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deltatrooper653

WG, instead of nerfing the Midway....

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How about buffing the Hakuryu instead?  WG has stated in their FB development blog that the reason for the nerf is because the Hakuryu is struggling in long games against the Midway. Going by personnel experience in both CV's, the reason why it is the case is because the Hak's fighters simply do not keep up with the Midway's fighters, even with them being downtiered. Having drastically weaker fighters creates a domino effect, in which the Hak struggles to intercept the Midway's strike planes, while the Midway has little issue in doing the same to the Hak. This in turns mean that the Hak gets deplaned more frequently than her US counterpart, which leads to the Midway being uncontested in the skies, which leads to cries of her being OP due to having free reign over the surface ships.

 

The more sensible solution is not to give a sledgehammer nerf to the Midway's hanger capacity, but to instead, increase the Hakuryu's combat capabilities, mainly, her fighters. 

 

The way i would handle the buff, is to give the Hakuryu 10 more fighters, bumping up the total fighter count from 25 to 35 against the Midway's current 42, as well as giving the Hak's fighters slightly more ammo. This would ensure that the Hak would have more longevity on longer matches, as well as doing a better job of keeping the Midway in check. 

 

As a player who has spend almost 1/4 of my total games in Cv's, i highly advocate for proper CV balancing, especially between nations, and while the Midway is admit-tingly a little too strong in her current iteration, giving it such a insensible and needless nerf is such not the solution, especially since there exist much better alternatives in balancing the 2 CV's. Given that that Hakuryu has remained relatively untouched for more than 2 years, and considering the more recent US CV reworks, it would be more sensible to simply just update and buff her to bring her closer to the Midway instead. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

That doesn't actually solve the problem of Midway having the stronger fighter squads.

USN fighters have always been stronger individually than their IJN counterparts. The disparity however, is too great at tier X. Strafing is the tool for an IJN cv to hold its own against USN fighters and giving them more ammo would go a long way in helping the Hak deal with the Midway.

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2 minutes ago, deltatrooper653 said:

USN fighters have always been stronger individually than their IJN counterparts. The disparity however, is too great at tier X. Strafing is the tool for an IJN cv to hold its own against USN fighters and giving them more ammo would go a long way in helping the Hak deal with the Midway.

So what if you give them more ammo? How does that change anything?
Midway fighters will still have:

  • 2 extra planes per squad
  • Stronger strafe thanks to the extra planes

These advantages ensure that Midway will always have an upper hand in fighter engagements and overall air control.

At least the WG proposed hangar reduction solves the problem of Midway's retarded never ending plane supply.

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A buff Hakuryu thread. It's a brave new world.

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5 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

So what if you give them more ammo? How does that change anything?
Midway fighters will still have:

  • 2 extra planes per squad
  • Stronger strafe thanks to the extra planes

These advantages ensure that Midway will always have an upper hand in fighter engagements and overall air control.

At least the WG proposed hangar reduction solves the problem of Midway's retarded never ending plane supply.

More ammo means more strafes for the Hak's fighters, which gives the Hak player more opportunities to deal with the Midway's fighters. It also gives them more longevity in a click fight as you won't run out of ammo as easily while click fighting, and it allows you to go after the Midway's strike planes after a fighter engagement as you will have the ammo to do so. The Midway may still have the upper hand, but giving more ammo to the Hak's fighters means it is no longer a one sided roflstomp in the Midway's favor every time the 2 engage each other.

 

That hanger won't seem as endless if the Hakuryu actually has a greater capability in culling those planes.

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1 minute ago, deltatrooper653 said:

More ammo means more strafes for the Hak's fighters, which gives the Hak player more opportunities to deal with the Midway's fighters. It also gives them more longevity in a click fight as you won't run out of ammo as easily while click fighting, and it allows you to go after the Midway's strike planes after a fighter engagement as you will have the ammo to do so. The Midway may still have the upper hand, but giving more ammo to the Hak's fighters means it is no longer a one sided roflstomp in the Midway's favor every time the 2 engage each other.

 

That hanger won't seem as endless if the Hakuryu actually has a greater capability in culling those planes.

No it's still a one-sided roflstomp for the Midway as long as Midway has enough ammo for its superior fighters. It doesn't matter how much ammo the Haku gets because it will lose anyway. It doesn't change anything.

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Just now, FleetAdmiral_Assassin said:

Extra ammo doesn't help if the plane has already been shot down...

 

3 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

No it's still a one-sided roflstomp for the Midway as long as Midway has enough ammo for its superior fighters. It doesn't matter how much ammo the Haku gets because it will lose anyway. It doesn't change anything.

The same can be said for the Midway once the Hak gets a good strafe in. And like i said earlier, having more ammo means you can now go after the Midway's strike planes once his fighters are out of the equation.

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4 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

No it's still a one-sided roflstomp for the Midway as long as Midway has enough ammo for its superior fighters. It doesn't matter how much ammo the Haku gets because it will lose anyway. It doesn't change anything.

Suuuuuure

 

image.thumb.png.8d47e17b18ee15dc5d509e4a1cc7dbf9.png

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1 minute ago, deltatrooper653 said:

 

The same can be said for the Midway once the Hak gets a good strafe in. And like i said earlier, having more ammo means you can now go after the Midway's strike planes once his fighters are out of the equation.

You've essentially conceded that the Haku would still have to massively outplay the Midway to win.

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7 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

Suuuuuure

 

image.thumb.png.8d47e17b18ee15dc5d509e4a1cc7dbf9.png

Are you also going to use that same webpage to argue how broken the Shinonome is at T6 now?

BTW, good job of not filtering the 2 week stats.

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2 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

You've essentially conceded that the Haku would still have to massively outplay the Midway to win.

I never said that the Hak never needed to do that. My points, in a nutshell, are saying that the Hak would not need to put in as much of a disproportionate effort as it is now to outplay the Midway if her fighters are given an ammo buff, and possibly a increase in fighter capacity as well. Its becoming increasingly evident that you are ignorant about the greater options offered to a CV captain if his/her fighters have more ammo.

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1 minute ago, CarefreeTongue said:

Are you also going to use that same webpage to argue how broken the Shinonome is at T6 now?

BTW, good job of not filtering the 2 week stats.

oh yes a usn cv cant be better then ijn 2 weeks, its neeed be nerfed util ground!

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Just now, deltatrooper653 said:

I never said that the Hak never needed to do that. My points, in a nutshell, are saying that the Hak would not need to put in as much of a disproportionate effort as it is now to outplay the Midway if her fighters are given an ammo buff, and possibly a increase in fighter capacity as well. Its becoming increasingly evident that you are ignorant about the greater options offered to a CV captain if his/her fighters have more ammo.

And I'm telling you your proposed fix doesn't solve anything. It's becoming increasingly evident that you are ignorant of the reasons why Midway is currently so much more powerful than the Hakuryu.

2 minutes ago, HyenaHiena said:

oh yes a usn cv cant be better then ijn 2 weeks, its neeed be nerfed util ground!

Is that why you've played over 4x as much Midway as you've played Haku over the last 90 days?

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1 minute ago, CarefreeTongue said:

Is that why you've played over 4x as much Midway as you've played Haku over the last 90 days?

No, i just like a lot more usn cvs and dislike a lot ijn lines :)

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1 minute ago, CarefreeTongue said:

And I'm telling you your proposed fix doesn't solve anything. It's becoming increasingly evident that you are ignorant of the reasons why Midway is currently so much more powerful than the Hakuryu.

Midway is better right now because she has the fighters to ensure her massive strike gets through. Hence, my proposed solution narrows the gap in capabilities between the 2 CV's fighters, allowing a skilled Hak player more avenues to deal with the Midway's  fighters and strike planes.  So i have absolutely no idea why your so against the idea of a Hakuryu buff.

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1 minute ago, deltatrooper653 said:

Midway is better right now because she has the fighters to ensure her massive strike gets through. Hence, my proposed solution narrows the gap in capabilities between the 2 CV's fighters, allowing a skilled Hak player more avenues to deal with the Midway's  fighters and strike planes.  So i have absolutely no idea why your so against the idea of a Hakuryu buff.

You're not narrowing the cap in capabilities; you're just making the Haku bleed slightly slower. At the end of the day, Hakuryu will still have the same 10 planes in the air versus the 14 from the Midway. Problem is, that doesn't actually stop the bleeding because Midway still has an absolute advantage in both striking and air control which is the core of the problem. An actual solution would be to give the Hakuryu the advantage in either air control or striking potential relative to Midway.

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2 minutes ago, CarefreeTongue said:

You're not narrowing the cap in capabilities; you're just making the Haku bleed slightly slower. At the end of the day, Hakuryu will still have the same 10 planes in the air versus the 14 from the Midway. Problem is, that doesn't actually stop the bleeding because Midway still has an absolute advantage in both striking and air control which is the core of the problem. An actual solution would be to give the Hakuryu the advantage in either air control or striking potential relative to Midway.

Its funny how u mentioned the striking and air control issue, cos what WG is planning to do does not address the issue either. The Midway will still retain the same fighter and strike capabilities as before, the only difference being that the one behind the wheel actually has to manage his plane reserves and consequently, less support for the team as the Midway no longer has the plane reserves to offset the absurd tier X AA.

 

So instead of doing a sledgehammer nerf that will only serve to frustrate players, why not give incremental buffs to the competition instead?

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I actually started play USN again because of the changes. All tiers IMHO improved a bunch. Only AS which was cancer anyways was removed and that ticked those players. Which was needed as those guys caused me to stop playing IJN.

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Just now, deltatrooper653 said:

Its funny how u mentioned the striking and air control issue, cos what WG is planning to do does not address the issue either. The Midway will still retain the same fighter and strike capabilities as before, the only difference being that the one behind the wheel actually has to manage his plane reserves and consequently, less support for the team as the Midway no longer has the plane reserves to offset the absurd tier X AA.

You're right, it doesn't address the core issue to T10 CV balance. But it does at least solve the relatively minor problem of Midway having a retardedly huge hangar. That's just low-hanging fruit.

 

3 minutes ago, deltatrooper653 said:

So instead of doing a sledgehammer nerf that will only serve to frustrate players, why not give incremental buffs to the competition instead?

This is essentially what WG did and is still doing in WoT: Powercreep everything to 11.

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You want to buff something that does as much damage as most T10 BB's, that reasonably provides more spotting than any two destroyers and which typically shoots down more planes for your team than any one other ship?

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42 minutes ago, mohawkdriver said:

What?

 

What he means is aside from BBs, USN generally gets the shaft though there are rare exceptions.

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There is one silver possible lining. If Midway actually gets t10 planes with USN characteristics reworked. Aka jets that have more HP/Speed/Attack. But less planes than Hakuryu, the hangar nerf will be needed. If she doesn't get t10 planes. Consider her dead.

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