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IJN 8-10 BUFF cruisers

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Alpha Tester
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so would it be nice to give Japanese cruisers like 8-10 ability to shoot 20 km torps again? recent changes being done on shima would it be time to look at adding the mightly senjo cruiser back to the game to?

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There is absolutely zero need for 20 km torpedoes on those cruisers.

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The cruisers are fine

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:

There is absolutely zero need for 20 km torpedoes on those cruisers.

QFT

The 8-10 IJN cruisers are in need of no buffs, the Zoa is still one of the best cruisers in the game. If you need 20km torps on a cruiser you are doing something seriously wrong.

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There is zero need for 20km torps on ANYTHING, and knowing the average cruiser player would probably hit more friendly ships than enemies using those weapons. 

 

The Mogami and Zao are fine - the Ibuki might need a little help, but it is not THAT bad. The Mogami just has a niche as a chip-damage + Flamethrower machine, while the Zao hits like a ton of bricks and has armor which ricochets 16 inch shells. 

 

The Ibuki is a Myoko with the two extra modules and a heal. Not impressive, but I think it is serviceable. 

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If you're in a spot where you're regularly using the torps on those cruisers then something went seriously wrong with your game plan 

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Megatron, we all know your love of the Kitakami but the answer is NO!

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Here's how I would actually adjust T8-T10 IJN Cruisers:

Mogami:

change upper belt and midship deck armor to 27 mm 

Ibuki:

change upper belt and midship deck armor to 30 mm, bow /stern armor to 27 mm

change reload to 13 s

Zao:

No change

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Rather than 20km torps, I would love better torp angles.   

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Long range torpedoes remove active participation from the game. Pretty sure the one reason why 20km torps are so poop right now is WG wants IJN DDs to actively partake in combat rather than sit 20km from the battle line pressing mouse buttons and getting rewarded for what is as likely to be as skill as blind luck.

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NO!!!!!  But being WG is in the Nerfing Mood Becareful might get the HE Fire Change Nerfed...

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Stop creating stupid topics.

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33 minutes ago, temp1ar said:

Rather than 20km torps, I would love better torp angles.   

This makes more sense to me than giving them long range torps; just make the existing ones more useful and less dangerous to use.

23 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Long range torpedoes remove active participation from the game. Pretty sure the one reason why 20km torps are so poop right now is WG wants IJN DDs to actively partake in combat rather than sit 20km from the battle line pressing mouse buttons and getting rewarded for what is as likely to be as skill as blind luck.

Then please explain Normandie and Kongo to me, because I fail to see the difference between being killed by a ship 20 K away with guns and being killed by a ship 20 K away with torps. Your prejuidice is showing.

1 hour ago, Lert said:

There is absolutely zero need for 20 km torpedoes on those cruisers.

Probably true, but there is also absolutely no need for torps on a BB, and we certainly have that. (Along with Radar and all other manner of things which do not belong on BBs)

This may be a stereotype, but it seems to me that if you ever wanted to start a furball on the Forum, all you need to do is ask to have the torps on ANYTHING get buffed; the BB mafia will respond like BaBBies who were threatened with not getting Easter candy.

(EXACTLY like BaBBies threatened with not getting their Easter candy!)

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

There is absolutely zero need for 20 km torpedoes on those cruisers.

What he said. Torps at 20km even further encourage a camping style. Torps are very much a minor consideration mostly good for ambush or trying to hold back a push. Also, for IJN, it requires a lot of broadside. Your quality guns are important; your torps are not.

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

This makes more sense to me than giving them long range torps; just make the existing ones more useful and less dangerous to use.

Then please explain Normandie and Kongo to me, because I fail to see the difference between being killed by a ship 20 K away with guns and being killed by a ship 20 K away with torps. Your prejuidice is showing.

Probably true, but there is also absolutely no need for torps on a BB, and we certainly have that. (Along with Radar and all other manner of things which do not belong on BBs)

This may be a stereotype, but it seems to me that if you ever wanted to start a furball on the Forum, all you need to do is ask to have the torps on ANYTHING get buffed; the BB mafia will respond like BaBBies who were threatened with not getting Easter candy.

(EXACTLY like BaBBies threatened with not getting their Easter candy!)

 

The difference lies in the involvement of the two. The battleship, 20km away, needs confirmation of line of sight to target, else he is blind firing at a small patch of water. He also reveals himself for 20 seconds, and alerts the ship he is firing at that he is doing so through visible rounds. These rounds are targeted at a specific area about 300m x 300m, where, if there is nothing there, he gets no damage.

OTOH, the cruiser does not provide any semblance of this. The torpedoes are fired, possibly at no target. They create an active denial area approximately 5km x 20km towards the end of their path, have no discernible source, and provide virtually no counter play, similar to how carriers have no counter play.

 

Stand off weapons are notoriously boring to play against because even if you spot the attack you cannot stop the attacker because they can be anywhere, and can continue to maintain stand off range by continually firing.

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

There is absolutely zero need for 20 km torpedoes on those cruisers.

IMHO, there's zero need for 20km torps on anything.

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2 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

The difference lies in the involvement of the two. The battleship, 20km away, needs confirmation of line of sight to target, else he is blind firing at a small patch of water. He also reveals himself for 20 seconds, and alerts the ship he is firing at that he is doing so through visible rounds.

Unless he is using a spotter aircraft, and firing from behind an island. And you can see torps coming also.

3 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

OTOH, the cruiser does not provide any semblance of this. The torpedoes are fired, possibly at no target. They create an active denial area approximately 5km x 20km towards the end of their path, have no discernible source, and provide virtually no counter play, similar to how carriers have no counter play.

Torps are rarely fired at "no target" when it takes over a minute for a reload, and possibly as long as 150 seconds (2.5 minutes). Players know where the torps are coming from by simply back tracking their course. WASD and speed changes are an incredibly effective counter against long range torps. And unlike CVs,cruisers cannot "drop" torps 0.3 K away from your ship, which does leave no room for a counter.

9 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

Stand off weapons are notoriously boring to play against because even if you spot the attack you cannot stop the attacker because they can be anywhere, and can continue to maintain stand off range by continually firing.

This is the argument other players use when they rant, rail, and rave against BBs, that their stand off weapons leave no room for an effective response.

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Alpha Tester
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Well with everything said, still thing be great to have 20km torp put back on them. Still dont understand why shima is only ship with 20km torps? At least give cruiser like 15km torps instead of being 10kms like every cruiser haves. 

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On 4/2/2018 at 1:57 PM, 5D_Kitakami_Megatron said:

so would it be nice to give Japanese cruisers like 8-10 ability to shoot 20 km torps again? recent changes being done on shima would it be time to look at adding the mightly senjo cruiser back to the game to?

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20km torps would be rather pointless and unfun for both sides.  I could get behind 12km torps, which would give IJN CAs a unique niche of being able to stealthtorp BBs reliably if forgoe their gun damage for a while.

But honestly I don’t think any need buffs except maybe Ibuki.  Giving her Zao guns with her current 15 sec reload would be a reasonable way to prop up her damage.

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Id say instead of 20km range give it better concealment.. Its IJN ships we are talking about

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Yeeeahhh no... Do you know how slow a torpedo has to go to even reach the 20km range. I'm sure most players would prefer the faster, shorter ranged ones when firing around islands.

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As a person who plays IJN DDs and CAs all the time, and is a very strong proponent of regularly using the torpedoes on IJN CAs, let me echo other sentiments:

NO 20KM TORPEDOES ON ANYTHING.

 

They just are bad for the game. Not to mention you can't hit anything with other than dumb luck. And I'm not in the mood to promote "dumb luck" as a viable tactic.

The Zao needs it's 8km torps enhanced to 10km, but that's the ONLY change IJN CAs need. Nothing else. Not a detection buff, not a reload buff, no launch angle change, nothing else.  They work just fine as it is now.

And yes, my torpedo hit rate is higher in my IJN CAs than it is in my IJN DDs.

Edited by EAnybody

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