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_MiDKnighTx_

Aigle as a French BB Captain Trainer?

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Not a big fan of Aigle but I as a premium I see the benefit of using it to both credit farm and captain train.  I'd love to train my French BB captains on it but with no "Last Stand" that could be disastrous at times...

Any recommendations for modules, flags, etc... to make this a viable French BB captain trainer with no last stand?  I assume Propulsion Mod 1 is a must...  Anything else?

Edited by _MiDKnighTx_

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28 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

Not a big fan of Aigle but I as a premium I see the benefit of using it to both credit farm and captain train.  I'd love to train my French BB captains on it but with no "Last Stand" that could be disastrous at times...

Any recommendations for modules, flags, etc... to make this a viable French BB captain trainer with no last stand?  I assume Propulsion Mod 1 is a must...  Anything else?

I don't use last stand on any of my DDs, that's right not a one. You can get your damage control party down to around 30 seconds. I use propulsion modification 1 upgrade because the engines are more important than your rudder. Preventive maintenance helps both the propulsion and the rudder. I find last stand isn't necessary at all. Battle ship captain settings work just fine for me usually. With a trainer you have to take what the captains skills currently are or cost yourself lots of doubloons or elite and free XP to change it. The best way to tell is to stick your captain in it and give it a whirl.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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The Aigle isn't really a great BB trainer.  Heck, premium DDs in general aren't good DD *BB* trainers.  Premium BBs (obviously) and cruisers are generally better BB trainers.  In the case of the French BBs, that'd be the T6 Dunkerque or the T8 Gascogne.  

I will say though that the Aigle can be a pretty good French cruiser trainer, because the high tier French CA's (T8 and T9) both really need Last Stand, which of course makes their captain pretty well suited to put in a DD.

Edited by Crucis
Typo.

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7 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I don't use last stand on any of my DDs, that's right not a one. You can get your damage control party down to around 30 seconds. I use propulsion modification 1 upgrade because the engines are more important than your rudder. Preventive maintenance helps both the propulsion and the rudder. I find last stand isn't necessary at all. Battle ship captain settings work just fine for me usually. With a trainer you have to take what the captains skills currently are or cost yourself lots of doubloons or elite and free XP to change it. The best way to tell is to stick your captain in it and give it a whirl.

Dawg, you may not use LS on your DDs, but I'd say that you're the exception not the rule.  I think that most good DD players would probably say that you're just plain crazy to not use LS.  

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3 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I don't use last stand on any of my DDs, that's right not a one. You can get your damage control party down to around 30 seconds. I use propulsion modification 1 upgrade because the engines are more important than your rudder. Preventive maintenance helps both the propulsion and the rudder. I find last stand isn't necessary at all. Battle ship captain settings work just fine for me usually. With a trainer you have to take what the captains skills currently are or cost yourself lots of doubloons or elite and free XP to change it. The best way to tell is to stick your captain in it and give it a whirl.

No last stand?  How many times have you taken the merry go round of death?  :cap_hmm:

giphy.gif

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

 I will say though that the Aigle can be a pretty good French cruiser trainer, because the high tier French CA's (T8 and T9) both really need Last Stand, which of course makes their captain pretty well suited to put in a DD.

I have a T4 French cruiser.  That's actually who my current Aigle captain is.   I kind of gave up on the French cruiser line because the shell arcs were driving me nuts.  Currently pushing German as my main cruiser line.  

So far I gather Propulsion Mod 1 + Repair Party II might be a good way to deal with no LS for a French BB captain.

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10 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

I have a T4 French cruiser.  That's actually who my current Aigle captain is.   I kind of gave up on the French cruiser line because the shell arcs were driving me nuts.  Currently pushing German as my main cruiser line.  

So far I gather Propulsion Mod 1 + Repair Party II might be a good way to deal with no LS for a French BB captain.

There's no need for LS on any BB that I can recall in the game.  Getting steering or engines knocked out is pretty rare for  BBs, though if you're running away from torpedoes but one hits you in the stern, there's a pretty good chance of the engine or steering getting knocked out.

 

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

There's no need for LS on any BB that I can recall in the game.  Getting steering or engines knocked out is pretty rare for  BBs, though if you're running away from torpedoes but one hits you in the stern, there's a pretty good chance of the engine or steering getting knocked out.

 

I know... none of my BB captains have LS. which is why I posted the question in the thread of how to mimic LS without having LS.  I did have my rudder knocked out on my Gneissenau once...took the merry go round of death.  

Edited by _MiDKnighTx_

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Heck, premium DDs in general aren't good DD trainers. 

I was confused about this statement.  I use Leningrad to train my Russian DD captains and Anshan to train my Pan Asian DD captains.  Why do you say that premium DD's aren't good captain trainers?

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41 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Dawg, you may not use LS on your DDs, but I'd say that you're the exception not the rule.  I think that most good DD players would probably say that you're just plain crazy to not use LS.  

I am a bit of a non conformist, my engines and rudder just don't seem to go out all that often. If they do I hit the cloaking device and the repair, which I try to keep as low (cool down time) as I can on all of my ships. The repair cool down is important to me because it fixes everything, Rudder Engine, fire flooding and damaged gun and torp modules.

 

40 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

No last stand?  How many times have you taken the merry go round of death?  :cap_hmm:

giphy.gif

Many times, but not very often because of engine and rudder failure.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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25 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

I was confused about this statement.  I use Leningrad to train my Russian DD captains and Anshan to train my Pan Asian DD captains.  Why do you say that premium DD's aren't good captain trainers?

Typo.  I meant to say that premium DDs are good *BB* trainers.  My bad.  :cap_fainting:

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35 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Dawg, you may not use LS on your DDs, but I'd say that you're the exception not the rule.  I think that most good DD players would probably say that you're just plain crazy to not use LS.  

I certainly would!

18 minutes ago, _MiDKnighTx_ said:

I was confused about this statement.  I use Leningrad to train my Russian DD captains and Anshan to train my Pan Asian DD captains.  Why do you say that premium DD's aren't good captain trainers?

Probably because many premium DDs have ... unique ... traits regular line ships do not. Leningrad's 8K torps are a good example, as no other Russian DD has torps with that kind of range. Other examples; Sim's turntable turrets; Akizuki's rapid firing 100 mm guns; Lo Yang's Hydro; Tachibana's rapid firing 76 mm guns; Smith's single shot rapid reload torps ... the list just goes on and on.

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

I certainly would!

It's the RNG, I may not get good points from my shell hits (lots of bounces, ricochets and over pens) but I don't seem to lose my steering and rudder very often. I know other people wouldn't do it with out Last Stand but then have they tried it with out it? or did they just jump on the band wagon. If I had a problem with it I would use last stand but I don't seem to have a problem with it. 212 ships in port and not 1 with LS.

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4 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I certainly would!

Probably because many premium DDs have ... unique ... traits regular line ships do not. Leningrad's 8K torps are a good example, as no other Russian DD has torps with that kind of range. Other examples; Sim's turntable turrets; Akizuki's rapid firing 100 mm guns; Lo Yang's Hydro; Tachibana's rapid firing 76 mm guns; Smith's single shot rapid reload torps ... the list just goes on and on.

Nah, Umi, it was just a typo.

That said, there are some premium DDs in their lines that aren't the best DD trainers due to mismatches in preferred skills.  For example, a lot of players don't use CE on the Khab.  But CE can be useful on the Leningrad due to those 8km torps.  Oh, you can play the Leningrad as a tier 7 Khab without CE, but IMHO it's a waste to have 8 km torps and the ability to stealth torp with CE and not take advantage of it.  Another example is that Russian DDs like the Khab have fairly fast turning turrets and don't necessarily require Expert Marksman, but the lower tier Russian premium DDs are definitely more comfortable to play with an EM trained captain.

And while not a DD, I find that the Atlanta isn't a particularly good cruiser trainer.  It seems to be more comfortable with a well trained DD captain than a CA captain.  And the Indianapolis, while not that great a premium cruiser, seems like a better USN cruiser trainer simply because it plays a lot more like a traditional cruiser than the Atlanta does.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

It's the RNG, I may not get good points from my shell hits (lots of bounces, ricochets and over pens) but I don't seem to lose my steering and rudder very often. I know other people wouldn't do it with out Last Stand but then have they tried it with out it? or did they just jump on the band wagon. If I had a problem with it I would use last stand but I don't seem to have a problem with it. 212 ships in port and not 1 with LS.

I've played DDs without Last Stand, and I'll never play another one without it.  I seem to get my engine or steering knocked out on DDs with disgusting regularity.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

I've played DDs without Last Stand, and I'll never play another one without it.  I seem to get my engine or steering knocked out on DDs with disgusting regularity.

I am not saying mine don't get knocked out, but Having a 32 second cool down on my Damage control party seems to cover it for me. They generally don't get knocked out again within another 32 seconds.

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1 hour ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I am not saying mine don't get knocked out, but Having a 32 second cool down on my Damage control party seems to cover it for me. They generally don't get knocked out again within another 32 seconds.

Mine do.  I can't tell you how often I've had an engine/steering knocked out, I hit the DC party, grace period expires, and I get hit with another engine/steering knock out hit.  It happens with ridiculous regularity.  Hell, I'm currently grinding the French cruiser line, and very shortly after getting the Martel, I discovered that it was super vulnerable to engine/rudder hits, so I quickly took Last Stand on her (thankfully I had 2 skill points available at the time).  And conveniently when I graduated to the Saint-Louis, my Martel captain went into the StL which I learned was also vulnerable to engine/rudder hits, so I was able to avoid any pain on this account since my captain still had LS.

 

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Mine do.  I can't tell you how often I've had an engine/steering knocked out, I hit the DC party, grace period expires, and I get hit with another engine/steering knock out hit.  It happens with ridiculous regularity.  Hell, I'm currently grinding the French cruiser line, and very shortly after getting the Martel, I discovered that it was super vulnerable to engine/rudder hits, so I quickly took Last Stand on her (thankfully I had 2 skill points available at the time).  And conveniently when I graduated to the Saint-Louis, my Martel captain went into the StL which I learned was also vulnerable to engine/rudder hits, so I was able to avoid any pain on this account since my captain still had LS.

 

Now that I said something I'm sure it will start happening more often.

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4 hours ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I know other people wouldn't do it with out Last Stand but then have they tried it with out it?

I'm with @Crucis on this one as I have had my steering and / or engine knocked out before and that equals dead DD. Yeah I've had to play without last stand when grinding new captains up; don't like that a bit.

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I played a few Aigle games with my uber French BB captain (no last stand) and was able to manage.  I used premium repair and tried to keep a smoke available.  If my engine got knocked out I'd repair, if I didn't have repair I'd smoke.  Definitely a different play style but I'm surviving and getting much needed captain XP for my French BB captain.  

You may ask, why not just grind in the french BB?

I'm also using Aigle for credit farming.  Premium ships generate more XP and credits.  

Edited by _MiDKnighTx_

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Honestly, while CAs and BBs can share captains, I really don't find DDs work well with BB captains at all because of the difference in key skills. BB captains should never use LS or SE, both of which are mainstay skills for DDs in my opinion. On the other hand, EM is really useful for BBs but completely wasted on  most DDs. Same with FP.

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tbh I found the Aigle is more like a light cruiser without a citadel than a DD.  I have last stand on her, though I'm not really sure how often things get knocked out I run LS so much on my DDs.  Any other nation say... IJN.  One HE to the nose breaks your rudder, hit the the bum knocks out your engine and a shell splash in the water disables everything.

 

when they changed LS to not work when retraining captains I couldn't tell you how much I swore when I realized my engine wasn't giving me power and my rudder wasn't wiggling

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You can get away without running LS on a DD, But it's only really the higher tiered ones with access to SGM3 at the expense of CSM1 and max Conceal. 

But honestly a DD is significantly more effective with LS savings DCP for fires and other repair issues. 

---

As for Aigle as a BB Trainer, I'm assuming you're not looking to purchase a Dunkerque or Gascogne. If you have the CL, she'll probably better suited as trainer. The lesser dependency on LS for a Cruiser is more in line with a BB. 

If you're going Secondaries for your French BBs, I'm going to assume your planning on getting IFHE and AFT at some point. Which will would well when the commander is transferred to Aigle or the CL. 

TL;DR for Agile as a BB Trainer:

It's possible, you can do it. But it's 70-30 bad time VS great success.  

My Honorés cmdr doesn't have LS when on Agile, but it's very important to remember that he doesn't. When I remember it's "okay" when I forget, I'm off playing a different ship in port. 

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The 2 situations I try to avoid in this no LS Aigle...

Engine going out:

DHA3Vwn.gif&f=1

Or rudder going out:

giphy.gif&f=1

 

With premium repair there's a good chance I can either repair or smoke when one of these happens but sometimes not...  

Edited by _MiDKnighTx_

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DD in general aren't great BB captain trainer. Unless your BB has LS which is questionnable . There is nothing you can do to effectively prevent engine knock out or rudder. Even when you dodge shell sometime you can lose a module, it happens a lot of time in my Zao and its torps tube so with a DD it's even worse.

 

 

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