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LukeV

I do not feel this is fair.

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[Incoming Salt Alert]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

In a random team game, which of these teams would you prefer to be on, in a 3-cap domination?

G. Kurfurst G.Kurfurst
Yamato Conqueror
Iowa Iowa
F. Der Grosse F. Der Grosse
Lion Alsace
Hindenburg Des Moines
Zao Des Moines
Neptune D. Donskoi
Baltimore Z-46
Ognevoi Z-46
Gearing Z-52
Kagero

Benson

They are good ships, but you just cannot compete. You are boxed out of the vital areas of the map with radars and sonars. Landing torps on any of the BB's or DD's while their sonars up is near impossible. You have little chance of having a competitive game. This also does not include the level of skill that random teams often produce.

This is not about winning or losing. It's about having a relatively level playing field. And, to me, it's easy to fix. I don't care about the German BB or DD's sonar, it's a nice perk. At the very least, cruisers with radar need to be weighted in the MM correctly, so teams get an equal amount.  3-1 Radars, and 3-0 sonar DD matches are not fun. How many times do we have to repeat this?

Instead they spend their resources designing an April Fools event that will last 1-2 weeks, and expect us to believe the space camo costs 8k gold.

THIS IS MADNESS. MADNESS.

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What guarantee do I have that those two Des Moines have radar and not a scout plane?

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MM has a way of generating Salt.

WG has a way of taking your mind off of the problems of daily grind.

Embrace the Enginuity. 

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8 minutes ago, Compassghost said:

What guarantee do I have that those two Des Moines have radar and not a scout plane?

And that Neptune sporting radar?

 

On a more serious note...it really boils down to playing to one's strengths and the enemy's weaknesses.  The team that can do that best will win this one.  

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3 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

And that Neptune sporting radar?

 

On a more serious note...it really boils down to playing to one's strengths and the enemy's weaknesses.  The team that can do that best will win this one.  

I would be inclined to agree normally, but not on a domination capture map. They simply have too many advantages.

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5 minutes ago, Condor_Legion said:

Another cry a river thread.

The game does not get improved by people slinging insults at people who give input about what they like or dislike about the game. This is why there is a Forum. Even if it is salty input.

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4 minutes ago, LukeV said:

I would be inclined to agree normally, but not on a domination capture map. They simply have too many advantages.

Luke, while I agree that the MM doesn't look fair, I've certainly seen teams that had MM that appeared "bad" for them win and teams that seemed to have a significant advantage over the other teams lose.  However, I'll also say that I think that those cases are the exception rather than the rule, which is why I'd still think that MM needs to be tweaked some more to try to smooth out some of these bad team composition mixes.

Just for starters, looking at the two teams' DDs, there's a, IMO, terrible mismatch.  For one thing, one team has 3 DDs and the other 4 DDs in a domination mode battle, which isn't really all that fair.  But what's worse is that the team with only 3 DDs actually has 1 t10 and 2 t8s vs a team with 1 t10, 2 t9s, and 1 t8.  If the two teams are going to have a mismatch in numbers of DDs, the team with fewer DDs should be the team with the slightly stronger (in terms of tier) DDs.  For example, perhaps it should really be more like: 1 t10, 2 t9s versus 1 t10, 1 t9, and 2 t8s.  This seems like a better balance.  Or even 1 t10 and 2 t9s versus 1 t10, 2 t9s, and 1 t8.  But the way that the teams actually were assigned has the team with fewer DDs at a double disadvantage, first in numbers and then in tiers of the DDs.

 

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14 minutes ago, LukeV said:

I would be inclined to agree normally, but not on a domination capture map. They simply have too many advantages.

But did they use them correctly? Plenty of people be like

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRi3YX31IELTStmYZjPzIi

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35 minutes ago, LukeV said:

cruisers with radar need to be weighted in the MM correctly

Radar doesn't pick up torpedoes. It's been tougher to play DDs as of late. We just gotta get smarter and change our play style.

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13 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Luke, while I agree that the MM doesn't look fair, I've certainly seen teams that had MM that appeared "bad" for them win and teams that seemed to have a significant advantage over the other teams lose.  However, I'll also say that I think that those cases are the exception rather than the rule, which is why I'd still think that MM needs to be tweaked some more to try to smooth out some of these bad team composition mixes.

Just for starters, looking at the two teams' DDs, there's a, IMO, terrible mismatch.  For one thing, one team has 3 DDs and the other 4 DDs in a domination mode battle, which isn't really all that fair.  But what's worse is that the team with only 3 DDs actually has 1 t10 and 2 t8s vs a team with 1 t10, 2 t9s, and 1 t8.  If the two teams are going to have a mismatch in numbers of DDs, the team with fewer DDs should be the team with the slightly stronger (in terms of tier) DDs.  For example, perhaps it should really be more like: 1 t10, 2 t9s versus 1 t10, 1 t9, and 2 t8s.  This seems like a better balance.  Or even 1 t10 and 2 t9s versus 1 t10, 2 t9s, and 1 t8.  But the way that the teams actually were assigned has the team with fewer DDs at a double disadvantage, first in numbers and then in tiers of the DDs.

 

I agree with you. But this type of balancing will probably be much harder to do than simply balancing radars.

And yes, I have been on teams that I thought "Wow, we are toast", and kicked butt. So I never count out a team due to ships. Just extreme examples of this MM...... It's not good, and should be fixed as soon as possible. I would also say that radar has become the most powerful tool a team can have (outside of a skilled CV), and should be assigned appropriately.

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39 minutes ago, Condor_Legion said:

Another cry a river thread.

Thank you for your well meaningful contribution to the subject at hand. A well thought response that supports your argument.

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I do agree it looks imbalanced and probably was but then again I won many battles where it didn't look like it was possible by the enemy team's lineup

 

Even though I don't think it's coming anytime soon maybe with enough tears they will change and tweak the mm to be a lot better I'm still hopeful

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30 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Luke, while I agree that the MM doesn't look fair, I've certainly seen teams that had MM that appeared "bad" for them win and teams that seemed to have a significant advantage over the other teams lose.  However, I'll also say that I think that those cases are the exception rather than the rule, which is why I'd still think that MM needs to be tweaked some more to try to smooth out some of these bad team composition mixes.

Just for starters, looking at the two teams' DDs, there's a, IMO, terrible mismatch.  For one thing, one team has 3 DDs and the other 4 DDs in a domination mode battle, which isn't really all that fair.  But what's worse is that the team with only 3 DDs actually has 1 t10 and 2 t8s vs a team with 1 t10, 2 t9s, and 1 t8.  If the two teams are going to have a mismatch in numbers of DDs, the team with fewer DDs should be the team with the slightly stronger (in terms of tier) DDs.  For example, perhaps it should really be more like: 1 t10, 2 t9s versus 1 t10, 1 t9, and 2 t8s.  This seems like a better balance.  Or even 1 t10 and 2 t9s versus 1 t10, 2 t9s, and 1 t8.  But the way that the teams actually were assigned has the team with fewer DDs at a double disadvantage, first in numbers and then in tiers of the DDs.

 

100% agree with this. 

Were the DDs in divisions?  Similarly were the Des Moines in a division?

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Looks like a fair fight to me.

Way too many questions before I would call it unfair.

Are all the ships fully upgraded?

Are the Rentals?

Who is driving them?

What time of day is it? Is it the weekend warriors?

 

And even then, one curse from the Great God RNG and you lose.

 

So I'll pass on blaming MM>

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Just now, Paulo2011 said:

Looks like a fair fight to me.

Way too many questions before I would call it unfair.

Are all the ships fully upgraded?

Are the Rentals?

Who is driving them?

What time of day is it? Is it the weekend warriors?

 

And even then, one curse from the Great God RNG and you lose.

 

So I'll pass on blaming MM>

A). I do not know.

B). No divisions.

C).You can't use rentals in randoms as far as I know.

D). 2:00 pm. Today.

If that looks fair to you, you should get your spectacles out, or work for WG. Because it isn't. 

I don't blame MM for losing, which we obviously did. I want WG to make a better balanced MM.

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3 minutes ago, Paulo2011 said:

Looks like a fair fight to me.

Way too many questions before I would call it unfair.

Are all the ships fully upgraded?

Are the Rentals?

Who is driving them?

What time of day is it? Is it the weekend warriors?

 

And even then, one curse from the Great God RNG and you lose.

 

So I'll pass on blaming MM>

Are they rentals?!?  I realize you were probably on a roll, but since there were 12 ships on each side this was obviously not a clan battle, which is the only place you can use rentals.

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Depending on how good the Gearing and Hindenburg is. All radar on one side is not as bad as people think it to be.

 

Annoying, YES! Match breaking? ehhhhh....... not really. 

 

With Zao and Hindenburg supporting forward Kagero and Gearing. The right side team's DD can all be easily dispatched in the first 5 min. After that, let them have all the radar they want. Des Moines're not going to push, and if they do, they have not the range to fight left side's capital ships and cruisers.

 

German DDs are memes, not worthy to consider anything significant in Random Battle.

Edited by NeutralState

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1 hour ago, LukeV said:

[Incoming Salt Alert]

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

In a random team game, which of these teams would you prefer to be on, in a 3-cap domination?

G. Kurfurst G.Kurfurst
Yamato Conqueror
Iowa Iowa
F. Der Grosse F. Der Grosse
Lion Alsace
Hindenburg Des Moines
Zao Des Moines
Neptune D. Donskoi
Baltimore Z-46
Ognevoi Z-46
Gearing Z-52
Kagero

Benson

They are good ships, but you just cannot compete. You are boxed out of the vital areas of the map with radars and sonars. Landing torps on any of the BB's or DD's while their sonars up is near impossible. You have little chance of having a competitive game. This also does not include the level of skill that random teams often produce.

This is not about winning or losing. It's about having a relatively level playing field. And, to me, it's easy to fix. I don't care about the German BB or DD's sonar, it's a nice perk. At the very least, cruisers with radar need to be weighted in the MM correctly, so teams get an equal amount.  3-1 Radars, and 3-0 sonar DD matches are not fun. How many times do we have to repeat this?

Instead they spend their resources designing an April Fools event that will last 1-2 weeks, and expect us to believe the space camo costs 8k gold.

THIS IS MADNESS. MADNESS.

Kids, if you're going to complain about the MM, ^this is the way to do it.

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I dont see anything wrong with that MM, I have seen worse. I hear a lot in game/posted that the game is not challenging enough its to easy. Now I am hearing MM is not fair... seriously ? I mean not to sound like the " old man" that says "kids get off my lawn," As a team you have to do what you have to do to secure the win. Matches are not going to be easy especially if there

  • more cruisers that can do everything or
  • a BB MO in queue . 

Chances are not going to be in your favor every time with MM, I dont think war gaming can do anything to make it "fair". IMO If we try to tweak MM, it will only fuel the yolo behavior ( that is Unfair).  IT will not improve team play that ultimately would've help to secure the win ( which should be the goal to begin with). GL and HF...MM sucks sometimes but its the price to pay to have Radar/Hydro/spotter plane capabilities.

 

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20 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

Depending on how good the Gearing and Hindenburg is. All radar on one side is not as bad as people think it to be.

 

Annoying, YES! Match breaking? ehhhhh....... not really. 

 

With Zao and Hindenburg supporting forward Kagero and Gearing. The right side team's DD can all be easily dispatched in the first 5 min. After that, let them have all the radar they want. Des Moines're not going to push, and if they do, they have not the range to fight left side's capital ships and cruisers.

 

German DDs are memes, not worthy to consider anything significant in Random Battle.

Bloody hell, armchair.

I also can come up with a wildly theoretical examples of where every ship on the weak team is played to its strengths, and beats the other.

However, in the real world, that team will win in a standard cap game 8 out of 10 times, if not more.

Why is this so hard to get on board with. At least they can pretend to listen, and try a new MM system on the Test server and see what happens. There is nothing to lose.

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