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Komrade_Rylo

Do not riot over midway nerf.

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I lovey midway. I'm going to be deeply disappointed if WG nerfs her bc in her current state her and haku are about even. But this change is still in ST. We don't know whether or not it's going to go through, and if we riot over this then it gives WG less reason to continue giving us information through the dev post Facebook page.  We need to see if this change becomes official before we riot, although if it does go through, then we take issue with it.

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LOL what WG/NA wants is completely irrelevant, as a well known WG apologist keeps saying. "WG balances on the RU server."

 

Cirran 

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1 minute ago, Fog_Battleship_NCarolina said:

I lovey midway. I'm going to be deeply disappointed if WG nerfs her bc in her current state her and haku are about even. But this change is still in ST. We don't know whether or not it's going to go through, and if we riot over this then it gives WG less reason to continue giving us information through the dev post Facebook page.  We need to see if this change becomes official before we riot, although if it does go through, then we take issue with it.

I agree, I just want it to not happen

 

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Your assuming wargaming actually listens to the super testers which we have a couple in my clan. The super testers in general  always complain that wargaming never listens or takes thier feed back seriously! The only way to stop the change is to make wargaming realize how this is going to make their $$ base unhappy. Best example is the Alabama crap they tried to pull on the community! Everyone voiced there opinion and the community won!

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2 minutes ago, Buckeyefan21x said:

Your assuming wargaming actually listens to the super testers which we have a couple in my clan. The super testers in general  always complain that wargaming never listens or takes thier feed back seriously! The only way to stop the change is to make wargaming realize how this is going to make their $$ base unhappy. Best example is the Alabama crap they tried to pull on the community! Everyone voiced there opinion and the community won!

same applies to the Graf Zeppelin, although the circumstances were different but the principle still the same. 

 

(but then again the results of that were still terrible)

 

you'd need massive backlash on a server-wide scale to get that kind of change.

Edited by Combined_Fleet_HQ

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Knowing WG, whatever they plan, they push it through anyway, no matter what reception it has gotten...

Spoiler

e.g. Planes 2.0...:Smile_sceptic:

And thus, why people take the pre-emptive...

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Why do you guys feel that Midway having a 9.5% higher win rate than Hankuryu is ok?

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Just now, Helstrem said:

Why do you guys feel that Midway having a 9.5% higher win rate than Hankuryu is ok?

 

its not okay...

 

...however, and WG has a pre-established issue with this, is when WG notice a crack in their wall their plan is to simply destroy the wall rather than run some plaster over it and touch it up to make it look like it was never there.

 

WG's changes are, majority of the time, exaggerated solutions which breed more issues either related or unrelated to the original problem they intended to fix 

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War Gaming doesn't fix anything if you don't angry about it.

The only reason Cruisers don't cause riots is because neither War Gaming nor the player base largely cares about them.

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I think the nerf is warranted, the amount of planes lets the midway still have full squadrons well into the late game.

That said, I think the torp planes should get a small HP buff to compensate, like make them t9 with 80 more hitpoints. People complain about the tier difference of the planes and fighters, but the fighters strafe 10x better than the Hak strafe.

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16 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

Why do you guys feel that Midway having a 9.5% higher win rate than Hankuryu is ok?

Because it doesn't anymore.  When it did have yeah,  that was a major issue but now its down to around a two percent,  seven thousand damage difference.  And Wargaming THEMSELVES have stated that they are about on equal footing now except in longer matches but the Midway also uses predominantly lower tier planes, they are going to get shredded quickly and ergo she needs the numbers to compensate.  

But it isn't JUST that.  One tier down the Taiho is destroying the Essex with an 8% lead in win rate and doing more then 20,000 damage ahead on average.  By your own admission, why do you feel like THAT is okay?

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There is balancing and then there is deliberate handicapping. Dollars to donuts they'll handicap USN CLs as well.

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4 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Because it doesn't anymore.  When it did have yeah,  that was a major issue but now its down to around a two percent,  seven thousand damage difference.  And Wargaming THEMSELVES have stated that they are about on equal footing now except in longer matches but the Midway also uses predominantly lower tier planes, they are going to get shredded quickly and ergo she needs the numbers to compensate.  

But it isn't JUST that.  One tier down the Taiho is destroying the Essex with an 8% lead in win rate and doing more then 20,000 damage ahead on average.  By your own admission, why do you feel like THAT is okay?

Check the EU server, its a lot more closer than you think. Essex is very powerful. When you play a taiho against an essex its not a simple insta win, its actually difficult to strike even if theres 1 essex fighter squadron since the strafe is so powerful on USN fighters.

You should play a bunch of games in the Taiho and tell me what you think. The Essex is not some pushover compared to the Taiho by no means. 

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I think there should be a hit point nerf, but not a damage or speed nerf. The CVs are close to balance, but for longer games, the extra planes will out damage and outlive the Hakuryu. The slower speed can be frustrating as enemy attack aircraft (Hak TBs, which have 8km of detectability) can travel and strike a target 10km away from your fighters faster than your fighters can get there with the speed nerf. 

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5 minutes ago, AdmiralDrake said:

Check the EU server, its a lot more closer than you think. Essex is very powerful. When you play a taiho against an essex its not a simple insta win, its actually difficult to strike even if theres 1 essex fighter squadron since the strafe is so powerful on USN fighters.

You should play a bunch of games in the Taiho and tell me what you think. The Essex is not some pushover compared to the Taiho by no means. 

Now go check the RU and Asian servers.  Its a TWELVE PERCENT DIFFERENCE on the Asian servers and four percent in the Russian.  Either way,  still much,  MUCH higher than the Midway versus Hakuryu.  You can't just cherry pick one example, man.

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riot riot riot!

In the end not matters wg dont care for us anyway only for bb playerbase.

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45 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

War Gaming doesn't fix anything if you don't angry about it.

The only reason Cruisers don't cause riots is because neither War Gaming nor the player base largely cares about them.

False. It's because BB doesn't really have an issue dealing with them. If it presents a problem for Battleship it threatens the game and must be dealt with. 

DD? Evil. Nerf at all costs. 

CV? Evil. Nerf at all costs.

CA? Overmatch, lolololol but nerf HE and Fire chance, just in case.

See what I'm saying? I agree its sensationalist to a degree but it's based on what we have experienced this far. 

 

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49 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

War Gaming doesn't fix anything if you don't angry about it.

The only reason Cruisers don't cause riots is because neither War Gaming nor the player base largely cares about them.

I care about Cruisers, but feel they are ok at the moment. There is a good variety of them and a lot of Pros to the class and only a few Cons that are reasonable and expected.

:fish_book:

 

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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I care about Cruisers, but feel they are ok at the moment. There is a good variety of them and a lot of Pros to the class and only a few Cons that are reasonable, expected, and annoying.

:fish_book:

 

Fixed it for you. (last sentence)

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16 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Now go check the RU and Asian servers.  Its a TWELVE PERCENT DIFFERENCE on the Asian servers and four percent in the Russian.  Either way,  still much,  MUCH higher than the Midway versus Hakuryu.  You can't just cherry pick one example, man.

Dude, I picked the EU due to the relative large number of battles. RU has nearly as many battles as EU. US and Asian servers have relatively low numbers when comparing so suffer from low sample size. You're exaggerating how "bad" the Essex is vs the Taiho by a lot

Taiho has about 6% higher win rate with about just a few thousand more damage per game. Check the top 5% and use that for comparison. The asian and NA servers have wider skill spreads so the differences are exaggerated. More people also tend to play the Essex more.

I'm looking at the overall picture and used the larger EU playerbase as the example. When looking at overall ship stats, the NA and asian servers aren't really good examples to compare due to smaller server populations

Edited by AdmiralDrake
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5 minutes ago, Canadatron said:

False. It's because BB doesn't really have an issue dealing with them. If it presents a problem for Battleship it threatens the game and must be dealt with. 

DD? Evil. Nerf at all costs. 

CV? Evil. Nerf at all costs.

CA? Overmatch, lolololol but nerf HE and Fire chance, just in case.

See what I'm saying? I agree its sensationalist to a degree but it's based on what we have experienced this far. 

 

Lol don’t forget some Cruisers  masquerade as BBs like Graf Spee “ Pocket Battleship”, then you have the Battlecruisers, Fast Battleships, and then regular BBs. So the lines between them can end up rather blurred between them at times, so Cruisers get spared from nerf hammer by being close cousins to the BBs. Lol glad I am investing heavily into Cruisers these days which should keep my ships from getting nerfed out from under me,

:Smile_teethhappy: 

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2 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Lol don’t forget some Cruisers  masquerade as BBs like Graf Spee “ Pocket Battleship”, then you have the Battlecruisers, Fast Battleships, and then regular BBs. So the lines between them can end up rather blurred between them at times, so Cruisers get spared from nerf hammer by being close cousins to the BBs. Lol glad I am investing heavily into Cruisers these days which should keep my ships from getting nerfed out from under me,

:Smile_teethhappy: 

I played DM the first time in space battles and it's a beauty. 123k in my "first" DM match was beautiful (I even forgot to mount radar and hydro, derp). I will make a serious push up that line now I've seen what those ships are capable of. I almost don't want to try the Minotaur because I'm afraid of the time I'll spend on the game getting there once I have that kind of fun.  End game cruisers seem like they are in a very capable spot.

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People REALLY hate statistics on this forum.  If it doesn't agree with whatever their particular confirmation bias is,  they dislike it.  Now I remember why I stopped visiting this place.

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2 minutes ago, Palladia said:

People REALLY hate statistics on this forum.  If it doesn't agree with whatever their particular confirmation bias is,  they dislike it.  Now I remember why I stopped visiting this place.

Not everyone man. I love stats, and it's one of the things I try to work from most. You are right though, if the numbers are inconvenient they tend to get ignored.

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8 minutes ago, Canadatron said:

Not everyone man. I love stats, and it's one of the things I try to work from most. You are right though, if the numbers are inconvenient they tend to get ignored.

I know it isn't everyone and I shouldn't blanket statement like that.  And in this case the guy has a clear bias,  considering his most played CV is the Taiho. And he has a fifty nine percent win rate in it.  Its an automatic knee jerk reaction of "nooo don't nerf my ship!" without looking at the whole picture because heaven help a ship receive a nerf or its counter receive a buff.

I'm a USN CV player and while I don't have the Midway yet,  it was easy to see that she badly needed that first nerf.  Its really,  REALLY not hard to put your bias aside and admit when these things are happening but you'd think its the end of the world for some people.

Edit:  Oh.  I get it now.  The only server where the Hakuryu is being greatly outperformed by her counterpart is the Russian server.  Still,  this isn't a statistical buff so if USN CV captains play smart they can probably still work it out.  Its just irritating that they had to reduce to UNDER the Hakuryu's hangar capacity when the Hak is swinging all T10s and the USN are swinging Tier 8 and 9 with a few 10s.

My prediction is that this is an over-nerf that's going to see the Midway fall behind the Hakuryu again.

Edited by Palladia
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