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TL_Warlord_Roff

Shimi changes in coming

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So we've gotten the word that Shimi is going to get a fairly heavy drop in it's surface detect range (down to 5.4-- ?) which is yes a good change but I'm not sure it's the change that's needed.    Maybe it's just the teams I tend to get shoved into in tier X play but I honestly don't feel that reducing the ship surface detection is going to help it due to many many factors of the human kind.  (yes this is a slight change from my own previous opinions but when I voiced those opinions it was theory because I didn't own a shimmy yet.. I do now).. The factors?  BB's that play way to shy and don't get up into good position EARLY  where they have good shot lanes and sight lines.. you know where they can actually give yer fragile DD some real support.. same same the cruisers.

Mention was I think made of some change to specifically IJN torpedo spotting, but no actual confirmation yet.  Perhaps they're still diddling with it.  I've been hearing mention of some sort of changes coming in for the torp spotting mechanics for all lines but again rumors, or maybe just wishful thinking.   

I all ways take dev blog,/facebook/reddit posts with a grain of salt as testing changes don't always make it to live intact or at all.     

 

The thing with reducing the Shimmi's surface detect to a lower value is it will  encourage  players to get even deeper into a trouble then they all ready get.     yes it may be only 200 meters of scale distance in game but 200 meters is sufficient to suck up an additional salvo of fire from most all opposing DD's and Cruisers if you try to run.   (I  don't run when that happens any more, allmost useless to try.. Shimi's guns very punchy..Killed a Khab I surprised the other day with em.  He almost got me, but he went down first and from my shimi's guns only.. no one else was shooting at em even though 2 BB's and a cruiser had sight lines on em.    They were all shooting at a nose  on Yamato behind a distant island.. gotta wonder what some of these guys use for brains!  BB masked at 19 Km, v DD in the open at 11 Km  yep, they shoot the BB.

Any who how.  That's my thoughts.  I'd have much rather have seen a reduction of .1 or .2 of the spotting range on my torps.  I'm good with torps but I'm  still only managing a 4% hit rate with them compared to a 40% hit rate with guns.  (I like the shimi's guns, they're... punchy!)

 

 

 

 

 

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The proposal (as mentioned in the General Discussions forum) is a 400m drop in detection, which would be best-in-class at Tier 10 and comparable to Yugumo, and out-spotted only by Kagero.   This will make the Shima play a lot more like its lower tier cousins, and will make Shima feel like a superior ship to Yugumo - 3 launchers AND smoke.  It would make the Shima a better capping DD, and give a greater chance to fight low-health DDs.  I enjoy taking my Kagero into high-tier play because of its detection advantage.  I hope the change goes through and it returns some joy to the Shima.  

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After, what, 11 consecutive nerfs... I don't believe it until it happens. Also, Inb4 the drop on detection is accompanied by another nerf.

Edited by AdmiralOthuyeg

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Seems like a large buff to me. Shima's biggest weakness was feeling like it has to fire torp walls from a long way off. Being able to get closer undetected should make it a much stronger ship.

Question, with this change would it have the lowest detection of any ship it would face? Because if it did then it should be able to see anything before it sees Shima, right? Barring planes, radar, etc of course. 

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The biggest threat to the shima as far as detection by another DD goes has usually been the Gearing, which is at the same detection as the shima. The problem is, if you spot a Gearing 5,9km away and you will be spotted at 5,6km (what I heard) the difference is still unlikely to be a deciding factor in whether you get away from it or not. The shima is not an agile ship. It is faster than the Gearing, but not by much. In order to disengage, it needs to pull a big miracle. And then get radared and die.

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I hope the change the torp detection some too. Yes, we have to see this.

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Yea, I do think we'll see it until space battles is done even though there's no Shimmy clone in play.   So much radar in play now though I'm not sure a reduction in spotting range is going to be an improvement at this point or a curse in disguise.     Useful if your dealing with a isolated opposing DD's, but counting on it being other then a single case buff is kinda asking to end up in a nasty spot.  Remember that few players ever let folks know that radar has been used by an enemy ship.   And then lets not forget the Hydro. I want a spotting distance buff on the torps more then I want one on the ship. 

 

Though once this happens I expect to see some hunter killer builds on a max stealth Shimi, with the short range torps and the torpedo speed and reload boost.   A "Dodge THIS!" build.  Maybe RPF into the mix on top of the obvious.  Workable.  I'm pretty sure they are going to do this but at the least I'm thinking 3 weeks off.

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5.6km concealment is perfect for Shima.  Its where I have been saying she should be balanced at for quite sometime. 

Regarding the reduced concealment getting a Shima only in more trouble, thats only if its played poorly.  You need to learn to position yourself correctly to take advantage of any spotting advantage you have over enemy DDs.  Being able to use that window of concealment, along with your speed advantage over most of the other gun boats is going to be amazing.  This is all that I need to really punish enemy DDs on another level.  I have seen and slayed every gun boat in the game far far more times than they have gotten me.  I am licking my lips, I am about to do some evil crap.

 

 

 

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The lower concealment will help those shimakaze who enjoy using the F3, other wise as kuroshio said  it'll further give advantage to those who know how to get into position

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We've gotten a little more detailed information in the few days since I originally posted and gotten some info on the american cruiser line.   

 

I'm starting to think of ways to take advantage of the improved base concealment.  Other Destroyers are not the only issue the Shimi has to deal with when contesting a cap.  There's also radar cruisers and the coming changes in the US line split could prove nasty what with cruisers who's surface detect range is shorter than their radar range.  Not that this isn't an issue now!   So how do I deal with sneaky radar cruisers who I don't spot until I am inside they radar range?  Oh and likely as not most time I will heading toward them not away from them...because that is the way it tends to come down.    I need to see those cruiser first and I need to not have to depend on my teammates to see them for me.  (which by the current play meta is never going to happen unless a BB comes up and waves the "shoot me" flag, which they should be doing.. yea not going to happen often nuff to count on)

The one solution I can think of is to pack a target acquisition module in place of the concealment module (perhaps one of the more under utilized modules in the game by DD drivers)  Now I'm going to lose a touch of concealment but post buff this will simply put me in a shima where I am now which I'm used to.  The benefits though.  I will still out spot opposing DD's.   I see target further away, and I see torps sooner  (maybe even 'nuff sooner to stop getting plugged by torps I didn't see while sailing along all fat dumb happy and broadside on my way elsewhere)  And it does affect absolute spotting range so seeing what's hiding in smoke.. well not up to hydro standards, but it not on a clock.  It'll also allow me to target ships with main gun lock so as to direct fire on them that much sooner.

So that my thought on the matter.  Shima's  a good ship, but  she's got much much more to deal with then 2 years ago when the game launched.  I'm pretty sure I can make this work, and I might even be able to make it work now.

With DD's it's always the whole package of modules and skills.  Focus to much on any single aspect of a ship and you leave yourself weak and with a unrealized  vulnerability that can be exploited by the sharp or just lucky opponent.  

The numbers look....interesting, but the proof is in the pudding as they say.. I may have to give this a go.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Edited by TL_Warlord_Roff

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1 hour ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

We've gotten a little more detailed information in the few days since I originally posted and gotten some info on the american cruiser line.   

 

I'm starting to think of ways to take advantage of the improved base concealment.  Other Destroyers are not the only issue the Shimi has to deal with when contesting a cap.  There's also radar cruisers and the coming changes in the US line split could prove nasty what with cruisers who's surface detect range is shorter than their radar range.  Not that this isn't an issue now!   So how do I deal with sneaky radar cruisers who I don't spot until I am inside they radar range?  Oh and likely as not most time I will heading toward them not away from them...because that is the way it tends to come down.    I need to see those cruiser first and I need to not have to depend on my teammates to see them for me.  (which by the current play meta is never going to happen unless a BB comes up and waves the "shoot me" flag, which they should be doing.. yea not going to happen often nuff to count on)

The one solution I can think of is to pack a target acquisition module in place of the concealment module (perhaps one of the more under utilized modules in the game by DD drivers)  Now I'm going to lose a touch of concealment but post buff this will simply put me in a shima where I am now which I'm used to.  The benefits though.  I will still out spot opposing DD's.   I see target further away, and I see torps sooner  (maybe even 'nuff sooner to stop getting plugged by torps I didn't see while sailing along all fat dumb happy and broadside on my way elsewhere)  And it does affect absolute spotting range so seeing what's hiding in smoke.. well not up to hydro standards, but it not on a clock.  It'll also allow me to target ships with main gun lock so as to direct fire on them that much sooner.

So that my thought on the matter.  Shima's  a good ship, but  she's got much much more to deal with then 2 years ago when the game launched.  I'm pretty sure I can make this work, and I might even be able to make it work now.

With DD's it's always the whole package of modules and skills.  Focus to much on any single aspect of a ship and you leave yourself weak and with a unrealized  vulnerability that can be exploited by the sharp or just lucky opponent.  

The numbers look....interesting, but the proof is in the pudding as they say.. I may have to give this a go.

 

Your thoughts?

 

We already have a few CAs and CLs that can radar from stealth or very close it it.  Understand that most radar, esp in randoms is triggered by an event.  You move into a cap that an enemy radar CA can see covers the cap, or you detect a very stealthy radar ship.  From the outset of the match you should be thinking about how to escape and evade radar.  You can do this using cover, or baiting and evading damage at range.  If the US CL shell speed is anything like Cleveland its only really going to be a threat if you are caught headed into him, or very close ranges.  So plan accordingly.  Shima is pretty fast, esp when it comes to changing speed.  She might be the narrowest of the T10 DDs making he a hard target when angled.

Running TA is a really bad idea.  The additional spotting range does nothing to help you torp effectively.  You are not a knife fighting DD, so closing to proxy ranges is questionable at best.  If you are eating torps regularly you need to work on your positioning.  Positioning more than anything will keep you torp safe.  In exchange you are giving up a major advantage.  It doesnt sound like much, but reversing across a cap ready to bail if you get radared or surface spotted keeps you pretty safe from damage (barring the usual BB AP [edited]) but doing this enables you to zone out any other DD with higher concealment levels if they do not have cover to hide behind.  All you need is one team mate willing to snipe at that DD for support.  It should be noted that not running the Concealment System you will be shot at slightly more accurately as well esp with BBs.

Shima was good pre buff.  You just had to play to her strengths.  Post buff they added more strengths to that list.

 

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Yes tempting RNG to bite me running TAS.  No one said the job would be easy.   

Of course the real problem is the torps.. run the 20Km's with speed mod drops the range to 16Km, harder to dodge but still surface spotted at 2.5 Km (or more with TAM, vigilance, hydro, or combo there of!) .   The 12Km, base 1.7Km detect w/boost drops the range below 10 which is usable IF you can get the shot, and will be a copper plated you know what to dodge.    The 8k torps?  You have bigger ones then I sir!   Though with being stealthier, hummm?  I am a good shot with my guns.. and at those ranges I will be using them.  Then it becomes all about first strike.  Are you skilled 'nuff to shoot a cruiser to Davy Jones after torpedoing  him in the face and live through the experience?  Of course he's unlikely to be alone.  There will be a change in torpedo spotting mechanics involving aircraft, but we don't run into carrier air that often, and surprisingly few cruiser/battleship players use their float planes as often as they could or should.

IJN torps for all their big warhead just don't do as well as they need to be doing.  There are days where I swear if it wasn't for smooth moves on the part of the opposition I would get no damage or kills done because It's near always difficult getting positioned with a good torp lane.    And as a DD player I have to do more then that.   BB players complain about their rate of fire?  It's better then half mine with torps!  

The thing is, is the real mission of DD on a winning team is all ways going to be part of getting there the firstest with the mostest.   Being able to out spot from a little unexpectedly further out might just be worth the risks involved, and I'm all ready dealing with being out spotted, out shot, and out torpedoed *sigh!*.    Players have also gotten smarter with the use of their radar and hydro, and in comp play it's even worse than what you see in random battles.   

on a side note.. things a tier X Aki should have besides the 6th module slot.  Same torp selection as the Shimi.  A slight reduction (50 meters?) turn radius and rudder shift and give it 2 knots of speed and call it good.  

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Lowering shima spotting range by .5 does nothing. As a previous poster mentioned, by the time you spot another DD it will usually be on a situation where he is coming to you and you to it..and the shima's turn rate is not good enough to turn to avoid.. you will be spotted which kills off any hope of your torps hitting if you had fired them and if you haven't well you're SOL as torps don't do much vs a DD barreling towards you (when was the last time you saw a 1 torp kill on a dd?).

shima needs to have its torp detect lowered from 2.5km to 1.3km... reduce its torp speed to 50kn and damage to 12k per torp to compensate.

 

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No.  the extra 300m of range is perfect.  The only time it isn't enough time is if two DDs are running headlong into each other at full speed or one is trying to go slow and cause trouble.  Since pretty sure after all buffs and etc is is dropping from 5.9->5.6

 

It's pretty rare to run facefirst into enemy DDs now for me even without RPF it's just how you approach the cap circle and figuring out how the enemy dd is going to approach the cap circle and adjust your course accordingly if you can get an enemy DD to burn smoke first then they've used one of their possible lifesaving measures which Doesn't require a radar cruiser to reveal them later.  Basically it's all destroyer mindgames like it always has been. since as a destroyer being revealed when you aren't in a good/ideal position to shoot at things and then everyone else looks at you because delicious tasty destroyer HP gives wonderful XP to anyone that partakes of a good sized bite usually makes you skedattle in a hurry if you aren't supported by enough ships.

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2 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Lowering shima spotting range by .5 does nothing. As a previous poster mentioned, by the time you spot another DD it will usually be on a situation where he is coming to you and you to it..and the shima's turn rate is not good enough to turn to avoid.. you will be spotted which kills off any hope of your torps hitting if you had fired them and if you haven't well you're SOL as torps don't do much vs a DD barreling towards you (when was the last time you saw a 1 torp kill on a dd?).

shima needs to have its torp detect lowered from 2.5km to 1.3km... reduce its torp speed to 50kn and damage to 12k per torp to compensate.

 

I and a lot of other DD players disagree.  Your instance of closing bow on to another DD is a perfect example of you not knowing how to play DDs with a spotting advantage.  You wouldnt drive a nail with a butter knife.

They really should just buff Shima by removing that fools option of 20km torps.  It's beyond stupid. 

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50 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I and a lot of other DD players disagree.  Your instance of closing bow on to another DD is a perfect example of you not knowing how to play DDs with a spotting advantage.  You wouldnt drive a nail with a butter knife.

They really should just buff Shima by removing that fools option of 20km torps.  It's beyond stupid. 

whether you're flanking wide or running in to cap the fact remains the shima commonly gets spotted by a DD that is coming his direction and shima is heading in his direction. Reading comprehension is important. If you spot another DD while it doesn't spot you it means you're not bow on to it and that's when you DO have a chance to turn hull and stay out of detect range.

Foolish is to have the DD with the lowest HP and useless guns in a close range fight be forced into close range while dds like gearing get to keep their MUCH better guns, better torpedoes and better smoke/AA . That is moronic game design.

 

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2 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

whether you're flanking wide or running in to cap the fact remains the shima commonly gets spotted by a DD that is coming his direction and shima is heading in his direction. Reading comprehension is important. If you spot another DD while it doesn't spot you it means you're not bow on to it and that's when you DO have a chance to turn hull and stay out of detect range.

Foolish is to have the DD with the lowest HP and useless guns in a close range fight be forced into close range while dds like gearing get to keep their MUCH better guns, better torpedoes and better smoke/AA . That is moronic game design.

 

I comprehended it.  I guess you dont understand how you need to play to mitigate that.  For me its a minimal issue because I approach at angles I can kite away quickly and when I cant I'll reverse into the area to scout first.

The guns are far from useless.  I understand why you would feel they are if you are trying to knife fight DDs.  Thats not an IJN DDs cup of tea.    Outside of 7km you fight DDs on more even terms.

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11 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I comprehended it.  I guess you dont understand how you need to play to mitigate that.  For me its a minimal issue because I approach at angles I can kite away quickly and when I cant I'll reverse into the area to scout first.

The guns are far from useless.  I understand why you would feel they are if you are trying to knife fight DDs.  Thats not an IJN DDs cup of tea.    Outside of 7km you fight DDs on more even terms.

No you don't get it. 'Mitigating' a design change to a ship whose nation specialty IS torpedoes AND stealth by forcing it into the environment (close range) where both specialties are nullified by the design changes (torp visibility, useless guns) is not what you do. What you do is stop using a borked ship and use the ship that is actually functional and better at it. Gearing torp spec'd has a significantly higher hit ratio, same stealth, more HP and significantly better guns and smoke. Playing to 'mitigate' idiotic design changes is the equivalent of bending over and taking it. The more you bend over the less chance there is of these devs won't fix it. 

The guns are useless on a knife fight which is when a torp-specialist DD would be using them..when its detected. This nonsense of 'long range fire' vs another DD is absurd given the other ship's nearly double the ROF with the same damage output your guns PLUS it having higher HP pool PLUS it being able to dodge WHILE firing (which shima cannot thanks to the idiotic turret rotation rate). You will never win a 1-1 gun fight with another full health DD at any range unless that other DD is absolutely incompetent. 

 

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1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

No you don't get it. 'Mitigating' a design change to a ship whose nation specialty IS torpedoes AND stealth by forcing it into the environment (close range) where both specialties are nullified by the design changes (torp visibility, useless guns) is not what you do. What you do is stop using a borked ship and use the ship that is actually functional and better at it. Gearing torp spec'd has a significantly higher hit ratio, same stealth, more HP and significantly better guns and smoke. Playing to 'mitigate' idiotic design changes is the equivalent of bending over and taking it. The more you bend over the less chance there is of these devs won't fix it. 

The guns are useless on a knife fight which is when a torp-specialist DD would be using them..when its detected. This nonsense of 'long range fire' vs another DD is absurd given the other ship's nearly double the ROF with the same damage output your guns PLUS it having higher HP pool PLUS it being able to dodge WHILE firing (which shima cannot thanks to the idiotic turret rotation rate). You will never win a 1-1 gun fight with another full health DD at any range unless that other DD is absolutely incompetent. 

 

 

I dont get it?  Bend over?  I dont struggle with the boat at all.  You must have missed the numerous replays I have posted for almost two years showing me doing exactly what I am saying.  Gearing and Yue Yang ROF is worth much less outside of 7km due to shell travel time and you having the initiative to dodge at will.  

Putting this into perspective I have every T10 DD with a 19 point captain.  I could run anything.  My team listened to why I wanted to run Shima, they agreed to test it, and we have had a lot of success with it, and no I am not farming BBs and CAs either.  Much of my real fighting is dealing with the enemy DDs in my way.  If Shima was truly broken there is no way our team could run it and be consistently in the top 5 in CB this season.  While 1v1 DD fights never happen, I pretty consistently out damage Gearings, and Yue Yangs.  My spotting advantage mostly deals with Z-52s, which when you think about the buff will give me the ability to use that against the other gunboats too.

While Shima might have the least amount of HP, look at it in detail in relation to other DDs of her tier.  She is by far the narrowest, and is covered with little AA mounts on her stern and mid section.  What this means is supporting fire from enemy CAs and BBs will have a harder time hitting you due to your speed esp when you take advantage of how quick she accelerates and decelerates, along with you narrow profile.  What does hit, if you are playing correctly will saturate your stern, and once you hit the sweet spot start hitting your deck where you have the aforementioned AA, turrets, torp tubes etc to minimize the damage received.  Paper stats do not really decide fights between good players.

Feel free to watch any streams our guys have up of our CB to see it in near real time.

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While I would like to see some change regarding IJN torps, I think buffing Shima concealment to 5.4-5.5 km is really good. I'm slowly making my way to Shima and after playing Kagerou and especially Yuugumo, I don't find any reason to buy Shima because she will be outspot by some scary DD like Benson / Kid, she will be spotted by Akizuki and Gearing ... 

Sure 7 more torps and 39kts speed is cool but her CD on torps is massive and having the same concealment as a Gearing isn't really fair .

 

I wish WG could remove those stupid 20km torps on Shima at the same time they will buff her. I don't want to be forced to struggle even more than I am already

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5.5km concealment is really strong for Shima

should get 5.6km to leave Yugumo and Kagero some breathing room.

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21 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

 

I dont get it?  Bend over?  I dont struggle with the boat at all.  You must have missed the numerous replays I have posted for almost two years showing me doing exactly what I am saying.  Gearing and Yue Yang ROF is worth much less outside of 7km due to shell travel time and you having the initiative to dodge at will.  

Putting this into perspective I have every T10 DD with a 19 point captain.  I could run anything.  My team listened to why I wanted to run Shima, they agreed to test it, and we have had a lot of success with it, and no I am not farming BBs and CAs either.  Much of my real fighting is dealing with the enemy DDs in my way.  If Shima was truly broken there is no way our team could run it and be consistently in the top 5 in CB this season.  While 1v1 DD fights never happen, I pretty consistently out damage Gearings, and Yue Yangs.  My spotting advantage mostly deals with Z-52s, which when you think about the buff will give me the ability to use that against the other gunboats too.

While Shima might have the least amount of HP, look at it in detail in relation to other DDs of her tier.  She is by far the narrowest, and is covered with little AA mounts on her stern and mid section.  What this means is supporting fire from enemy CAs and BBs will have a harder time hitting you due to your speed esp when you take advantage of how quick she accelerates and decelerates, along with you narrow profile.  What does hit, if you are playing correctly will saturate your stern, and once you hit the sweet spot start hitting your deck where you have the aforementioned AA, turrets, torp tubes etc to minimize the damage received.  Paper stats do not really decide fights between good players.

Feel free to watch any streams our guys have up of our CB to see it in near real time.

I too run Shima for this CB season and fortunate enough my clan reaches Typhoon despite our timezone being off to NA by 12 hours (we only have 1 session/week of CB on Sunday morning-US Saturday night) My random Shima stats is 58% WR (was close to 61% before a YUGE losing streak strike in) and similar avg damage to you 61-62k and about 700 battles in random. I'd say any buff to shima is welcomed not because it's a good ship but because I have been so accustomed to the bad shima that any buff if at all will mean huge buff. I believe it's true for many good Shimakaze mains out there. If you can live with 5.9km detection, 5.6km detection is a quality of life level of change. Though the argument is flawed because you never look at the ship OBJECTIVELY, i.e. ignoring the players, just focus on comparison between ships and ships. To balance ship to ship, you have to look at what the ship gives up to get what. In that POV, Shimakaze is seriously lacking behind other ships. Why you might ask?

1. Shimakaze gives up rate of fire (about 40% slower) to get 3 sets of 5 torpedoes, which is then being negated by 30-40sec slower reload time. So this is just a net loss in disguise, Shimakaze JUST gives up rate of fire for nothing.

2. Shimakaze gives up alpha gun damage to get the best shell velocity in Tier 10 DD but then this is again negated by sluggish rudder response and super long and big ship above waterline, which deletes any hope to use Shimakaze guns like those of Khabarovsk. So then this again is a net loss in disguise, Shimakaze JUST gives up alpha gun damage for something that it will never use.

3. Shimakaze gives up torpedo stealthiness for the highest torpedo alpha damage but then this is negated by the fact that other Tier 10 DDs HP pool (With SE) are so that they can't be 1-shotted by Shimakaze torpedoes (While Shimakaze  with SE can be 1-shotted by its own torpedoes and Yugumo's). In game play POV, the only time where torpedo alpha damage is significant is against other DDs, against BBs, the Torpedo protection belt easily reduces the damage difference between Shimakaze torpedoes to other torpedoes from 5k down to about 1k/torpedo, which is not enough to justify the lower number of torpedo hits. Against CAs, we generally don't hope to hit them with torps, except for YY so that doesn't count at all. So again, this is a net loss in disguise, Shimakaze JUST gives up torpedo stealthiness to kill ... itself while having no significant advantage over other ships.

4. Shimakaze gives up its stealth for the higher HP pool than its lower tier IJN DDs, but then this is negated by the fact that its HP pool is lowest among Tier 10 DDs.

In short, Shimakaze is a ship of mismatches. Nothing that's equipped in it is meant to be working together. You have good shell velocity but bad rudder control. You have long range torpedoes but it's spotted from afar. You have more torpedoes but torpedo reload is equally slower. You have good torpedoes at close range but bad stealth and bad guns to protect yourself at close range. You have good torpedo alpha damage but good luck having hits with them. Hope you can see, no 2 good things in shimakaze work in-sync to leverage the other. You ended up with a beautiful girl with small boobs, a charming guy with small [edited], a buffy bodybuilder with ED. Yes everyone who never plays the ship can say it's beautiful, it's charming, it's sporty, it's fine for what it is and never notice the small details that just make the ship self-destructing to play. 

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With the abundance of radar (and hydro on Z-52s) I'm not sure the detection boost will help that much.  It certainly won't hurt, but I wouldn't count on it to change how you play the Shima all that much.  I'm still grinding through Yugumo, so I'll have to wait and see.  But Yugumo has a hard enough time with radar and hydro.

Now I do recall reading somewhere (developers' blogs maybe?) that they were looking at reducing the ability of aircraft to spot torpedoes.  That might help Shima (and every other DD) more.

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6 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

5.5km concealment is really strong for Shima

should get 5.6km to leave Yugumo and Kagero some breathing room.

It's down from 5.94 to 5.59 vs Yugumo's 5.52. So it is basically 5.6.

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