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crazyferret23777

Question about Yamato AA strength?

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I've heard the Yammy's AA is terrible even if you spec it to the max so I'm using things like MFM3 instead. How should I approach matches with high tier cv's? Division up with a good AA BB like the Iowa maybe?

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Sit in conner and cry.

Jk, get a div with some AA cruiser, you know, have more ships then bbs on this game. Or play with usn bbs.

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Full AA builds on BBs, especially BBs designed for tanking a lot of incoming damage (Yamato is one of them, because even at longer ranges you are making a decent candidate for enemy team focus fire) is not an effective way to invest you captain points.  Yamato's best assets are it's main caliber guns...  Say you build it for AA.  It may be an effective AA when combined with other ships in vicinity but - first of all high tier CVs are rare enough, so you are not guaranteed that your AA points will pay off, and second of all even if you encounter CV it may just be smart enough to know to avoid you until you have been subjected to intensive HE bombardment.  At which point your AA is gone, whether you spec for it or not.  So, AA builds are highly situational, and not worth it, not with the current meta anyhow.

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Tier 10 CVs won't have much issues dealing with an AA spec Yamato, but for Tier 9 and especially tier 8 CVs, Yamato's AA strength is rather potent and costly for those CVs. However most of Yamato's AA strength lies in its mid range AA so it won't really reduce the overall striking power of an air group before it drops its payload.

With that said, sticking near other ships on your team especially ships with reputable AA would significantly help with the defense against aircraft.

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1 hour ago, Ramsalot said:

Full AA builds on BBs, especially BBs designed for tanking a lot of incoming damage (Yamato is one of them, because even at longer ranges you are making a decent candidate for enemy team focus fire) is not an effective way to invest you captain points.  Yamato's best assets are it's main caliber guns...  Say you build it for AA.  It may be an effective AA when combined with other ships in vicinity but - first of all high tier CVs are rare enough, so you are not guaranteed that your AA points will pay off, and second of all even if you encounter CV it may just be smart enough to know to avoid you until you have been subjected to intensive HE bombardment.  At which point your AA is gone, whether you spec for it or not.  So, AA builds are highly situational, and not worth it, not with the current meta anyhow.

 

Given the bulk of the AAA power is in the DP mounts which rarely get destroyed getting HE spammed isn;t going to be that mega problematic.

 

1 hour ago, Vader_Sama said:

Tier 10 CVs won't have much issues dealing with an AA spec Yamato, but for Tier 9 and especially tier 8 CVs, Yamato's AA strength is rather potent and costly for those CVs. However most of Yamato's AA strength lies in its mid range AA so it won't really reduce the overall striking power of an air group before it drops its payload.

With that said, sticking near other ships on your team especially ships with reputable AA would significantly help with the defense against aircraft.

 

Indeed she's actually about on par with NC or Conqueror in full spec, (conqueror advantage isn't that she''s got a potent suite with only a partial spec, her weakness is a full spec benefits her far less than the other,s same for all the T7+ RN BB's except Hood).

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Yamato full AA-spec is actually pretty effective, given it has such a large number of 127mm and 25mm guns.  Not spec'd, it is very bad.

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22 minutes ago, _V12 said:

Yamato full AA-spec is actually pretty effective, given it has such a large number of 127mm and 25mm guns.  Not spec'd, it is very bad.

^^^ 100%.  Back in the day when it was just USN & IJN BBs, Secondary Spec Yamatos were very common, and just the combination of BFT & AFT would let Yamato swat planes from Tier VIII CVs.  I remember playing old Strike Lexington and a Sec.Spec Yamato would cause tremendous bomber losses to me.  But against the faster, tougher bombers of Tier IX-X CVs, that was not the case and they'd come right through as if nothing happened to them.

 

AA Spec Yamato has good AA.  Manual AA trait goes hand in hand with the 24 total 127mm DP guns she has.  Good as Montana?  Don't know but she'll hold her own very well.  Of course, AA Specs are uncommon and an AA Spec Yamato is even rarer.  You'll probably find 100 Stealth / AA / Main Battery Montanas before you find 1 AA Spec Yamato.  You'll find way more Main Battery / Survival Yamatos all over the place today before you find an AA Spec version.

 

If your BB has sh*t AA, the first, most important rule in a CV match is not to sail alone.  A lone BB is very prone to air attacks.  Even a Taiho, Hakuryu, Midway will go after an AA Montana if it's alone.  If you are something like Musashi, Tirpitz with sh*t AA, you just all but guaranteed the next airstrike is coming to you.  Yamato has a bad AA rep and this alone ensures the CV will always be looking for a chance to pick one off.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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5 hours ago, _V12 said:

Yamato full AA-spec is actually pretty effective, given it has such a large number of 127mm and 25mm guns.  Not spec'd, it is very bad.

 

To be fair thats true of every ship in the entire game. No exceptions. The effect of an AAA build is just that great.

 

And from T7 up the AAA scales sharply. Colorado has the 3rd best AAA at T7, it's only very marginally behind ROma/Tirpitz which share near identical effective output and are plum last at T8. Izumo is better than all but NC, Alabama, And Kii despite being the second worst of T9 BB's, (after Musashi). AAA scales that harshly over the last 4 tiers.

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8 hours ago, crazyferret23777 said:

I've heard the Yammy's AA is terrible even if you spec it to the max so I'm using things like MFM3 instead. How should I approach matches with high tier cv's? Division up with a good AA BB like the Iowa maybe?

I went with BFT and AFT Captain skills, Concealment Expert so the planes can’t Spot me from other side of map. And of course I carry a Cat Fighter instead of Spotter plane.

Equipment I have Auxiliary Armaments Mod 1 to help protect my AA and secondary guns from damage. Which I suspect is reason many players have hard time with it’s AA, is from losing too many of the AA guns from enemy shell fire. And main turrets seem armored enough to not need the extra protection for those. Last equipment slot I went with secondary gun reload buff to deter DDs a little more than usual, but the AA reload equipment is also a good choice instead.

 

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All AA guns will simply die from HE spam, so it's not worth investing in AA.

Conqueror can strip off most of Montana's AA in 1 or 2 salvos, so there.

Come to think of it, Conqueror HE can strip off about 80% of Des Moines AA power in one salvo, so that's that.

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An AA spec Yamato does work.....just not very often as CV's are rare. As others have mentioned, light and med AA will easily die from HE spam (while realistic its bad for balance) and the Yamato is an HE magnet.

shot-18.01.22_21.15.20-0765.jpg

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Dramatic R-rated recreation of Yamato's AA Strength

Spoiler

ycJrKaI.gif

 

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I have a Conqueror, Montana, Grober Kurfurst and a Yamato.  I love the Yamato the most, but in all honesty her AA does not match ANY of the others I just mentioned.  I believe my Yammy at at 87 AA, while the others are at 99 or 100.  (I don't know what the Republique or Roma is like btw)

I'd love to see the Yammy get an AA boost, either as a consumable or a refit of the existing AA.  If I was a carrier, I'd go after her first, before I attacked any of the others.

 

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3 hours ago, nagasakee said:

I have a Conqueror, Montana, Grober Kurfurst and a Yamato.  I love the Yamato the most, but in all honesty her AA does not match ANY of the others I just mentioned.  I believe my Yammy at at 87 AA, while the others are at 99 or 100.  (I don't know what the Republique or Roma is like btw)

I'd love to see the Yammy get an AA boost, either as a consumable or a refit of the existing AA.  If I was a carrier, I'd go after her first, before I attacked any of the others.

 

There's no need for Yamato to get an AA buff because an AA spec on her is actually very good.  87 AA rating tells me you have Secondary Spec Yamato, and you want better AA from not even speccing into it?

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Yamato's only AA problem when spec towards AA (I run AA mod on mine) is that they are all centralized to her center SS. This makes it far more likely to have huge swaths of her AA guns wiped out fast. Whereas the USN Monty has them all over the place, Conq has hers buried in the SS/All over the place, Yamatos are all in one big clump and a single 419mm round from Conq can see half of 1 side destroyed.

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Yammie will always kill a chunk of a squadron with AA but is not able to prevent the planes from dropping their payload unfortunately, so for most CV they get a more than fair trade from their POV making yammie a CV target

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35 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

There's no need for Yamato to get an AA buff because an AA spec on her is actually very good.  87 AA rating tells me you have Secondary Spec Yamato, and you want better AA from not even speccing into it?

Yep, but so are the others (I play mostly co-op) so still apples to apples

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6 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

All AA guns will simply die from HE spam, so it's not worth investing in AA.

Conqueror can strip off most of Montana's AA in 1 or 2 salvos, so there.

Come to think of it, Conqueror HE can strip off about 80% of Des Moines AA power in one salvo, so that's that.

 

I've been shot a in various ships by a conqueror a few times, they still rarely kill the DP mounts, which are what really matters. 60% of Yamato's AAA comes from those. Knocking out the 25mm may hurt, but it's not the end of her AAA.

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7 hours ago, nagasakee said:

Yep, but so are the others (I play mostly co-op) so still apples to apples

The IJN had traditionally, historically been complete sh*t in their AA capabilities, that is why most of their ships have such poor AA :Smile_teethhappy:  The version of Yamato we have?  That was the best AA fit the Japanese could offer on any of their Battleships, and Yamato-class did not get it until wayyyy late in 1944.

 

If you are indeed running for mostly co-op, then your Secondary Spec Yamato will have more than enough AA to do the job, especially Tier VIII CVs.  The Bot CVs she will face do not run Air Supremacy for the +1 DB plane per DB unit, nor do they run fully upgraded aircraft and mods to make the planes tougher or faster.  You'll be fine.  If you have the doubloons to spare, try AA Yamato out.  You'll be very happy, as co-op does like to throw frequent CVs for you to shoot their planes down, and her AA will give you a sense of untouchable safety that you won't have with other Yamato specs.  Musashi in particular is deeply troubled by air attack as she has the Pre-1944, Non-AA Refit.  Even if Musashi players try to spec her for AA, the returns are sh*t.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

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8 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The IJN had traditionally, historically been complete sh*t in their AA capabilities, that is why most of their ships have such poor AA :Smile_teethhappy:  The version of Yamato we have?  That was the best AA fit the Japanese could offer on any of their Battleships, and Yamato-class did not get it until wayyyy late in 1944.

 

If you are indeed running for mostly co-op, then your Secondary Spec Yamato will have more than enough AA to do the job, especially Tier VIII CVs.  The Bot CVs she will face do not run Air Supremacy for the +1 DB plane per DB unit, nor do they run fully upgraded aircraft and mods to make the planes tougher or faster.  You'll be fine.  If you have the doubloons to spare, try AA Yamato out.  You'll be very happy, as co-op does like to throw frequent CVs for you to shoot their planes down, and her AA will give you a sense of untouchable safety that you won't have with other Yamato specs.  Musashi in particular is deeply troubled by air attack as she has the Pre-1944, Non-AA Refit.  Even if Musashi players try to spec her for AA, the returns are sh*t.

Yes, in the gif I posted here, the Yamato's AA is easily overwhelmed and destroyed by fighters.  And that was Yamato's final mission.

Edited by Sventex

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The IJN had traditionally, historically been complete sh*t in their AA capabilities, that is why most of their ships have such poor AA :Smile_teethhappy:  The version of Yamato we have?  That was the best AA fit the Japanese could offer on any of their Battleships, and Yamato-class did not get it until wayyyy late in 1944.

 

If you are indeed running for mostly co-op, then your Secondary Spec Yamato will have more than enough AA to do the job, especially Tier VIII CVs.  The Bot CVs she will face do not run Air Supremacy for the +1 DB plane per DB unit, nor do they run fully upgraded aircraft and mods to make the planes tougher or faster.  You'll be fine.  If you have the doubloons to spare, try AA Yamato out.  You'll be very happy, as co-op does like to throw frequent CVs for you to shoot their planes down, and her AA will give you a sense of untouchable safety that you won't have with other Yamato specs.  Musashi in particular is deeply troubled by air attack as she has the Pre-1944, Non-AA Refit.  Even if Musashi players try to spec her for AA, the returns are sh*t.

thanks much, great post and much appreciated!  gave you an upvote too. I will try that buildout as well.

 

Edited by nagasakee

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2 hours ago, nagasakee said:

thanks much, great post and much appreciated!  gave you an upvote too. I will try that buildout as well.

 

To give you a contrasting experience, maybe something you may have experienced.

 

A day or two ago I was trying a Secondary Spec Musashi in Co-op.  The 2 other players on the team died.  Our Atago sailed straight and ate a face full of Kiev torpedoes, and a Shokaku TB strike finished him off.  I had to deal with my bot mirror, Kiev, Atago.  I was still in great health when I destroyed them all.  But the last player, another Musashi, was on the other side of the map and died, but he did take a bot with him.  The problem was the red bot team had 2/3 caps, but I could try and sail to B and seize it, just in case something were to happen to me.  The logic was that should something happen to me, the last ship of the team, a bot CV, would still be alive and time would count down with 2/3 caps for us for a victory.

 

The problem was the enemy CV.  It was only a bot, but I was in a Musashi.  The CV kept on sending staggered bomber attacks against me, I'd avoid almost all the torps and maybe get 1 DB hit on me, but the problem was the floods, fires sticking for big damage.  Dealing with CVs isn't new to me in PVP, but in a yooge boat like Yamato-class coupled with utterly worthless AA of Musashi, there was only so much avoiding I could do before the flood / fire DOTs stuck and DCP was on CD.

 

Your Secondary Spec Yamato will be fine against most of the CVs you'll deal with, but Hakuryu, Midway, etc. may be a problem.  Shokaku, Lexington bombers will be easy to deal with Sec.Spec Yamato AA.  My suggestion, without taking the expensive Capt Respec route?  Swap out your SBM2 for AAGM2 for 25 doubloons.  If you feel a bit more daring, swap out your SBM3 / MBM3 with AAGM3 also.  Your Sec.Spec Captain already has AFT & BFT, so no need to radically change that part of the build.  See how Yamato's AA holds up for you in Tier X Co-op.  It's very useful because when you do Tier X Co-op, it's not surprising to be the lone player.  So, when you do get into that scenario where you are the only ship left of the team, but the CVs are still around, you feel secure with good AA and not go through the pressure my Poor AA, Sec.Spec Musashi did.  The good AA, when you're the last guy, and you STILL have to finish dealing with remaining surface ships on top of air strikes is reassuring.  Focus more on surface fighting and let the AA whittle down the bombers before they do meaningful damage to you.

 

Also, be sure to manually target the most threatening bomber unit for extra AA DPS.

 

If you are absolutely crazy, you can even incorporate Manual AA on top of all this, but just do the AAGM2 just to give you a taste at first.

 

My Yamato AA experiment is 100% towards AA.  AFT, BFT, Manual AA traits, AAGM2 & 3.  That has some issues in PVP, but for Co-op, it's a security blanket.

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On 4/1/2018 at 7:41 PM, crazyferret23777 said:

I've heard the Yammy's AA is terrible even if you spec it to the max so I'm using things like MFM3 instead. How should I approach matches with high tier cv's? Division up with a good AA BB like the Iowa maybe?

Don't bother with trying to spec AA on the Yami, vast majority of it is short ranged and wont ever save you from a CV who wants to drop on you.

Spec for endurance and concealment, its much more usefull.

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