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Twenty8kills_NA

USN vs IJN Carriers (after changes)

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So basically, heard that the USN line got a few "Buffs" where the crap loadouts were removed and a more generic loadout was introduced. Is the USN line worth to spend some time into it? Or is it still not good

 

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nice question, I think the ones that can answer best this question is Ichase, or Femennenly. Check out her live stream on twitch and post the answer for us... She is practically sky cancer level, more then qualified to answer your concern.Cheers !

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I'd avoid them.  If you /have/ to play CVs, play IJN.

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55 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I'd avoid them.  If you /have/ to play CVs, play IJN.

Or just don’t play CVs past tier 6...

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the problem is after tier 6 IJN CV have the upperhand and with the nerfs to midway and now the plan to nerf its hanger size by 40 the midway could turn out crap and not worth the grind to it anymore as that was the one US CV that had the upperhand over IJN CV

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2 hours ago, Twenty8kills_NA said:

So basically, heard that the USN line got a few "Buffs" where the crap loadouts were removed and a more generic loadout was introduced. Is the USN line worth to spend some time into it? Or is it still not good

 

They were not "crap" load-outs.  It was just US strike load outs had no fighters.  And US Air Supremacy load-outs were exactly that- They could rule the skies , and subsequently  perma-spot the other team.  (I.E. An AS Ranger could beat anything , particularly neutralizing Saipans . Which being a premium ship , simply could not be allowed.

Now Of course past Ranger at lexington the us CV line was 'crap" , back then as I understood it   , as you never saw a Lexington doing much no matter its loadout, except losing.

 

Yea, so AS Ranger broke the CV game , and too many people(paying customers) were sick of losing in their Saipan. On the flip side everybody was tired of US strike loadouts (which were a surefire team loss) , except the few US CV strike package drivers who seemed to like farming damage while losing.

 

I quit US CV when they eliminated choice and options in US CV's (XP'ed for Lexington and sold my Ranger). And even now CV play is not what it was. Even  using IJN CV's as the lack of variety in opponents lessens(sp) the fun. 

Now you wont see this in early Teir US CV's as Langley is not ntoiceable different, Bogue is more of a Monster than it was, and Indy with its stock package , is the same as it was , which was the best package to run in them even before the nerf.

Play US Cv to T6 , 4-5 are fun, you'll start to see where it is gonna go at Indy, and don't bother past. unless you whip out a credit card and buy Saipan.

IJN CV's ? You can play all of them , Rhuijo , prolly the funnest I have seen.

My views don't really incliude T9-10 , either side or Kaga or GZ, KAGA looks to be fairly op, the rest? IDK, Have not bought a Shoakaku yet, and only occasionally take out the Hiryu anymore because CV's have lost their variety and much of the pre-game decisions on Loadouts for any side

Edited by Strachwitz666

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15 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Or just don’t play CVs past tier 6...

Yea, basically for US Cv's  IMO, all IJN OK

Edited by Strachwitz666

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After the unnecessary Midway nerf by 40 planes because WG has a divine mandate to sure USN CVs are less than their counterparts. The only US carriers that are worth playing are probably going to be Saipan and Enterprise surprise surprise the premiums. Now don't get me wrong these are both very good ships and and for me they were definitely worth the money but it's just annoying that instead of balancing the other tiers (6-9 in  particular) they do like 2-3 patches of just straight nerfs to the Midway. Why not focus on fixing the horribly balanced lower tiers like either bring the US up to Japan's level or bring Japan down.  

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On 4/2/2018 at 11:53 PM, Strachwitz666 said:

Yea, so AS Ranger broke the CV game , and too many people(paying customers) were sick of losing in their Saipan.

 AS Ranger never broke the CV game, it was the best loadout on Ranger by being the only one that was remotely competitive, but it was still the worst tier 7 carrier by a big margin. The only thing AS Ranger could do to a Saipan was force it to put a little more thought and effort into winning every game, any Saipan captain consistently losing was a terrible player who would never have won regardless.

Saipan broke the CV game, and then Kaga tagged in for a suplex, and now Graf Zeppelin is doing the same thing at tier 8, because Wargaming developers have no idea how to even play carriers, let alone balance them. Go check the feedback, they've got absolutely no idea.

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Saipan caused AS Ranger to be the way to beat Saipan. And also got that whole Sky Cancer bit really going. .My POV  It is more a chicken and egg argument.

 

But you do have a point , and what is really certain is the Saipan by being a premium ship, ensured that the carrier game could never be fixed, 

Then they made it worse by removing all US CV wing options. And then they have cemented the problem even worse by introducing 3 more premium CV.s . 

Can't nerf a premiun  or even change one since "nerfs" are subjective anyway,(which also means they can't strengthen their opponents either because that would weaken the premiums(defacto nerf).   So whatever power premium CV's have , can't be reduced and they got to work around FOUR premiums CV's at various Tiers now.

IMO , CV's are permanently fouled up unless they eat it and conceed they might have to buy a few premium's CV's back  for anyone unhappy with  any future changes to CV's/

Personally I look at it  like , Notice how the CV revamp has not been done yet.  Last year it seemed the consensus was the change would be implemented November at the latest. Has not happened yet, and really has not even been talked about since November came and went.  Doesn't even seem like they are even remotely near a test stage if at all . And personally I thjnk it is because any effect on premium CV's or changes to them would  could cost them real money.  Something about EU fraud laws and the potential that people would have a lesser product than they paid for. The lack  of any action seems to say they are planning the big CV s rebalance/mass-change  shortly after Lucifer buys a snowblower.  

I'll say Saipan made the sky cancer(problem with AS and strike loadouts) malignant  and now there aint a dnag thing they can do. I'll agree they should never have introduced any premium carriers till they had fixed the original US/IJN imbalance in CV's and Cv wings and planes to begin with.

Edited by Strachwitz666

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Go with Japanese CV line. Get to tier 7 and get the 3 fighter squadron (Air Superiority) load-out. You will never have to worry about any US cv ever again... well, except maybe a Saipan. You still get enough bombers to kill off enemy ships to boot.

Clear and dominate the skies first, spot with your fighters after doing so, and make bombing runs against easy targets with the bombers you do have.

US CV's (Ranger specifically) is now a sitting duck when pitted against Siapan and Japanese counterparts until you get to a CV that actually does get 2 fighter squadrons.

 

Either you become a master of strafing with your single fighter squadron, or you lose all your planes before the game reaches half way. Any time you see three fighter squadrons flying around though, you might as well kiss your planes goodbye. You'll run out of ammo before you kill them all... unless the other player is simply that bad or not paying attention. But, as stated before, WG decided that premium CV's should be absolutely unstoppable by the regular (FREE) ships and as such, you'll probably still lose even to a crappy Saipan player.

Edited by Levits

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Recently got out of the Ranger--that ship is bloody awful to play now without the AS loadout. Against another Ranger, you'll make it out okay. Against Saipan and Kaga? Kiss your planes goodbye, and your teammates as well. Against a balanced or fighter Hiryu? Again, kiss your planes goodbye.

The Lexington is not much better--maybe a little better, but not a lot. You'll still get completely wrecked against a fighter Shokaku. (Defensive AA consumable is a godsend against a Shokaku if she's dominating you, though--if she decides to go for a snipe, you'll live even if your planes are long gone.) Subpar MM means you'll often have to contend with T9/T10 AA as well--You'd better be patient in order to land a strike (though it's a good chance to practice spotting). Against the Enterprise, you should be okay if you play well. I really, really, really miss the AS loadout. I'd happily sacrifice some strike power for the ability to actually get my planes to their targets and defend my team.

P.S. Do not attempt to play a stock Lexington without a) Upgrades and b) Best aircraft modules available. You'll get rolled repeatedly unless you're up against another stock Lexy. Also, concealment expert is a must.

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Tier IV Langley is every bit the equal of Hosho.

Tier V Bogue can bully in the air while having respectable attack power.  Zuiho's fighter unit, now without strafe, is at a severe disadvantage in the air-to-air fight against Bogue, but can still have very nasty attack power.  Don't underestimate Cross Drop TB capability, even without manual attacks.  But in general, Bogue is very competitive at the tier.

 

Tier VI Independence has not really changed in performance compared to before.

 

Tier VII-IX is the abysmal black hole.  Ranger, Lexington, Essex.  These CVs sucked before the revamp and after the changes, WG somehow found ways to make them suck even more.  I don't know how you can make bottom feeder ships into worse ships than they were before, but WG found a way.

 

Tier X Midway is very powerful after the Revamp but has been facing nerf after nerf.  My prediction is she'll lose all Tier X plane access soon.  She already has Tier VIII TBs from the Revamp.  Then WG nerfed her fighters to be Tier IX at best.  Then WG is about to nerf her hangar capacity.  After that, I guess the DBs need to be nerfed.

 

Who do I feel sorry for?  After the Revamp and the news that Midway was a force to be reckoned with, after the back-to-back-to-back-to-back mediocre USN CVs in this line, a bunch of guys ground their way to get to the one, good, non-low tier USN CV in the tech tree, only to eat nerf after nerf.

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On 04/04/2018 at 11:44 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Who do I feel sorry for?  After the Revamp and the news that Midway was a force to be reckoned with, after the back-to-back-to-back-to-back mediocre USN CVs in this line, a bunch of guys ground their way to get to the one, good, non-low tier USN CV in the tech tree, only to eat nerf after nerf.

yep ive been working up the line and just about to get essex and was looking forward to the midway and having a CV that was better then the IJN CV at long last just to find out they keep putting more and more nerfs on it, it starts to put you off getting the midway knowing that your going to be in the same spot you were at tier 6 with a tier 10 CV. The more they nerf it the more it looks like its turning into a tier 9 CV

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On 4/2/2018 at 8:47 AM, crzyhawk said:

I'd avoid them.  If you /have/ to play CVs, play IJN.

Midway losing a third of her hanger capacity and still having t8 planes against t10 planes from haks and t10 AA... Don't torture yourself going down the usn line, there is no light at the end of the tunnel except for the oncoming train coming to mow you down.

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19 hours ago, ausanimal said:

yep ive been working up the line and just about to get essex and was looking forward to the midway and having a CV that was better then the IJN CV at long last just to find out they keep putting more and more nerfs on it, it starts to put you off getting the midway knowing that your going to be in the same spot you were at tier 6 with a tier 10 CV. The more they nerf it the more it looks like its turning into a tier 9 CV

Got my Essex three years ago (my first t9)... And I think I've taken her out less than a half dozen times since.

I can't bring myself to sell her, I was so pumped for her back in cbt... But I'm resigned to her never being more than a pretty Port queen cuz wg likes to put on the white wife beater and go to town on her and her sisters every chance they get.

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39 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

Got my Essex three years ago (my first t9)... And I think I've taken her out less than a half dozen times since.

I can't bring myself to sell her, I was so pumped for her back in cbt... But I'm resigned to her never being more than a pretty Port queen cuz wg likes to put on the white wife beater and go to town on her and her sisters every chance they get.

i think ill still get the essex and grind till i get the midway, who knows when the rework is going to happen let alone whats going to happen in it might as well finish the line off off least i have them just in case

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On 4/3/2018 at 8:44 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Who do I feel sorry for?  After the Revamp and the news that Midway was a force to be reckoned with, after the back-to-back-to-back-to-back mediocre USN CVs in this line, a bunch of guys ground their way to get to the one, good, non-low tier USN CV in the tech tree, only to eat nerf after nerf.

 Don't feel sorry for Masochists. Anyone who can suffer through 3 teirs of degradation , only to find out they are further treated like dirt as T10 reward, for their patience and perseverance, must enjoy it. LOL  

Edited by Strachwitz666

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