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Happy668

Moskva concealment vs IFHE?

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first for 220mm guns, is IFHE even worth it? it will overmatch 32mm without

and concealment, since i will keep firing at whatever in range, will concealment be useful except at the beginning of the game?

Edited by Happy668

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Moskva has 220mm guns and her HE already pens BB bows just fine without it. I run FP and CE on mine (even though I hardly ever play it)

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I went with concealment. There are times when you need to break contact with the enemy to heal damage, in which case the extra concealment is useful. Also, if you have the opportunity to reposition when there aren't targets in range that you can hit. Let the enemy be surprised where you pop up.

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7 minutes ago, Happy668 said:

first for 202mm guns, is IFHE even worth it? it will overmatch 32mm without

and concealment, since i will keep firing at whatever in range, will concealment be useful except at the beginning of the game?

As poster above said IFHE has no use on 220 mm guns...and concealment also helps when youre trying to dis-engage so it has more than one use..that said even with CE its still like 13km concealment..so its not great.

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Almost at the Moskva myself, and I've already made up my mind about going CE first.  The guns are already good enough as they are.  IFHE can wait.

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thanks guys, so no IFHE

as about the upgrade, the reduce reload time will increase turret turn time, will it make the ship out turn the turret? i really hate that the hard turn will make the guns off mark

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While you know the answer regarding IFHE already, I'll just fuel you with the reasoning for why this is the case, so that you can understand why IFHE has less uses, and that you can make this judgement for any other ship in the game as well.

Your penetration with HE shells is in case of the Moskva calibre/4, then this value gets rounded to the next closest full value and then you take away 1mm, this is the maximum thickness you will penetrate with HE. The exceptions are those ships which penetrate 1/4 of the caliber, which are all German guns of 128mm and above, excluding Destroyers and the Hermelin, and all the Britis Tech Tree Battleships.

So for Moskva now it's:
220mm / 6 = 36.666mm , rounded to 37mm. So your HE shells will penetrate any armor plate that is 36mm or less.

IFHE will multiply the 36.666mm with x1.3, so 36.666mm x 1.3 = 47.666, rounded to 48mm. Now your HE shells penetrate 47mm or less.

 

Now we get to the part where it gets time-consuming, you look at the ships you are likely to face and check the armor profiles, listing where we would gain an advantage. I made this list in that case, so enjoy~

1. North Carolina, the deck of the middle section
2. Alabama, the deck of the middle section
3. Iowa, the midship plating
4. Missouri, the midship plating
5. Montana, the midship plating
6. Admiral Hipper, the small strip of armor at the bow
7. Prinz Eugen, the small strip of armor at the bow
8. Roon, the small strip of armor at the bow
9. Hindenburg, the small strip of armor at the bow

That's it. Now is this worth the loss of 3% fire chance and four captain points? I say no.

  • Cool 4

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27 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Almost at the Moskva myself, and I've already made up my mind about going CE first.  The guns are already good enough as they are.  IFHE can wait.

The question isn't when to get IFHE, it is that IFHE is never worth it in 200+ mm armed cruiser (maybe Henri exception). You can already pen BB bows with your HE, and adding IFHE doesn't change that, and with IFHE, you still don't cross into the next armor threshold, which is 50 mm casemate and deck armor on GK and Yamato. IFHE is simplify a waste of 4 points that you can use elsewhere. Also, IFHE is actually going to lower your damage by decreasing your fire chance.

So no, never get IFHE on Moskva

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I tend to favor concealment in a lot of circumstances. With where I am as a player, I think I'm better off having more say in when an engagement will happen.

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1 hour ago, SireneRacker said:

While you know the answer regarding IFHE already, I'll just fuel you with the reasoning for why this is the case, so that you can understand why IFHE has less uses, and that you can make this judgement for any other ship in the game as well.

Your penetration with HE shells is in case of the Moskva calibre/4, then this value gets rounded to the next closest full value and then you take away 1mm, this is the maximum thickness you will penetrate with HE. The exceptions are those ships which penetrate 1/4 of the caliber, which are all German guns of 128mm and above, excluding Destroyers and the Hermelin, and all the Britis Tech Tree Battleships.

So for Moskva now it's:
220mm / 6 = 36.666mm , rounded to 37mm. So your HE shells will penetrate any armor plate that is 36mm or less.

IFHE will multiply the 36.666mm with x1.3, so 36.666mm x 1.3 = 47.666, rounded to 48mm. Now your HE shells penetrate 47mm or less.

 

Now we get to the part where it gets time-consuming, you look at the ships you are likely to face and check the armor profiles, listing where we would gain an advantage. I made this list in that case, so enjoy~

1. North Carolina, the deck of the middle section
2. Alabama, the deck of the middle section
3. Iowa, the midship plating
4. Missouri, the midship plating
5. Montana, the midship plating
6. Admiral Hipper, the small strip of armor at the bow
7. Prinz Eugen, the small strip of armor at the bow
8. Roon, the small strip of armor at the bow
9. Hindenburg, the small strip of armor at the bow

That's it. Now is this worth the loss of 3% fire chance and four captain points? I say no.

thanks for the list

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Supertester
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IFHE on Moskva is a waste of 4 points. I ran it for a long time only because I needed to use the captain on my Kutuzov in SL. 

You're much better served taking CE, and then following up with RPF, or AFT, or FP. 

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Almost always concealment for just about any ship/class; IFHE is primarily to allow 152mm/6" cruisers to penetrate BB bow and aft plating with HE so you don't have to rely on stacking fire to deal damage. 

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