hit the right part of a ship. 20km+ shots might seem far fetched, but the victim has to ask themselves if they were sailing in an extremely predictable manner or not. Even if not, predicting movements of your targets is an integral part of the game, no matter what range. Having taken part in numerous competitive WoWs competitions, contests, teams, etc. it is pretty much expected that you can 100%HP a Cruiser down to death or near-death as possible with your battleship when they make a mistake in movement, or present you with the opportunity. The standards are quite high as far as top teams/players are concerned..

 

1 hour ago, Warped_1 said:

 Isn't there a pending "fix" addressing sync dropping or has it already happened... ?  

I thought it was just mentioned in a patch notes or developer diaries...

How would you even fix sync dropping? People have been doing that since the game came out of beta (even in it..) The MM tries to balance divisions equally numerically, and yes it completely disregards where those people came from, and who the people involved are (as far as I'm aware).. But even if you added restrictions of some sort, you will not remove the whole sync drop thing. One of the ideas to limit clans on one side falls flat because people must be in the exact same clan to fall into that restriction, and a lot of the time, people in different clans or those who are clan-less still sync drop with friends. Another reason it won't be as effective as one would think is cause tons of the more developed and well-known clans have numerous sub-clans because the 40-50 member limit is incredibly hindering to said clans. Ergo, more clans need to be made to fit all individuals.

It's too much of a complicated thing to do to try to change, but honestly sync drops are a lot of the time for simple, light-hearted get-together-with-clan-mates time. Unfortunately yes, some times those syncing clans will heavily populate one side, but a lot of the time they will also be equally split apart. Sync dropping gets bad when people on opposing sides refuse to touch or shoot each other. That is when it gets on the more unacceptable side. But if you find yourself facing a stacked enemy team, it's not an impossible game.. Just play your best, sink targets and give it your all. I have played against a team that had NINE people in comms once, we still beat them really hard cause they did not play smart..

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i'm no expert on the matter, but i would wager that anyone willing to sync-drop for stat boosting or any motive other than lighthearted fun isn't going to be all that great at the game to begin with, and it won't make much difference. if they're refusing to shoot each other, they're hurting their stats more than helping, and someone has to be on the losing team.

i've been in a few games with sync-dropped clans, but i've never actually seen them go out of their way to try to rig a match. i have, however, noticed one clan that purposely found each other and dueled. that one was pretty funny to watch.

honestly, if a clan was willing to go through that much trouble to try and rig a match for whatever reason, i'd be sad for them, not upset with them. the fact that they feel so inadequate that they can't play the game normally is almost enough to bring one to tears. :cap_tea:

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Sync dropping should not be allowed at all in "random" games. Than what would be random about it?? Random players,random maps. Period.We all know MM needs a healthy update ,eliminating  sync dropping should be top priority. 

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Sync dropping IMO is great and should never be removed. I want to play with my clan mates, not random pubs, that are often clueless and wont work as a team. Every time that I've dropped with clanmates or friends, the clanmates or friends were the priority targets if you could engage them. Its far more fun having bragging rights that I killed a clanmate than a pub. Also since the misguided limit on the size of clans in game, but are forced into having multiple clans under the same umbrella aka XXX_a XXX_B etc.

Sorry just because a clan sync drops and is on opposing sides, doesnt remove the mechanics of the game and unless they are using a cheating program, they still cant spot or hit you beyond what they normally could. If they weren't using hacks, you got stomped by superior players.

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Personally because I enjoy playing with clanmates more than pubs, I'd rather have more than 3 in a division in random battles. Though I understand why it doesn't happen, I still have more fun with clanmates than pubs.

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People always look for reasons that they are not as good as they think they should be.  Most people aren't going to take the time to work on their game skills via film study or submitting re-plays to high skilled players for review.  At some point the frustration begins to mount as more games are played but progress doesn't come, the belief that simply playing MORE should improve ones win rate becomes central.  Yet experience at being bad does not make one become good, it simply makes one believe that there are unseen "forces" that are shaping the game, things that others are taking advantage that are being denied them. This forum is the venting place for these frustrations, the home of the conspiracy theories about rigged MM for people with 30+ days of premium time,  aim assist bots that give more citadels, radar/hydro/torps/whatever needs to be nerfed, and in this thread - the idea that clans that sync drop are somehow breaking the game and giving the players an unfair advantage.

I can't speak for what a clan full of sub 47% players could hope to achieve by sync dropping, because I'm not sure they even understand what they are trying to do in a regular random game.   I do know what a clan full of over 55% players hopes to achieve, either flooding one side for a better chance of winning ( RARE AS HELL due to how MM spreads divisions now ) or simply for the fun of it when you are opposing each other.  Generally we are yelling at each other in chat to quit picking on each other, because given a choice of targets I am always going to try and KILL the guys in my clan FIRST.  Why?  Because they are 95% of the time the BEST players on the other side, and if I want the win ( and  I ALWAYS want to win ) I am better off killing them as early as possible, because good players in this game know how to close out a win, mediocre and bad players don't.

I don't like sync dropping because I know that there will almost always be a split of two divisions when trying to sync drop.  I hate losing, and putting a 2 or 3 man skilled division on the other team hurts my chances of winning.  I think that you will find that all players who win a lot, hate giving up any thing that might make them lose, and I am SURE AS HELL not giving my clan mates any info to help them farm damage or kills - I want to farm and kill THEM.

Once again, I have no idea what bad players hope to achieve by sync dropping, and actually I am pretty sure that 3 sub 47% players in a division are hurting their own chances of winning just by being in a division together - coordinating your bad play with voice comms is not really advantageous.  I would venture that it's just more fun to play with friends and chat while playing, which is kind of the point of the game to begin with. 

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hmph.   yea i anticipated all this and then also made it clear it's about *abuse* of sync dropped battles, not simply sync dropping.  no one's really addressed that it is available as an option and could be stifled in various ways.  Clans wanting to retain the ability to play against eachother shouldn't leave the gate completely wide open to abuse.  Clan rights shouldn't trump individual players' right to a fair game free from coordinated designs of cheating against them.  That it's possible is more important than that it's unlikely.  And I appreciate that there are players with integrity out there speaking up, thank you for that.  It just doesn't speak for those that wouldn't chime in sincerely because those uncivilized beasts do partake of this supposed "rarest sin of all".

 

Edited by mundipuddi

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We @ BWC do enjoy syncdropping because it's a lot more fun killing your clan member on the opposite end, especially if you can smalk talk while doing it. Most of the time, we end up on opposite teams and the fun begins. 

However abusing syncdropping to farm stats or to influence the outcome of a game, is certainly not accepted as it would violate our gaming policy, which would undoubtedly result in strikes and banishment from our clan. Cheers,

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17 hours ago, mundipuddi said:

But yea, you don't want 6 on your side and 4 on the opposing side, either....in fact, I think you'd want it much less so for the stated reason of info-sharing where everyone outside the clan is the enemy, even your random-teammates.  Unless you like being farmed by coordinating scoundrels?  And what of matchmaking?  Doesn't it ensure comparable talent is put up against them?   ....or is that why so many games seem imbalanced, aka "bad teams"?

 

Clearly the idea would be to have them spread out between separate games.  Allowing so many eyes on to both sides of a battle of, people that are much more likely to be in communication with each other outside the game's purview seems a ridiculous oversight.  This latter point addressing the mindnumbing idiocy of people in the linked thread stating that "well any randoms could do it so we shouldn't limit clans from doing it".  I haven't come up with a response to "limiting this would get rid of benefits for clans ya know"....   And it seems some people can't consider that the cheating isn't absolute; they would pick and choose opportunities and not take all to avoid obvious recognition of their duplicity. 

Umm hell yeah I do, we enjoy killing each other more than anything else when in the same battle whether by chance or sync drop.

We also do a kill the admiral event in randoms where we try to sync drop and get him on the opposite team. If one of us kills him (no TKs allowed) that player gets doubloons. So there's no way in hell we'd want sync drops eliminated.

Also, I've not observed what you are talking about very frequently. Most clans I've seen don't need to play that way.

 

17 hours ago, Landing_Skipper said:

I’ve sync dropped in three different clans.  We all played to win for our team. Typically we’d split out to separate chat channels. If we got a chance to wreck a clanmate, AWESOME. 

The only time I felt really bad was when we sync dropped 10 or more players into Tier 3. Regular seal clubbing is bad enough...

I am NOT saying that other clans may abuse sync dropping. There have been a few times when two divisions from the same clan were on opposite sides and I began to wonder if everything was Kosher about their play. 

Finally, there is no reason to assume a correlation between clan membership and cheating. I do think there was a new aim assist hack over the past 2 months but it seems to have disappeared with the latest major patch. If a cheat is out there, anyone might use it. Blaming clans for cheating is just cheap and dumb. 

^^^^ This, excellent post

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Well now.... if a member of my clan was in the opposing team???

I'd enjoy killing him before he got me.... its only a game do not forget... and what the OP said shouldn't matter TILL... IF EVER.... WoWs becomes a professional sport.

OH, as for aim assist... they should not only be banned for life from ALL wargaming.net games and servers, but named and shamed, and an area set up named after them soi we abuse them to let off steam, NOT that they would ever be able to read it as banned from all forums as well... their IP should be banned... and a reward offered, as a "Texas" if anyone can prove a banned cheater was back, somehow, under a bogus name....

I mean WHY cheat? Any wins/kills/awards etc etc you got would be meaningless... except to remind you that you are a cheat...

Its not hard to play this game, OR kill ships... I cannot understand why.... but then.... humans... strange bunch they are.

Edited by kiwi1960

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OK there is one form of sync dropping which is outright cheating and I know that it takes place:  Ranked Battles.

Divisions are explicitly prohibited but there’s nothing stopping 2 or 3 guys, same clan or not, from sync dropping on common coms. I’ve seen battles where there clearly were coordinated tactics for one side to win and someone on the other side to save a star. I also know of one clan where a small subset of players thought this was perfectly alright.  Common coms in Ranked that is.   It is not. (They did not go the extra step of manipulating results with players on both sides, and the vast majority of clan mates thought this was wrong.)

Keep in mind this has nothing directly related to clans. Any 2 or more players can do it. 

And then there’s the enforcement problem. You can’t enforce a prohibition with all of the options for group communication.  Just can’t do it. 

P.S. to the OP, you clearly connected clan membership with aimbots and cheating. Don’t be dishonest about that. The fact is that any player might have access to a cheat. Furthermore, I worry less about a player in a good, competitive clan possibly cheating than Random unaffiliated players. 

Edited by Landing_Skipper
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We have tried it with 50/50 results with 3 man divisions...but we had much more fun in Training against each other being easier to setup the teams and circumstances of the battle, map etc and conditions of battle and moving people to specific teams and hiding what each other will play....very fun indeed! I see our clan doing that more in the off Clan Battle season to keep the competitive spirit going while costing nothing at all so no pressure but to have fun....so many that games were originally meant to have some fun not to grind out levels....for what? Don't fall into the trap of companies or clans to get you hooked into mindless game play....if your not having fun its time to quit or re-think things....Just noticed I hit my 4000 Battle mark.....every game I have had some fun....noticed poster above me has 19719 battles...damn dood!

 

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CLAN ABUSE OF SYNC-DROPS:

I dislike sync-dropping, due to the potential for exploitation, as the OP mentioned. It's not common, but it is possible. With large groups of voice-connected players, the odds rise.

However, from a matchmaking code standpoint, fixing this gets complicated. Matchmaking logic is one of the most delicate parts of the game. Screw it up and nobody can play! For this reason, I would be surprised if wargaming.net changed it any time soon. Nevertheless, if I were instructing the programmers, here is the change I would make in MM logic:

  • Do not allow more than one person or division per clan in a battle. This means that once a player or division is assigned into a battle by the MM, no other player from the same clan can participate.

(a) A division of two or three from the same clan can be matched into a battle, but that's all. No additional divisions or players from that clan are allowed in that battle. i.e., no sync-drops.

(b) If a division composed of multiple clans is matched into a battle, nobody else from any of those clans is allowed in that battle.

(c) Therefore, once a clan player is assigned into a battle, no other player from that clan can also be in that same battle (on either side). A slowdown in match-making is expected, but the small size of clans (30-50) remains a good mitigation for this side-effect.

(d) Divisions formed after players are dropped into battle are not affected (of course, at that point matchmaking is done).

Corollary (c) is required, since the order of actions inside the matchmaker is unpredictable due to players dropping out as the matchmaker is filling up the battle slots. I warned you, matching logic can be weird, and frequently difficult to grasp. Any number of computer games have failed due to problems in their matchmaker.

This does not protect against players who only have non-clan voice coordination, but tracking that is clearly hopeless. Yes, this MM addition could act as a small brake on clans, but the potential benefits of price breaks and clan war glory certainly outweigh that. I know that this addition to the MM's logic wouldn't discourage me from finding a new clan. In addition, to discourage non-clan voice coordination, raise the maximum size of a clan to a larger number - such as 100 players (allowed in World of Tanks).

 

CHEATS:

Theoretically, it would be possible for a sufficiently talented software engineer to create a gunsight overlay that predicted future target ship locations and showed you where to aim so your shells would hit that spot. In order words, replicate what very experienced players already do with their brain. Of course, the display would quickly get very complicated (not unlike the counter-intuitive F-16's "historical" funnel gunsight). You'd still have to exercise judgment, and your estimation of likely enemy course and speed might be wrong, just like super-unicum players are sometimes wrong, not to mention the (presumably) server's gleeful additions of dispersion RNG on each shell fired.

However, I know of no such software in existence right now. Youtube videos convincing display that many good players have programmed their brains to do the same thing. Therefore, I agree with most people who say it's more likely player skill than special software at work.

Overall, I'd say the most common "cheat" is that the matchmaker puts together players of all abilities, from the most clueless noob to the most experienced expert. Personally, after my first 1,000 battles of poor stats, I've started a long, difficult and painful "retraining" program to get even close to 50% victory,. and to raise my WTR from its laughter inducing value (currently in the low 600s).  Still, it will be another thousand or more battles of serious effort to get out of the hole I've dug, so that the cumulative average is even half decent. Even if you can't win the battle, every extra bit of damage you can do before sinking with improve your stats that tiny amount more. Better averages are made lots of those tiny efforts.

Seriously, check out my stats at Warships Today (https://na.warships.today/player/1000158646/Yasha). It's good for a bit of ROLFMAO fun, if nothing else.

 

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On 4/2/2018 at 11:34 PM, Landing_Skipper said:

I’ve sync dropped in three different clans.  We all played to win for our team. Typically we’d split out to separate chat channels. If we got a chance to wreck a clanmate, AWESOME. 

The only time I felt really bad was when we sync dropped 10 or more players into Tier 3. Regular seal clubbing is bad enough...

I am NOT saying that other clans may abuse sync dropping. There have been a few times when two divisions from the same clan were on opposite sides and I began to wonder if everything was Kosher about their play. 

Finally, there is no reason to assume a correlation between clan membership and cheating. I do think there was a new aim assist hack over the past 2 months but it seems to have disappeared with the latest major patch. If a cheat is out there, anyone might use it. Blaming clans for cheating is just cheap and dumb. 

This.

 

Some guys in our clan like to sync drop.  Usually it is because we have 4-5 guys who want to play together, so it is too many for a single division.  We will try to get on the same team.  If we are not on the same team we try our best to win.  We don't rig games, reveal info to the clanmates on the enemy side, or otherwise try to throw the game.  More often than not sync dropping is the OPPOSITE of what you want to do for stat padding, as you often end up cannibalizing each other's win rate if you are on the opposite teams and cannibalizing each other's damage/kills if you are on the same team.

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Also for those against sync dropping (I still don't get why besides that you like to cry) until wargaming increases the clan size you will NEVER be able to stop this. Because of the clan size limits, you have clans XXX-a XXX-b etc Wargaming sees these as different clans. So until that is addressed, it will be impossible to stop sync dropping.

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So on a Thursday Afternoon, my 4 clan-mates and I want to play to have fun... for just the reason we joined a clan= To play with others and have social interactions with fellow gamers.  We are on Discord together. two different divisions.. having fun.   Counting in to have a chance to play with or against each other is not wrong! Check our stats.. none of us are Unicom players. We play with the intent of helping our (random) team win and having fun. 

-what is the point of divisions then?

-what is the point of Clan membership for average potatoes if you cant play together? talk together? cut up together in a unified team effort to win?

-Cheaters are cheaters... does not equal clans are cheaters.

-outside voice comms for clans are only used due to the limits of in game voice comms

REALLY?!?!?!? limit the number of clan members in a random battle? Why the :etc_swear:would I play WOWs if I cant play Along side and Against my friends?!!!! DO We Have to Create a closed game without rewards or the challenge of other players? I learn a lot from the better players in randoms... not the ones who cry all the time- but the ones with better skills and tactics. Playing randoms gives so much more that training rooms can give. Playing with clan members is not a cheat by any stretch of the imagination.

It is multiplayer Gaming!  otherwise create solo campaigns or join xbox and PlayStation and play alone in your mom's basement or your upstairs room alone.  Really.. call out cheating! not playing together.. people playing together for fun.. oh no?! that is not the problem!

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